My Shulk woes...

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

So lately, I realized that I haven't been playing much Shulk despite him being one of my mains. So just the other day, I focused on playing Shulk with a friend in some good and intense 1 on 1s. Afterward though, I think I remembered why I hadn't been playing much Shulk in the first place. Maybe I was just having an off day, but I got wreckt in most matches and the matches that I DID win were a struggle and just left me exhausted afterward. It...just wasn't very fun. I kind of realized that the only times I really have fun playing Shulk are when I win and win by a considerable margin. Close matches and losses just leave me exhausted. With most of my other mains, even if they aren't exactly the best characters, I still enjoy playing with them whether I win or lose because they're just fun to play. The reason I main them is because I have some kind of attachment to the character or (and more importantly) I find them fun to play. But with Shulk, as time goes on, I'm just getting more frustrated with him. But I really don't wanna feel this way because I love Shulk and Xenoblade. I was overjoyed when he was announced as a playable character. But most of the time, I just feel like I'm either not playing him right or maybe he's just not my type of character. I've watched plenty of videos and it seems like most Shulk players do similar things that I do...they just do it better...somehow. I dunno. Most of the time when I watch character videos, I learn a few neat techniques that I adopt. But with Shulk vids, most of them just show me stuff I already know, but they just do it better than me. My main issue with Shulk are how slow his attacks are and how much lag they have afterward. I try to use his n-air and f-air as much as a I can, using his range to keep people away, but my opponents are pretty patient and they always manage to get in eventually. Against any character with faster attacks, I feel like Shulk can't do anything. And I know most Shulks switch to Jump when they're off the stage, but it's really difficult for me. I have pretty twitchy fingers and I usually end up Back Slashing to my death when I attempt to switch to Jump or I switch to Jump while I'm already falling to my doom and it activates too late.

I don't know. Shulk is a character I really don't wanna give up on, but he just isn't clicking with me. Are there any Shulk mains that just clicked with the character immediately or did you also have to put in a lot of effort just to play him decently?

 

[Aarrow]

Personally, I find the joy of playing Shulk much like the satisfaction of playing Roy in Melee. I'm not suggesting that Shulk is likewise unviable in his game's meta by any means. On the other hand, it's exciting to know that at a high level Shulk is actually a great character. What they do share is the satisfaction of knowing that every game you win, or every string you land came from you making the right decisions.You MADE that move safe- you MADE your opponent choose that option. To me, losing with Shulk isn't a matter of the character not being good enough, but a reminder that "I can still get that much better". I feel like a lot of characters lose that charm, simply because their "most optimal" playstyle is one that's polarizing and often simple. Characters like Shulk or Ike are true tests of the player, but this time Sakurai did us right by giving them the potential to compete with every character on the roster.
That's why you feel exhausted after playing the character - you're actively thinking (often a lot more than your opponent), deciding, and it's going to make you a better player if you look at it the right way. Shulk's Arts blatantly give the character every advantage in the game (range,mobility,damage out put, survivability, kill potential) and only suffers in one department - Frame Data. It's not about throwing out attacks to contest your opponent, or getting one read and trying to convert it into another 15 Uairs, it's about being a good player. It's about using your advantages to the fullest and actually outplaying your opponent at every step.
That's satisfying.
That's why I play Shulk.

 

[ExcaliburGuy]

Spot on, Aarrow. I find that when I do not remember to actively play Shulk's neutral game, my results are significantly worse. This can get REALLY frustrating, as when I play other characters I can rely on an easy, seemingly effective yet not optimal strategy (such as always going for grabs and dealing a hefty throw followup). Shulk, on the other hand, does not have such a strategy. He doesn't have a move like Needles, which controls the neutral with two button presses. Spamming FF nair with Shulk will get you punished 95% of the time at higher levels of play. This isn't to say Shulk is a bad character by any means. No, I still believe an optimal Shulk can go toe-to-toe with the game's best. He just doesn't have an easy button. In other words, he does not have a flowchart-like game plan. Playing Shulk optimally requires you to adapt and determine how to beat your opponent's game, rather than trying to beat your opponent's kit with your own. Thankfully, Monado Arts make this task much, MUCH more manageable. Speaking of Monado Arts, even though they are generally seen as a gimmick, Shulk is surprisingly one of the most honest characters in the game, much like Ike. When you beat an opponent as Shulk, it is because you truly outplayed them. Although getting rekt by not playing the neutral game correctly can be super discouraging, once it all finally comes together (by ADAPTING and THINKING), it is unbelievably satisfying. And, in my opinion, it's almost impossible to replicate this feeling while playing any other character. And that, my friend, is why I play Shulk.

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

Those are some well said reasons. I'm just wondering if a character based solely on adapting and outplaying equals a good time though. I feel like adapting to situations, reacting and outplaying your opponent is just something that should apply to any character. I play Little Mac with this play style in mind. I'm patient, I think, and I react (kinda like real Punch-Out). And I find Little Mac much more fun to play with because I feel, despite his huge weaknesses, he's still equipped with this play style in mind. With Shulk, it just doesn't feel that way. Often times, when I react and try to punish a mistake, I'm the one who gets punished simply because my opponent had a faster move. If I play offensively, I get punished. If I play defensively, keeping a distance with long range attacks, I just get punished EVENTUALLY. And I wanna believe that maybe I'm just not playing Shulk correctly, but if what you're saying is true in that Shulk doesn't have a specific way to play him, then that just makes it more difficult for me to figure out what to do with him.

I do have a few matches I've uploaded. Maybe you guys can take a look and tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Spoiler: Shulk Matches

 

[Aarrow]

Waiting and punishing things on reaction is a luxury given to Mac due to his speed, fast moves, and armor. If you want to wait for your opponent to do something you should at least do so in your shield so that they'll have to mix up with grab instead of hitting you with random dash attacks or UpB's like in the videos.
I notice you tend to spend a lot of time without any Arts on, and while I'm not saying it's necessary to have an Art active in every second of the match, when you spend 20/30 seconds without one you're basically losing the biggest part of your kit. It's essentially like playing Diddy Kong without any bananas or playing Toon Link without any projectiles.
As for not being able to punish your opponent or getting punished yourself: There are safe ways to use most every move in the game. It's all about choosing how you space them and more importantly when you use them. I feel that as a player you should focus first on spacing your aerials in a manner that is safe. You mentioned that you have watched other Shulks and I think that it would benefit you if continued doing so. Just make sure you figure out why they choose each move and space it in a particular way in each situation. I'd recommend watching Nicko's Shulk specifically.
But as for other players to watch: Darkwolf : at least in the technical aspect he uses his Arts better than anyone
Tremendo Dude: A really smart player you'll learn a lot about which moves to use in which situation by watching him.
Obviously there are other good Shulks with sets on Youtube, but these 3 really stand out to me personally.
It seems that you're looking at the game as two players trading hit for hit but that's not necessarily so. Smash has a lot of factors that you seem to be ignoring like stage control and shield pressure (especially the use of the shield - it's extremely useful in this game even in comparison to past iterations). Playing Little Mac is probably a big reason why these things aren't strong in your gameplay -because Little Mac is a character designed to always win in a format where you're just trading blows. As odd as it sounds, Mac benefits from throwing out attacks and in a lot of situations doesn't need to bother to use shield where other characters would. I definitely believe you should play any character you like, but if you're looking to widen your understanding of the game you'll have to learn to respect other characters' moves (either by shielding or choosing to not contest it with your own) in a way that Little Mac doesn't necessarily have to. I'm not saying that Little Mac doesn't require more game understanding, in fact, Sol is one of the players I respect the most. But to get better with Shulk or any other character you have to adjust to relying on different things. Hope you keep playing Shulk and learn to enjoy him. Good Luck

 

[Chief Hotsuin]

l agree with Aarrow about your problems. lt's more of a fundamental thing than anything else. Where you just do things and care only about damage and not dying. Very auto-pilot. lt's not like we all don't have that issue. l was just murdered CONSISTENTLY by another Shulk last night on FG of all places. l was almost crying over it, so obviously l don't need to be playing this game. But the point is that there's so much to think about at a high level that it gets really irritating and you'll want an easy way out. "l couldn't maintain stage control. Obviously, this is a bad match-up." "l can't deal with swordsmen, so l need someone with a Counter", good examples. lt could be the stage. FD can benefit some characters a lot more than others. Shulk can't run away or Jump-Shield camp nearly as much and guys like Pikachu and Shiek can control the pace of the match. When platforms come into play, you can get a lot more potential position advantage than you think. lf they are on top of a Battlefield platform, for example, your immense range can cover everything and keep someone above you.

More about positioning, when someone's at a ledge, they will usually always be at a disadvantage. They will be forced to somehow try to get back to center stage, a place where you are farther from the blast zone, which is good. At the ledge, there aren't as many options and less time for those options. Some characters get an easy way out like Diddy, Shiek, Pika, or Jump-Shulk by using their side b, down b, up b, and incredibly dumb jumps respectively to get back into a favorable position. And those can be hard-read and punished with a Back Slash or something.

While trying to recover, retaining your double jump until absolutely necessary is very important, especially when you're playing someone with a pretty weak recovery like Shulk (l mean, no auto-snap much of the time, can get hit out of...) or Mac (obvious weakness is obvious). You can use your double jump early if your opponent goes low or otherwise thinks you're going to recover low, or normally. Watching and playing Melee or PM gives a pretty good idea of how to play offstage, imo.

Overall, l think you're incredibly twitchy. You'll press buttons whenever someone gets close, usually a roll. PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF THE BIONIS, DON'T DO THIS. ESPECIALLY WITH SHULK. Besides roll, which gets incredibly obvious when used like this anyway, you have very slow options to combat an opponent once they get close, so you need to make sure they don't put you in that situation. Shulk's nair, fair, and dtilt excel at this, as long as you space it right. Basically, with aerials, don't move forward while using them as much, and you're solid for most cases. Dtilt is really fast for it's range. When you feel like you need to get out quick, that's because the opponent is pressuring you to see what you'll do and punish it. So, if your next action will, most likely, be countered, what do you do?

Nothing, generally. Maybe shield some. lf you can force yourself to do this, to not roll or panic, you'll automatically have much more stage presence and feel a lot more confident. Just don't be crazy.

Small tip, if someone hits your shield and you know you can hit them, jump out of your shield and quickly Airslash. l mean so fast that you won't see yourself jump. That's an Airslash out of shield, and can set up for a kill. Very useful to fight back.

Just, play more. Use who you think you'll enjoy and don't force anything. lf you like a character, great. Play him/her/it/them. lf not, you shouldn't try to force it just because you liked seeing Ryu kill with uptilt-Shoru at 80%. lt's fun as hell to get it, but don't beat yourself up over it if you don't.

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

Well, thank you guys for the advice. I guess I do just need to practice more and break some general bad habits like rolling too much and twitch-based reactions. They're just very difficult habits to break. In situations when I feel like I'm in trouble, it's hard to think about the situation so quickly when any second my opponent could kill me.

 

[MonadoMan]

Personally, I find the joy of playing Shulk much like the satisfaction of playing Roy in Melee. I'm not suggesting that Shulk is likewise unviable in his game's meta by any means. On the other hand, it's exciting to know that at a high level Shulk is actually a great character. What they do share is the satisfaction of knowing that every game you win, or every string you land came from you making the right decisions.You MADE that move safe- you MADE your opponent choose that option. To me, losing with Shulk isn't a matter of the character not being good enough, but a reminder that "I can still get that much better". I feel like a lot of characters lose that charm, simply because their "most optimal" playstyle is one that's polarizing and often simple. Characters like Shulk or Ike are true tests of the player, but this time Sakurai did us right by giving them the potential to compete with every character on the roster.
That's why you feel exhausted after playing the character - you're actively thinking (often a lot more than your opponent), deciding, and it's going to make you a better player if you look at it the right way. Shulk's Arts blatantly give the character every advantage in the game (range,mobility,damage out put, survivability, kill potential) and only suffers in one department - Frame Data. It's not about throwing out attacks to contest your opponent, or getting one read and trying to convert it into another 15 Uairs, it's about being a good player. It's about using your advantages to the fullest and actually outplaying your opponent at every step.
That's satisfying.
That's why I play Shulk.

I never really thought of it that way but I agree. Sadly like OP, or anyone for that matter, playing on auto-pilot is a LOT easier than constantly thinking. Of course, if you're in competitive you won't auto-pilot no matter who you're playing but you get the idea. With Shulk you have to constantly adapt to the situation and opponent.

 

[Zilexion]

I hope he gets buffed a bit in Smash Switch if that's a reality. No amount of realistic buffs would really make him a high tier character, but it'd still be nice to see him used in tournaments more often.