My issue with friends coming over for smash

[horizons889]

My intention for this thread is to simply have a dialogue on this matter. If you wan't to share your experiences, either if its the same as mine, or if it isn't please provide input. These people are usually either brand new to smash or friends to just come over to play to have fun. Usually I will start it up as a 1v1, 2 stock, no items, on all legal stages. From final destination, to castle siege, I don't care, as long as it's not an annoying map with items that will hinder the fighting aspect of this game. Often, shortly after we do a few 1v1's they will try to change the rules/maps to their own suggestions (which I will allow, I'm a nice guy after all). This will include most items, incredibly annoying stages (the donkey kong one for example...) and possibly even the inclusion of a CPU to play with us.
Now look, let me first establish something. I'm pretty new to this game myself, only have been playing for over a month. I understand the notion of having fun with complete randomness and unbalanced game play. This detracts from what smash is all about. Personally, when I started playing smash from the get-go, I wanted to stick to the standard no items/legal stages. My friend was over and we had hours of enjoyment. I'm not scolding or necessarily disagreeing with my friends decisions on what they want to play. But the bottom line is, at it's longevity, core, and depth that this game provides is due to it's fighting aspect. Items and non legal stages obviously detract from this. So what I do is I try to explain to them what I just said above. They usually don't care, and keep going with the same settings.
Now at the same time, I myself am not having that much fun. It kind of takes everything I've learned from this game so far and flushes it down the toilet. I start off a game as Ness for example, already spacing with my n-air, etc. then quickly die to a random item in my face. So this forces me to play the item-randomness game which... I'm not a fan of. But don't get me wrong, I totally understand why items are in the game and why my friends may prefer to use them. It appeals to the masses and it's definitely a necessary addition to have in all smash games. A "party" aspect. Yeah, it's mindless fun but how long can that fun last? Finally, to close this off I want to note something important: Believe it or not, this isn't a complaint thread. I understand why my friends enjoy the items and non legal stage settings. I'm here to share my experiences and to see if others have this same frustration. It's unfortunate coming into a game with two different mind sets that will conflict with one another.

 

[ccthirteen]

I can see where you're coming from. I play smash competitively with my group, but we will only turn on items for the point of seeing a new DLC characters final smash a couple of times. After that, it's back to tourney settings.

 

[Egg.]

I never play super seriously against friends unless it's some situation where we're actually at a tournament and practicing for our matches. I think it's okay to take some time to casually play smash every once in a while - I find myself getting burned out if I do nothing but 2-3 stock 1v1s on tourney legal stages every time, but that's just me.

If you still want to play serious and really can't get through to your friends, try to take that time to practice some more situational/flashy combos that you'd never do in a serious game because they're too risky. I always go really deep off-stage, sometimes to the point of killing myself, just to get the meteor/gimp in those kinds of matches. Games with items on are also a good opportunity to practice your item management, stuff like grabbing items out of the air with grab/airdodge and making use of your item without letting it get into your opponent's hands. That kind of skill is situational, but can be useful to practice for when you go up against item-focused characters like Diddy and Peach.

 

[Zink Imp]

To me, Smash is most fun with free for all settings. All items, all stages, etc. I also enjoy time and coin matches, but all of my friends only prefer stock.

Unfortunately I have one friend that is very competitive in the game. He likes his tournament matches. Which is fine, but he will keep with that mindset even when we play with 5+ other people. He ruins the game for us, and for himself. He gets mad very quickly and drops out. I try to avoid playing Smash when he's around, but he actually insists on it.

 

[IndigoSSB]

It's just a matter of difference in interest. You want to play competitive matches, your friends want to play the game just like any other game: casually. There's nothing you can do about it, the game is a lot more fun with items if you don't play competitively. Heck, I play items with my friends every once in a while to take a break. I suggest going to your local Smash scene and making friends that want to spar there. There's always the online option too.

Btw this is why I never play Smash at parties, I always look like a tryhard lol.

 

[KirbCider]

First off, I want to say I'm not really a competitive player and do not know all the Tournament style rules. I tend to stick with For Glory rules if anything with the occasional non-omega Stage here and there just for some variety. Otherwise it's always Stock and no items.

In any case, I tend to kinda face the opposite situation. I have two friends who barely play Smash and are extremely new to it. They have interest in it and ask to play it on occasion; however they prefer moderately sized Stages with no items. It seems as if items "Confuses" one of them a lot to the point they have no idea whats going on and tend to claim that large stages makes them unable to keep track of their character. I'm perfectly okay with this since I understand they are new and I don't typically play with items anyways.

If anything I'll put the SmashBall on for them in hopes it'll help them out and I'll also put the Stage Selection on "Turns" so everybody chooses what they want, Omega or not. So I'm mostly always in control while trying to keep everyone happy as well. It's because of this that I feel even if I did play Competitively I wouldn't have a problem with these two at all since we kind of already do Stock and no items.

We've even done some Time matches just to mix things up. When I'm with friends the most important thing is having fun anyways, right?

I guess I can't really share your frustrations that much due to the fact I don't play Competitively maybe; however I will say that when you are with friends the important thing is to always have fun. Sometimes you have to bend the rules a little to make everyone happy even if it doesn't make you happy. I wouldn't say doing what they want flushes everything you learned down the drain as that seems a little like an exaggeration. My friends have never made me play worse or forget anything. If I ever did get sloppy it would be my own fault.

 

[11wildy]

I'd suggest putting items on low, then they aren't as controlling over how the game goes, but they will still be there. And taking turns in choosing a stage is always a good idea. Then you know that in every so many games, you can choose ANY stage you like yourself and have a good time on it .

 

[JokeOnTheInternet]

I'm the only one with a Wii U so me and my friends sometimes come over and play there. We also play PM at my friend's house but usually don't do 1v1's

 

[C3CC]

I have a large group of friends and gathering in my house to play Smash is one of our favorite activities. We sometimes even mix it with some alcohol and lots of fun is had. Normally, my friends who are really into the game like me have "serious" matches with 3 stocks, no items, legal/Omega stages. When our friends who don't play very well want to join in, we switch to items so they also get a chance to win, and we change the settings to Time. It's boring for a newbie to have to wait until all the experts are dead to play again, you know.

The results are hilarious, especially when everyone is kind of tipsy/drunk. The worst of us may end up winning a match or two and everyone will be almost literally rolling on the floor laughing. That's what I think it's great about Smash: it can perfectly appeal to both groups. I see it as both a fighting and party game. I love it

 

[Lowerfuzzball]

I'm someone who enjoys the competitive scene in smash, and prefer competitive rules, but when I'm playing with my friends who aren't into that, its about having fun. I'm not training or trying to win, I'm just messing around.

Its kind of annoying to casual people when you start using competitive terms and have an elitist attitude about it,and only play one way. Just learn to have fun with your friends, get some beer or something, and mess around. For example, if they want to play an "illegal stage" who cares? The randomness can be fun.

 

[Andinus]

Now look, let me first establish something. I'm pretty new to this game myself, only have been playing for over a month. I understand the notion of having fun with complete randomness and unbalanced game play. This detracts from what smash is all about.

Umm, not trying to detract too much from the point of this thread but the randomness, and having a fun fighting game that anyone can pick up and play (and win) is exactly what Smash is all about. This is the premise under which Masahiro Sakurai created the series. The competitive fighting scene and all its "rules" on the other hand is a fan made phenomenon that basically started with Melee. Now the creators have in fact picked up on this and added features to cater to the competitive style like 1v1 matches being possible online, but the true form of what smash is all about is 4 on 4 crazy action, with items and all stages in the mix.

 

[Wintropy]

If nothing else, playing with friends for fun can be very cathartic. When we were wrapping up our most recent local tournament, we got a bunch of people together and just played silly eight-player matches on stages we'd normally never get to play, and it was great. Eight-player on Mario Maker is tons of fun after a hard day's competitive Smash!

We even did eight-way Little Mac dittos on Peach's Castle 64 and Ganondorf dittos on Temple. It's a good way to just kick back and relieve stress, especially when you know everybody there is just playing to have a good time.

 

[Andinus]

If nothing else, playing with friends for fun can be very cathartic. When we were wrapping up our most recent local tournament, we got a bunch of people together and just played silly eight-player matches on stages we'd normally never get to play, and it was great. Eight-player on Mario Maker is tons of fun after a hard day's competitive Smash!

We even did eight-way Little Mac dittos on Peach's Castle 64 and Ganondorf dittos on Temple. It's a good way to just kick back and relieve stress, especially when you know everybody there is just playing to have a good time.

I have to agree with this in some respects, while don't consider myself a competitive player since I've never bothered to go to any live tournaments, playing 1v1 matches online gets tiring. My brain can only take it for like up to an hour at a time, and then it starts to feel like a chore. So I often just play for fun team battle, kick back with some beers, take it seriously, but not at the same time.. The game just feels more like recreation that way, and for me, that's what it needs to be.

 

[FamilyTeam]

The friends I usually play Smash with are all into competitive, so I don't have that issue. But even then, we do sometimes play outside competitive rules just for a few laughs, like playing on a weird stage (Mario Maker, Big Battlefield, Hyrule Castle, whatever) on a time match with four players on free for all. It's crazy, and like people said before me, it's a good way to chill after some heated competitive battles. We very rarely turn items on, though, and when we do, it's often just the Smash Ball or the Pokeball.

 

[jarbAin]

I understand what you mean, and I have same kinds of friends, who just play for fun. Still, I think that the fun and casual aspects are as important as the fighting. I am going to improve in smash, which is why i usually would like to play with competitive rules, but my friends really don't like them. I am just afraid that I will become too serious for them. That is why it's important to remember that smash all about fun. it's good that my friends occasionally give me a reminder of that how much fun it sometimes can be to take the tryhard pants off and just mess around, even if I am going to be a bit more competitive than them.

 

[CrazyPerson]

Part of what makes smash great is it's simplicity to pick up... you can pick up a character and you can do all of his/her moves... there are advanced things yes, but it's not like say a street fighter where you need to get online to learn button/stick combos just to do some of there basic specials. ( is the obvious exception here.)

Items are a great element of the party game aspect. Anyone can grab that master ball and suddenly do this amazing attack. It adds the randomness a well when something drops that is powerful and completely changes everyone's objective. (If I try to gimp the other guy is going to get the smash ball... That smart bomb is going to really up my damage if I don't get it first. NO YOU MAY NOT HAVE THAT SPECIAL FLAG!!!).

Imo items are fun... but you got to be willing to embrace the chaos and have fun.. laugh at those moments when you yell "REALLY!!!!" because you had them on the ropes and that fairy spawned where only they could get it... etc. Can't approach it whit the same who's the best mentality that the competitive rules strive for.

We have different rule sets depending on who is playing...

With a certain relative:

Items off, random stage switch set to anything that has ever been tournament legal. Best of 3. Round 1, random stage. Round 2 & 3 loser of previous set. Winner switches characters...

This let's us do some training while getting used to how moves work on different opponents.

When we have certian 4 people will will do something similar with teams rotating after every match.

Other times... we are doing FFA 1 with items on, followed by one with them off... sometimes winners need to switch to give others a chance to beat us (us being the 3 who have the most experience) after our mains and secondaries are done. Items on matches we tend to be in more mess around mode... I am desperately trrying to get a bowserside while someone really wants that jigglypuff rest, etc.

There are different ways to play smash... IMO in groups of players of drastically different skill the chaotic party ways are a better idea.

 

[Hyruleslink]

1v1 all the time gets pretty boring in my opinion. It's fun like once or twice a year for a tourney, but I'd rather get a large group together at my house and play some 4 player. 8 player is fun too, but admittedly a little chaotic. But most nights people take breaks or come and go so it mixes up the player count pretty well.

 

[FightingPorygonTeam]

Hm, I think if you like competitive rules more, it's a good idea to look for players on this site. In my experience, most smashers you meet online are better on average and don't like the casual rules that much (except for the occasional giggle maybe). Against your friends, you can go for stylish kills, or use items to make even better combos. Maybe if you play more often with them, they will be more interested into playing your way.

Even though I think I'm somewhat good at the game, I prefer playing Free For All with items (though not all of them), and against any skill level of players (as long as they understand the basic gameplay). The items I put on are usually explosives, bumpers and the wind blower, as well as crates with wheels. For some reason, playing with items on vs skilled people is even more fun to me, because you can create sick combos with it. In that style of play, I don't care about winning, I just want to do style things and laugh. It's also fun to invent new game modes with custom stages and a set combination of items.

In my opinion, the game has more depth as a party game than as a competitive game, but even the fact that it can be played both ways is absolutely amazing. Just typing this made me realize it.

 

[holymario]

I'm someone who enjoys the competitive scene in smash, and prefer competitive rules, but when I'm playing with my friends who aren't into that, its about having fun. I'm not training or trying to win, I'm just messing around.

Its kind of annoying to casual people when you start using competitive terms and have an elitist attitude about it,and only play one way. Just learn to have fun with your friends, get some beer or something, and mess around. For example, if they want to play an "illegal stage" who cares? The randomness can be fun.

This can be so true ... After 2 weeks of playing with items and playing all stages we went on playing with competetive rules. But I have to say the most remarkable moments were with items on or on illegal stages. Like on Day 1 on the new Mario Kart 8 Stage. 3 player free for all, one of my friends got launched upwards just as the ceiling popped up. He got hit against it like 4 or 5 times. Then a while later ( still survived with 150% for a minute^^' ) he finally couldn't recover with Zelda anymore and was under the stage in free fall and just as he was about to hit the blast zone (wasn't even visible anymore) moveable platform comes up again, gently lifting him to us like he just called the stage to save him that moment. Me and my buddy were just like: OH C'MON! Die already...." but it was so much fun

 

[Phenomiracle]

I've got three types of friends/family to play Smash with, the relatively competitive ones (whose skill levels are close to mine), the casual-competitive ones who think they're hot **** coming over from Brawl (knowing nothing about Smash 4), and the casuals who remember Smash from their childhood and just want to mess around.

Just like real life, mate. I adjust my personality/playstyle to match whomever I'm playing with/against.

I remember one time at a friend's apartment, I played this guy who frequently watchies tournaments and whatnot but doesn't play much Smash himself. At one point during the match, he charged an Fsmash from half the stage's distance. Just to have some fun, I ran right into his attack and got KO'ed. I jumped up and all over him acting like it was the hypest thing ever. All the guys who were watching had a laugh. I bring it up everytime I see him, telling him that he's better than me. Good stuff.

 

[Khao]

I not really a competitive player and I still dislike those things, haha.

I just feel like items and crazy stages take away from the appeal of the wide variety of playable characters. Why bother choosing your favorite character if in the end the outcome will be affected by items and stages that mostly work the same for every character?

I love free for all matches, though. Even 8 player. I just dislike things that work outside of the characters capabilities, cause they just take away from any feature that makes them unique.

But still, even if I prefer itemless fights and not-ridiculous stages, I don't actually hate them, and it is pretty fun to change things around every now and them. If I'm playing with friends and they want items, they'll get items.

Also, no matter the playstyle, I just don't get time. I just don't think it's as good a mode as stock and I don't understand why's it even the default mode.

 

[Foxus]

My intention for this thread is to simply have a dialogue on this matter. If you wan't to share your experiences, either if its the same as mine, or if it isn't please provide input. These people are usually either brand new to smash or friends to just come over to play to have fun. Usually I will start it up as a 1v1, 2 stock, no items, on all legal stages. From final destination, to castle siege, I don't care, as long as it's not an annoying map with items that will hinder the fighting aspect of this game. Often, shortly after we do a few 1v1's they will try to change the rules/maps to their own suggestions (which I will allow, I'm a nice guy after all). This will include most items, incredibly annoying stages (the donkey kong one for example...) and possibly even the inclusion of a CPU to play with us.
Now look, let me first establish something. I'm pretty new to this game myself, only have been playing for over a month. I understand the notion of having fun with complete randomness and unbalanced game play. This detracts from what smash is all about. Personally, when I started playing smash from the get-go, I wanted to stick to the standard no items/legal stages. My friend was over and we had hours of enjoyment. I'm not scolding or necessarily disagreeing with my friends decisions on what they want to play. But the bottom line is, at it's longevity, core, and depth that this game provides is due to it's fighting aspect. Items and non legal stages obviously detract from this. So what I do is I try to explain to them what I just said above. They usually don't care, and keep going with the same settings.
Now at the same time, I myself am not having that much fun. It kind of takes everything I've learned from this game so far and flushes it down the toilet. I start off a game as Ness for example, already spacing with my n-air, etc. then quickly die to a random item in my face. So this forces me to play the item-randomness game which... I'm not a fan of. But don't get me wrong, I totally understand why items are in the game and why my friends may prefer to use them. It appeals to the masses and it's definitely a necessary addition to have in all smash games. A "party" aspect. Yeah, it's mindless fun but how long can that fun last? Finally, to close this off I want to note something important: Believe it or not, this isn't a complaint thread. I understand why my friends enjoy the items and non legal stage settings. I'm here to share my experiences and to see if others have this same frustration. It's unfortunate coming into a game with two different mind sets that will conflict with one another.

I can understand the uncertainty if you don't feel confident in your abilities. Just make sure this is made well known, maybe do a couple stock matches on illegal courses beforehand to warm up, over getting in a pool of cold water all at once (metaphorically).

 

[InfinitySoul]

Serious games are the only things that truly makes me enjoy truly the game.
Non competitive games are funny but I get sick more quickly, and overall it doesn't bring me the sensation and the clutch games I feel when there is something on the line.
But as I am still a begginner player, I can use those fun sessions to train mechanics and reflexes (short hop, using C stick for aerial...)

But the topic was very interesting because everybody has his own feeling about fun and competitive play. Smash, as far as I know is the only fighting game that allows this and that is something awesome !

 

[Treedot]

I used to play with items in Smash 64 and Melee before I knew that these games had a competitive scene. Now that I play competitively, items seem ridiculous, but are still kinda fun sometimes for new players who are just trying to figure out where the A button is.

However, my girlfriend, who is a complete newbie to Smash, refuses to play anything but tournament rules when we play together. She plays Kirby and Toon Link and we have a great time!