The Legend Of Zelda
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2007
- Messages
- 42
UPDATED AGAIN
I've settled on 34 starting characters, and an additional 18 unlockables for a full deck of 52 Nintendo characters. This count does not include third-party guest stars. As that is pure unexplored territory for the Smash Bros. series, I have not made any final guesses as to the amount of these characters included, but I have included a list of those I would most like to see joining the all-Nintendo roster. Although I've included ten third-party suggestions, four or more will probably be too much to hope for. That said, pick your favorites from the batch I've offered.
Like many others, I decided to leave behind Melee fighters Young Link, Dr. Mario, and Pichu. I don't object to their appearance outright, but I do think they'd come as much more innovative additions - if included at all - as separate modes of play for their 'parent' characters. Characters like Sheik, the Pokémon Trainer, and Zero Suit Samus illustrate the potential for creative answers to questions like these.
New propositions such as Paper Mario and Cel-Shaded Link, on the other hand, would come as much cooler stage concepts than characters. When playing in the Paper Mario stage, or in The Wind Waker stage, all characters are magically animated in a corresponding way, akin to the way all characters appeared flat while fighting in Melee's Game & Watch stage.
And now for the roster:
1. Mario
2. Luigi: I think they may stick with tradition here and make him unlockable, but I'd just as soon have him as a starter.
3. Bowser
4. Peach
5. Toad: I know Peach is still using him as a living shield, and that this probably hurts his chances. But, I really want to see him here, and I'll use the fact that there's so many Toads out there to defend this selection. Imagine Peach blocking one of Toad's attacks with another Toad. I almost went unlockable for him too.
6. Pikachu
7. Jigglypuff: The same note about unlockability here as with Luigi, although this was the returning character I was closest to leaving off my list altogether. If it weren't for the unique moveset I would probably have done so... with so many Pokémon out there, choosing Jigglypuff is hard to otherwise justify.
8. Mewtwo: He could have been a contender. I think with a more balanced moveset, he could easily have been a Melee favorite. Fortunately, Brawl will allow us to set everything right.
9. Pokémon Trainer
10. Link
11. Zelda
12. Ganondorf: An inspired choice in Melee; the best of the clones. Even so, I'd do more to individualize his moveset.
13. Fox
14. Falco: Fear not. Although the criticisms here are obvious, they are also easily avoided. I was happy to see him in Melee even with Fox's moveset; here he could become even more fully realized with a moveset of his own.
15. Krystal: Several advantages: she's female, easy to design uniquely, and represents the more recent entries in the StarFox series.
16. Donkey Kong
17. Diddy Kong
18. Dixie Kong: Sure, it might seem like Kong overkill. But her moveset could as easily be as different from the other two as theirs are to each other's, strong female characters are in high demand, and the Donkey Kong series deserves the extra representation.
19. Marth: Not to bring him back would first be a waste of one of Brawl's best movesets, and I also think he's the one character in the series' history that can best represent Fire Emblem as a whole.
20. Roy: He may seem pretty likely to get axed, but I'd just as soon have him stick around. With a new moveset, of course.
21. Ike
22. Kirby
23. Meta Knight
24. Ness: There's been talk of perhaps ousting him in favor of Lucas. While I would bring Lucas onboard, it's not at the expense of former favorite Ness.
25. Lucas: This makes for a pair of psionic-powered boys. Too much? I don't think so. Why not? Because while they would share a common theme, their movesets would scarcely need to overlap. It rounds out EarthBound's roster and emphasizes that the games aren't simply interchangable.
26. Samus
27. Yoshi
28. Captain Falcon: I don't think there's really any doubt here.
29. Wario
30. Ice Climbers
31. Mr. Game & Watch: He's been all but confirmed, much to my relief. Although he may not have been one of Melee's best fighters, he was undoubtedly one of its most unique. Some slight powering up, and he'll be right there with the best of them.
32. Animal Crosser: Animal Crossing is bound to have a representative, and this choice is probably best now that we've seen Nook and a few others in the backgrounds of stages. We've seen Animal Crossers too, but given their generic nature, they could easily be playable as well.
33. Pit
34. Captain Olimar: The obvious obstacle here is the character's size, but I think a conceit could be made in order to represent one of Nintendo's most creative recent franchises.
And that concludes the starting lineup. If it's even in the ballpark, it means we've got about 15 more characters to be revealed on the Dojo before 3 December (or 22 November). A lot to look forward to!
And now for the juiciest part, the unlockables:
35. Geno: Sure, he's technically owned by Square, but he's a Mario character through and through, so I'm not including him with the third-party characters.
36. Pokémon Ranger: Like Pokémon Trainer, she would send out a few Pokémon to do her fighting for her. This offers a showcase for some Pokémon from latter generations without taking up an equal number of spots on the roster, and at the same time promotes one of the Pokémon series' most recent installments. Entei, Rayquaza, and Manaphy, for instance, would serve as a nice antithesis to the Trainer's set.
37. Tingle: Controversial selection, maybe, but remember this game is being made for a Japanese audience as well as an American one, and his popularity in Japan probably makes him the likeliest candidate for a fourth Zelda representative.
38. Wolf: The easiest argument here is that he'd be a Fox clone, but why should that be? Fox's moveset was conjured up for the original Smash Bros. as he'd never fought outside his Arwing before. When conjuring up a moveset for Fox's perennial nemesis, who says they need to bear any similarity?
39. K. Rool: Donkey Kong Country's constant menace. K. Rool would have to be on the shortlist for villains worthy of inclusion here.
40. Eirika: A female Lord and central character of Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones. Why take her over Micaiah? Ike already represents that strand of the Fire Emblem series; Eirika instead emphasizes the handheld titles.
41. King Dedede: Rounds out Kirby's main cast of characters. Should provide interesting gameplay, and as the character's original creator, Sakurai's just the man to deliver it.
42. Claus: I think EarthBound's big break has yet to come. Fleshing out the series' representation in Brawl could be just the thing to raise its profile, and Claus provides the perfect counterpoint to the psionic abilities of Ness and Lucas.
43. Ridley: The best choice for a new Metroid representative. Sure, Dark Samus would be cool, and easier to design, but Ridley would be so much cooler.
44. Boshi: As long as we're negotiating Geno, we might as well get a counterpart for Yoshi out of the deal. All those cool moves that Yoshi could have had and didn't could show themselves here.
45. Black Shadow: Since Samurai Goroh's deconfirmation, Black Shadow's been my choice for a new F-Zero character, and looking back I think he's probably an even better one than Samurai Goroh was after all.
46. Waluigi: I'm sure there were all sorts of zany moves they thought up for Wario, and that not all of them could make it into his moveset. Well, here's the perfect dumping ground.
47. Balloon Fighter: A couple retro selections are almost mandatory. He'd present an awfully unique moveset, I think, and they probably got a headstart developing one with Melee. From what I understand, Balloon Fighter and Excitebiker were the options they were considering before finally deciding on the Ice Climbers.
48. Ray: Custom Robo has recently expanded out of Japan into one of Nintendo's more recent worldwide successes. Ray in his various incarnations in almost always a core presence in the series.
49. Excitebiker: Turning a guy on a bike into a fighter would definitely pose some design difficulty, but if handled properly could present a truly unique fighter.
50. Isaac: Golden Sun is another of Nintendo's most recent major successes. Isaac is the most logical representative.
51. Sukapon: Obscure. Almost too obscure. But he's the main character from Nintendo's very first foray into the fighting genre, Joy Mech Fight, and this along with his unique design has made him a favorite as far as Japan-only characters are concerned.
52. Stafy: I think Melee set a good precedent with introducing the rest of the world to a Japan-only franchise with the Fire Emblem characters. Stafy is probably the safest bet for repeating this success.
53. Little Mac: Wasn't he born for this? He's similar to Pit in that he represents one of Nintendo's early franchise successes that for whatever reason fell by the wayside before long. It'd be great to see a triumphant return from both of them.
54. Andy: The Nintendo Wars representative. Having been the main character in the Advance Wars titles, he's got appeal in both Japanese and worldwide markets, unlike characters from previous entries in the series.
Third-party participants (Once again, these are a la carte offerings, roughly in order of how likely I believe their inclusion to be. Although I've made ten suggestions, I wouldn't hope for more than three or four of these to actually appear):
Snake
Sonic (Sega): It's almost got to happen, hasn't it? Mario's newly-reconciled chief third-party rival.
Mega Man (Capcom): Here's one with a long history of success on Nintendo systems, and one of Captain N's right-hand men. Few third-party characters have endured as well as Mega Man.
Simon Belmont (Konami): I've tried to limit myself to one character per developer, but I'd take Simon over Snake any day, and I halfheartedly defend this choice with the fact that it was Konami who originally convinced Nintendo to open their roster to third-party guest stars.
Bomberman (Hudson): He's another one with a long history on Nintendo consoles, even having teamed up with Wario before.
Erdrick (Enix): The hero from Dragon Quest, one of early Nintendo's greatest franchise successes, since fallen from public consciousness. A spot here would be a tribute to one of the most important works of the formative years of the RPG genre.
Moogle (Square): Moogles are able to represent the Final Fantasy series as a whole, rather than just one entry, and that's a distinction afforded few characters in its history.
Pac-Man (Namco): One of the few characters in the industry that could rival even Mario in recognizability. If that's not enough for you, he's faced off with Mario before, in Mario Kart's arcade incarnation. There's a fun fact for you.
Nightmare (Namco): Of all the fighting games out there, I think the Soul series would probably lend itself best to the Smash Bros. format, and as the games' central character, Nightmare is the best contender.
Banjo-Kazooie (Rare): Although Nintendo-Rare relations may be strained these days, the gameplay for these two would be awesome. He'd also fit in easily with this crowd, having gotten his start in Diddy Kong Racing.
Well... that's all, folks. What do you think?
TLOZ
I've settled on 34 starting characters, and an additional 18 unlockables for a full deck of 52 Nintendo characters. This count does not include third-party guest stars. As that is pure unexplored territory for the Smash Bros. series, I have not made any final guesses as to the amount of these characters included, but I have included a list of those I would most like to see joining the all-Nintendo roster. Although I've included ten third-party suggestions, four or more will probably be too much to hope for. That said, pick your favorites from the batch I've offered.
Like many others, I decided to leave behind Melee fighters Young Link, Dr. Mario, and Pichu. I don't object to their appearance outright, but I do think they'd come as much more innovative additions - if included at all - as separate modes of play for their 'parent' characters. Characters like Sheik, the Pokémon Trainer, and Zero Suit Samus illustrate the potential for creative answers to questions like these.
New propositions such as Paper Mario and Cel-Shaded Link, on the other hand, would come as much cooler stage concepts than characters. When playing in the Paper Mario stage, or in The Wind Waker stage, all characters are magically animated in a corresponding way, akin to the way all characters appeared flat while fighting in Melee's Game & Watch stage.
And now for the roster:
1. Mario
2. Luigi: I think they may stick with tradition here and make him unlockable, but I'd just as soon have him as a starter.
3. Bowser
4. Peach
5. Toad: I know Peach is still using him as a living shield, and that this probably hurts his chances. But, I really want to see him here, and I'll use the fact that there's so many Toads out there to defend this selection. Imagine Peach blocking one of Toad's attacks with another Toad. I almost went unlockable for him too.
6. Pikachu
7. Jigglypuff: The same note about unlockability here as with Luigi, although this was the returning character I was closest to leaving off my list altogether. If it weren't for the unique moveset I would probably have done so... with so many Pokémon out there, choosing Jigglypuff is hard to otherwise justify.
8. Mewtwo: He could have been a contender. I think with a more balanced moveset, he could easily have been a Melee favorite. Fortunately, Brawl will allow us to set everything right.
9. Pokémon Trainer
10. Link
11. Zelda
12. Ganondorf: An inspired choice in Melee; the best of the clones. Even so, I'd do more to individualize his moveset.
13. Fox
14. Falco: Fear not. Although the criticisms here are obvious, they are also easily avoided. I was happy to see him in Melee even with Fox's moveset; here he could become even more fully realized with a moveset of his own.
15. Krystal: Several advantages: she's female, easy to design uniquely, and represents the more recent entries in the StarFox series.
16. Donkey Kong
17. Diddy Kong
18. Dixie Kong: Sure, it might seem like Kong overkill. But her moveset could as easily be as different from the other two as theirs are to each other's, strong female characters are in high demand, and the Donkey Kong series deserves the extra representation.
19. Marth: Not to bring him back would first be a waste of one of Brawl's best movesets, and I also think he's the one character in the series' history that can best represent Fire Emblem as a whole.
20. Roy: He may seem pretty likely to get axed, but I'd just as soon have him stick around. With a new moveset, of course.
21. Ike
22. Kirby
23. Meta Knight
24. Ness: There's been talk of perhaps ousting him in favor of Lucas. While I would bring Lucas onboard, it's not at the expense of former favorite Ness.
25. Lucas: This makes for a pair of psionic-powered boys. Too much? I don't think so. Why not? Because while they would share a common theme, their movesets would scarcely need to overlap. It rounds out EarthBound's roster and emphasizes that the games aren't simply interchangable.
26. Samus
27. Yoshi
28. Captain Falcon: I don't think there's really any doubt here.
29. Wario
30. Ice Climbers
31. Mr. Game & Watch: He's been all but confirmed, much to my relief. Although he may not have been one of Melee's best fighters, he was undoubtedly one of its most unique. Some slight powering up, and he'll be right there with the best of them.
32. Animal Crosser: Animal Crossing is bound to have a representative, and this choice is probably best now that we've seen Nook and a few others in the backgrounds of stages. We've seen Animal Crossers too, but given their generic nature, they could easily be playable as well.
33. Pit
34. Captain Olimar: The obvious obstacle here is the character's size, but I think a conceit could be made in order to represent one of Nintendo's most creative recent franchises.
And that concludes the starting lineup. If it's even in the ballpark, it means we've got about 15 more characters to be revealed on the Dojo before 3 December (or 22 November). A lot to look forward to!
And now for the juiciest part, the unlockables:
35. Geno: Sure, he's technically owned by Square, but he's a Mario character through and through, so I'm not including him with the third-party characters.
36. Pokémon Ranger: Like Pokémon Trainer, she would send out a few Pokémon to do her fighting for her. This offers a showcase for some Pokémon from latter generations without taking up an equal number of spots on the roster, and at the same time promotes one of the Pokémon series' most recent installments. Entei, Rayquaza, and Manaphy, for instance, would serve as a nice antithesis to the Trainer's set.
37. Tingle: Controversial selection, maybe, but remember this game is being made for a Japanese audience as well as an American one, and his popularity in Japan probably makes him the likeliest candidate for a fourth Zelda representative.
38. Wolf: The easiest argument here is that he'd be a Fox clone, but why should that be? Fox's moveset was conjured up for the original Smash Bros. as he'd never fought outside his Arwing before. When conjuring up a moveset for Fox's perennial nemesis, who says they need to bear any similarity?
39. K. Rool: Donkey Kong Country's constant menace. K. Rool would have to be on the shortlist for villains worthy of inclusion here.
40. Eirika: A female Lord and central character of Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones. Why take her over Micaiah? Ike already represents that strand of the Fire Emblem series; Eirika instead emphasizes the handheld titles.
41. King Dedede: Rounds out Kirby's main cast of characters. Should provide interesting gameplay, and as the character's original creator, Sakurai's just the man to deliver it.
42. Claus: I think EarthBound's big break has yet to come. Fleshing out the series' representation in Brawl could be just the thing to raise its profile, and Claus provides the perfect counterpoint to the psionic abilities of Ness and Lucas.
43. Ridley: The best choice for a new Metroid representative. Sure, Dark Samus would be cool, and easier to design, but Ridley would be so much cooler.
44. Boshi: As long as we're negotiating Geno, we might as well get a counterpart for Yoshi out of the deal. All those cool moves that Yoshi could have had and didn't could show themselves here.
45. Black Shadow: Since Samurai Goroh's deconfirmation, Black Shadow's been my choice for a new F-Zero character, and looking back I think he's probably an even better one than Samurai Goroh was after all.
46. Waluigi: I'm sure there were all sorts of zany moves they thought up for Wario, and that not all of them could make it into his moveset. Well, here's the perfect dumping ground.
47. Balloon Fighter: A couple retro selections are almost mandatory. He'd present an awfully unique moveset, I think, and they probably got a headstart developing one with Melee. From what I understand, Balloon Fighter and Excitebiker were the options they were considering before finally deciding on the Ice Climbers.
48. Ray: Custom Robo has recently expanded out of Japan into one of Nintendo's more recent worldwide successes. Ray in his various incarnations in almost always a core presence in the series.
49. Excitebiker: Turning a guy on a bike into a fighter would definitely pose some design difficulty, but if handled properly could present a truly unique fighter.
50. Isaac: Golden Sun is another of Nintendo's most recent major successes. Isaac is the most logical representative.
51. Sukapon: Obscure. Almost too obscure. But he's the main character from Nintendo's very first foray into the fighting genre, Joy Mech Fight, and this along with his unique design has made him a favorite as far as Japan-only characters are concerned.
52. Stafy: I think Melee set a good precedent with introducing the rest of the world to a Japan-only franchise with the Fire Emblem characters. Stafy is probably the safest bet for repeating this success.
53. Little Mac: Wasn't he born for this? He's similar to Pit in that he represents one of Nintendo's early franchise successes that for whatever reason fell by the wayside before long. It'd be great to see a triumphant return from both of them.
54. Andy: The Nintendo Wars representative. Having been the main character in the Advance Wars titles, he's got appeal in both Japanese and worldwide markets, unlike characters from previous entries in the series.
Third-party participants (Once again, these are a la carte offerings, roughly in order of how likely I believe their inclusion to be. Although I've made ten suggestions, I wouldn't hope for more than three or four of these to actually appear):
Snake
Sonic (Sega): It's almost got to happen, hasn't it? Mario's newly-reconciled chief third-party rival.
Mega Man (Capcom): Here's one with a long history of success on Nintendo systems, and one of Captain N's right-hand men. Few third-party characters have endured as well as Mega Man.
Simon Belmont (Konami): I've tried to limit myself to one character per developer, but I'd take Simon over Snake any day, and I halfheartedly defend this choice with the fact that it was Konami who originally convinced Nintendo to open their roster to third-party guest stars.
Bomberman (Hudson): He's another one with a long history on Nintendo consoles, even having teamed up with Wario before.
Erdrick (Enix): The hero from Dragon Quest, one of early Nintendo's greatest franchise successes, since fallen from public consciousness. A spot here would be a tribute to one of the most important works of the formative years of the RPG genre.
Moogle (Square): Moogles are able to represent the Final Fantasy series as a whole, rather than just one entry, and that's a distinction afforded few characters in its history.
Pac-Man (Namco): One of the few characters in the industry that could rival even Mario in recognizability. If that's not enough for you, he's faced off with Mario before, in Mario Kart's arcade incarnation. There's a fun fact for you.
Nightmare (Namco): Of all the fighting games out there, I think the Soul series would probably lend itself best to the Smash Bros. format, and as the games' central character, Nightmare is the best contender.
Banjo-Kazooie (Rare): Although Nintendo-Rare relations may be strained these days, the gameplay for these two would be awesome. He'd also fit in easily with this crowd, having gotten his start in Diddy Kong Racing.
Well... that's all, folks. What do you think?
TLOZ
Also Tom Nook has pretty much been deconfirmed.
