My 2 cents about Project M's current state.

[Pharo]

Okay so a few months ago(pre smash4) Project M was like, the next new big thing. It was a nice change up from Melee while still retaining some of the hype combos and mechanics, and faster gameplay.

So I just want to say, why is it any different now? The game is more balanced than ever, their is so many viable tourney stages, custom music for stages, gameplay both Melee and Brawl players can adapt too. I mean what is not to love?
THE only arguement against it is "It's just a mod(not official) or; it could get lawsuit"
My response to that? Yes its a mod. A mod shaped by the smash community to have a smash game everybody can enjoy. I mean its got so many tourney and casual levels to play on. Win there. Much wider playable cast than melee, but STILL has the melee 7. Win there. Physics and tech from Melee AND Brawl. Win there.
And lawsuit? Okay, if you are running a major national (Evo) I can see where they may be a problem because you want nintendo sponsors. I get that. But what is to prevent the PM community from having tourneys at Sm4sh and Melee Locals/Monthlies/Minor National tourneys?

Maybe I just want to see some hype PM top level play again. I don't know. But I think all this talk about it dying and being dropped is rediculous. One or 2 groups don't wanna host/showcase it? Big whoop. Let them get their precious Nintendo support. Many of us still want PM. So if they want us to focus on other channels/tourneys that do showcase it. Then who cares?

I'm probably just ranting but yeah, I'd like to see PM side tourneys everywhere there's a smash event. Sure it might not be the main event. But it sure as hell deserves to be there. PM might never be the main event, infact it will mostly be underground. But essentially, its smash made by the people, for the people. And to me, that's our smash.

Here's to more years of PM, And PM showing up where there is SSB Melee, and SSB4!

 

[IronChar]

stupid legal BS of e sports finally going major mainstream. PM is a grey area and will continue to be so.

like I said to our boys and girls. let it go underground, screw mainstream smash and screw all this drama that comes out of it- there is no doubt in my mind that part of smash 4 was influence by project m and too many people love it for it to just "go away"

nintendo wouldn't C&D at this point because the hypes built up far too much, there would be an outrage and the C&D wouldn't EVEN MATTER MAN, cause people have had access and have played this game for so long, they'll just continue to play it, cause its fun, regardless of if theres mainstream tournaments or not.

 

[Gidy]

You never really said how PM Could get out of it's current situation. The fact is it can go against Smash 4 competitively and monetarily therefore Nintendo doesn't like it.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You never really said how PM Could get out of it's current situation. The fact is it can go against Smash 4 competitively and monetarily therefore Nintendo doesn't like it.

I wouldn't worry about that unless PM goes out of it's way to snuff out Smash 4.

Still, I heard while 3.5 is more balanced, It's not favorable with everyone. Some people really liked 3.02 despite it's huge issues.

The overall tone down is something not everyone was a fan of, even if I think it needed to happen.

 

[Keman]

Maybe I just want to see some hype PM top level play again.

Just wanted to say make sure you tun into Shots Fired http://smashboards.com/threads/feb-28-2015-easton-smash-presents-shots-fired-a-melee-pm-smash-4-national-easton-pa.367231/ then because that is going to be some Hype PM, a lot of big names will be there and I think there is going to be a NYC MD/VA crew battle. (you might have already known about this I'm sure most of us do, but just wanted to bring it up as a reminder)

 

[Gidy]

I wouldn't worry about that unless PM goes out of it's way to snuff out Smash 4.

Still, I heard while 3.5 is more balanced, It's not favorable with everyone. Some people really liked 3.02 despite it's huge issues.

The overall tone down is something not everyone was a fan of, even if I think it needed to happen.

3.02 had a lot better options to get back on to ledges and they nerfed a lot of characters in 3.5, some imo who didn't need nerfs

 

[Pharo]

3.02 had a lot better options to get back on to ledges and they nerfed a lot of characters in 3.5, some imo who didn't need nerfs

I like the less options to get back on ledge. You have more of an opportunity to actually edge guard people. Lucas needed nerfed hardcore. Mario recovery and fireball nerf ( I use to main him) was imo needed. His neutral game was too strong with them. And they fixed his Fsmash's sweet spot. Mewtwo got hit alittle too hard but I mean he was pretty hard to deal with before. I main fox now in PM and I gotta say his upsmash nerf was a good call. He still is amazing but his upsmash kills like 20-30% later.

You never really said how PM Could get out of it's current situation. The fact is it can go against Smash 4 competitively and monetarily therefore Nintendo doesn't like it.

Its not really in a situation. Just needs to be played, TO's gotta see that people WANT to play it. I'm going to every tourney within a 1 hour radius that hosts PM to show this. I don't think there needs to be some elaborate plan to get it back on the map. I think if people show that they want to play it, people see that its fun to watch, then its in the green again. (And I'm pretty sure nintendo won't do anything because of that post they made awhile back about fan made creations)

 

[ZomBiehn]

Like he said, maybe it's time to let PM go underground, its probably better for the fan base anyway, and its not like its forgotten, there are tourneys for it daily!

 

[Gidy]

I like the less options to get back on ledge. You have more of an opportunity to actually edge guard people. Lucas needed nerfed hardcore. Mario recovery and fireball nerf ( I use to main him) was imo needed. His neutral game was too strong with them. And they fixed his Fsmash's sweet spot. Mewtwo got hit alittle too hard but I mean he was pretty hard to deal with before. I main fox now in PM and I gotta say his upsmash nerf was a good call. He still is amazing but his upsmash kills like 20-30% later.




Its not really in a situation. Just needs to be played, TO's gotta see that people WANT to play it. I'm going to every tourney within a 1 hour radius that hosts PM to show this. I don't think there needs to be some elaborate plan to get it back on the map. I think if people show that they want to play it, people see that its fun to watch, then its in the green again. (And I'm pretty sure nintendo won't do anything because of that post they made awhile back about fan made creations)

Lucas Nerf was not needed imo and what do you mean their statement? Do you have a source for what they said?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Tbh, I thought Fox Usmash nerf was a love tap, it kinda still is, but it's a lot more noticeable when I noticed it a lot more often.

3.02 had a lot better options to get back on to ledges and they nerfed a lot of characters in 3.5, some imo who didn't need nerfs

I don't really agree.

Even pros of PM thought how strong recoveries were made edgeguarding almost worthless against the ones who got overloaded recoveries.

 

[Gidy]

Tbh, I thought Fox Usmash nerf was a love tap, it kinda still is, but it's a lot more noticeable when I noticed it a lot more often.



I don't really agree.

Even pros of PM thought how strong recoveries were made edgeguarding almost worthless against the ones who got overloaded recoveries.

I didn't say the recovery nerfs were bad, the Lucas nerf was imo.

 

[GP&B]

Lucas' OU USmash was definitely stupid, there's not even a question about this. IIRC, 3.5 also fixes his dash grab to make a lot more sense instead having like 8+ frames of active grab box which is insane. The other nerfs I can't really comment on but these were outright stupid.

 

[Pharo]

Lucas Nerf was not needed imo and what do you mean their statement? Do you have a source for what they said?

http://www.gamnesia.com/news/ninten...icially-be-used-for-fan-projects#.VNjyRC5xnhB

Its old news but nintendo said you can use their properties for "fan projects". Pretty sure that's what Project M is. And lucas nerf was the most needed nerf of them all! I'd rather deal with melee fox 24/7 then the crap Lucas was doing. He's still an amazing character he just is fixed.

 

[TTTTTsd]

My gist is if P:M doesn't push Smash 4 out or interfere with it (which it hasn't at all done yet) then it's probably going to be fine. It's a forced grassroots situation and people are definitely worried but that's cause this was mainstream for a bit and now we're going back underground. Our crucial and core members are still here though, so obviously we're fine.

I no scare.

 

[Gidy]

I'm really confused then. if Nintendo allows fan projects then why is PM appearing at less and less tournaments?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm really confused then. if Nintendo allows fan projects then why is PM appearing at less and less tournaments?

Nintendo is ok with it, but they can't "officially" support it.

 

[Gidy]

Nintendo is ok with it, but they can't "officially" support it.

No, but they are ok with it. Everything we've heard about PM is false then, right? Why did GimR take PM off VGBC when they are in no legal gray area? Why is Apex telling Super Smash Bros Crusade not to stream when Nintendo doesn't care about it? WHY WAS PM NOT AT APEX?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

No, but they are ok with it. Everything we've heard about PM is false then, right? Why did GimR take PM off VGBC when they are in no legal gray area? Why is Apex telling Super Smash Bros Crusade not to stream when Nintendo doesn't care about it? WHY WAS PM NOT AT APEX?

APEX is a different situation.

Nintendo is ok with fangame and etc, but they can't attach their names to it. That's not a lie or false.

 

[Gidy]

APEX is a different situation.

Nintendo is ok with fangame and etc, but they can't attach their names to it. That's not a lie or false.

Well I dont see the name Super Smash Bros in Project M so it could be a entirely different game registered for Apex. Also what about GimR and other tourneys?

 

[GP&B]

You're being pedantic.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Well I dont see the name Super Smash Bros in Project M so it could be a entirely different game registered for Apex. Also what about GimR and other tourneys?

It's still Super Smash Brothers, like it's not about hiding a name or anything, it's still the same thing in the franchise.

CEO said they could only host 2 smash events, they picked Smash 4 instead and based on the results of APEX I would say they would get large numbers for that. That's at least what they said and I get why.

GIMR wants to try and I bevel be more involved with Nintendo so I get why he dropped PM. It might have been premature...but I get why he did it.

 

[ChiePet]

APEX is a different situation.

Nintendo is ok with fangame and etc, but they can't attach their names to it. That's not a lie or false.

I just wish I knew exactly who/what (probably Sega/Konami) keeps them from at least letting it continue on, not supported, but at least at events they support. Their total involvement is a really bad Double-Edged Sword :/

 

[Gidy]

It's still Super Smash Brothers, like it's not about hiding a name or anything, it's still the same thing in the franchise.

CEO said they could only host 2 smash events, they picked Smash 4 instead and based on the results of APEX I would say they would get large numbers for that. That's at least what they said and I get why.

GIMR wants to try and I bevel be more involved with Nintendo so I get why he dropped PM. It might have been premature...but I get why he did it.

Then GimR is stupid. The chanes of getting Nintendo as a sponsor for VGBC are little to none. Are you saying he's in it for the money? PM isn't in a legal gray area. I can understand why it can't be at apex, but for a community weekly like Xanadu I think it's really stupid.

 

[ChiePet]

Side note: Sakurai doesn't wanna give up his Baby, but can't keep killing himself to continue sequels.. P:M is the best example of his beloved franchise's supporters essentially going "We'll help, guy! "

Personally, I think Nintendo's "Flops" during this last 2 years are major reasons for any of the PM pushing; Their Public Image after the latest Youtube Debacle is not exactly acceptable, and keeping everything they own in check and 'needing' to support Melee after 14 years shows their struggling. I just wish Sakurai would be able to put his foot in the door and go "hey, that's my baby, j'll decide what's best for it"

Sigh.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I can't speak for GIMR outside of what he has said. Did money have a part in the money situation? Probably. He is doing a business after all. But I think people are entirely wrong about his concern with the legal grey area. It's a legitimate concern even more so if he were to want to do business with the big N. On this front others need to pick up the pace since they dropped it.

For Nintendo, people want them to pick up PM but I doubt they will. They just released Smash 4 with Amiibo lines. Picking PM might be a good way to ruin a lot of that. Even if the game itself is the most sold WiiU game of all time and will continue to grow.

What PM needs to do is make the interest grow. I mentioned 3.5 and how people jumped ship when it was "less fun" which I feel is a good example of the League Irelia problem. It was good for game health, but some people did not like it.

That said. It's about interest in a grass roots. That is what PM more likely needs.

 

[Gidy]

I can't speak for GIMR outside of what he has said. Did money have a part in the money situation? Probably. He is doing a business after all. But I think people are entirely wrong about his concern with the legal grey area. It's a legitimate concern even more so if he were to want to do business with the big N. On this front others need to pick up the pace since they dropped it.

For Nintendo, people want them to pick up PM but I doubt they will. They just released Smash 4 with Amiibo lines. Picking PM might be a good way to ruin a lot of that. Even if the game itself is the most sold WiiU game of all time and will continue to grow.

What PM needs to do is make the interest grow. I mentioned 3.5 and how people jumped ship when it was "less fun" which I feel is a good example of the League Irelia problem. It was good for game health, but some people did not like it.

That said. It's about interest in a grass roots. That is what PM more likely needs.

I can't forgive GimR then for dropping Project M if he wants VGBC to be involved with Nintendo for money over the fans of both PM and the fans of VGBC. If that's not the case, then I dont see how PM is in a legal gray area if Nintendo is okay with it.

 

[GP&B]

You're greatly oversimplifying things and you're also making assumptions about GimR's choices.

 

[Gidy]

You're greatly oversimplifying things and you're also making assumptions about GimR's choices.

Oversimplifying what and how? I know I am making assumptions, and assumptions are just assumptions. I don't know if it's true.

 

[GP&B]

The relationship between PM and Nintendo in particular. Nintendo cannot actively acknowledge PM's existence or it would have to force its hand legally to protect its property (supposedly, but copyright law is all over the damn place). So while they easily could, they choose not to. This is why Nintendo involvement in a tournament rules out the possibility of PM being there. But beyond that, it's all vague. We don't know if Nintendo would take action if PM gained a ton of traction again and got a bigger spotlight. GimR made the personal choice of not running that risk anyway.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I agree copyright law has a lot of bull**** involved in it And it's not consistent, at all.

Nintendo can get in trouble if they don't protect it if they acknowledge Project M.

I wish they could, but at the same time that law is there to stop people from stealing other people's work and make a profit off of it.

PM itself doesn't make money off it, but it's still not endorsed by Nintendo and given the other stuff like Smash 4 being released, I doubt they would.

 

[Gidy]

Then don't have it at any tournament that Nintendo sponsors. Xanadu isn't one of those big Apex-EVO tournaments, though. However, Didn't Nintendo say that they allow use of their property therefore they won't take action? "Going beyond that'" shouldn't it be fine at those bigger Apex-EVO tournaments?

 

[Pharo]

That said. It's about interest in a grass roots. That is what PM more likely needs.

Just for clarification, can you define "grass roots" for me? I'm trying to get PM more of a scene locally and so far its kind of good. I got some sm4shers into it but I'm at a loss for getting it at a national. I mean I watch it whenever a big tourney hosts and streams it but that's all I feel like I can do.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Then don't have it at any tournament that Nintendo sponsors. Xanadu isn't one of those big Apex-EVO tournaments, though. However, Didn't Nintendo say that they allow use of their property therefore they won't take action? "Going beyond that'" shouldn't it be fine at those bigger Apex-EVO tournaments?

You keep going back to that but keep missing the point.

Yes they let people make fangames, if they were firmly against it PM would have been C&D right away.

They still can't directly support it. They want to support the smash community, they can't do that with PM because they would have to shut it down. It's why you can't talk about it on mii verse as well.

Big tournaments can do it, some can't even if the big N is not there. Same can be said for people making money off of PM, Nintendo would more so have an issue with that.

Just for clarification, can you define "grass roots" for me? I'm trying to get PM more of a scene locally and so far its kind of good. I got some sm4shers into it but I'm at a loss for getting it at a national. I mean I watch it whenever a big tourney hosts and streams it but that's all I feel like I can do.

It means it's more or less hosted by the community or smaller businesses, more so the community part. Basically no huge coorperation is profiting off of it.

 

[Giygacoal]

I still don't really get why Nintendo would have legal troubles from even acknowledging the existence of PM, other than from simply being old fashioned and Japanese. Plenty of American developers endorse fan mods. Is it because legal grey area things were done to create PM?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I still don't really get why Nintendo would have legal troubles from even acknowledging the existence of PM, other than from simply being old fashioned and Japanese. Plenty of American developers endorse fan mods. Is it because legal grey area things were done to create PM?

I think it is mostly that they don't want to open the door for it.

It's not about them being old fashioned, it has other things they would have to worry about like quality control and licensing etc, if they supported something.

 

[Gidy]

How is it a issue for twitch or just in general?

 

[TTTTTsd]

Well the first issue before you even count twitch is accounting for unlicensed non-Nintendo stuff in P:M. Yes, Dracula's Castle, and Jet Set Sonic, you are the elephants in the room.

 

[Gidy]

Well the first issue before you even count twitch is accounting for unlicensed non-Nintendo stuff in P:M. Yes, Dracula's Castle, and Jet Set Sonic, you are the elephants in the room.

So twitch cares about that stuff too when it comes to monetary gain?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

How is it a issue for twitch or just in general?

In general.

But again idk how active people are being with shutting it down off streams unless Nintendo did care for people making a lot of money off streamers.

 

[Gidy]

In general.

But again idk how active people are being with shutting it down off streams unless Nintendo did care for people making a lot of money off streamers.

So this brings me back to the point on how it's a problem for something like Xanadu?