Motivation and Playing to Win: I Don't Understand

[NintendoMan07]

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It's been a long time since I last made a blog, and now that User Blogs has some regulars, I feel like I'm on stage with stage fright, stumbling over words WORSE than I already do to begin with and possibly with my legs shaking.

Speaking of stage fright, I happen to feel this way almost every time I'm around people. If I'm talking, I'm usually cursing myself after the conversation at something I either didn't say or something I said awkwardly. If I'm playing Brawl, I'm always tense. Maybe it's because I'm losing, maybe it's because something didn't work out like I thought, maybe it's because I didn't meet the other person's expectations, I dunno. Whatever it is, this stage fright thing is the reason I don't play Brawl much.

What's worse, is all this happens during mere friendlies. I haven't even been to a tournament yet, so all I've played are friendlies.

Yet, it nags me so much that I'm not playing it. It nags me so much that I'm not really trying to improve.

What I'm missing is motivation, I suppose. I'm not really motivated by money, or I'd be at tournaments. I'm not really motivated by wins or losses, because I've lost so much that I've really just accepted my place as a loser. I'm motivated by success and the acknowledgment of that success, I guess. After all, I stress out over school to care about grades, and I'm happy playing single player games when I can make some form of progress.

So, to improve in a fighting game like Brawl (or Melee, to remotely please both sides), I'm supposed to fight better people, right?

But the one problem I'm running into is... well, grasping competitive ideas, I suppose. I'm totally new to competition. For example, playing to win. Where does it start and where does it end? I mean, it has to have boundaries or I'd be surprised that Smashboards exists. In a nutshell, I'm hearing "Screw other people, screw everything else, all I care about is winning!"

I've had someone I chat with effectively telling me that I don't HAVE to play to win, that really, if the game stresses me out that much, then I don't have to play it at all. True, but isn't the end result that he eliminated one of his potential opponents, one of the basic ideas of playing to win? Do everything legal to take out your opponents, right?

If that's truly the case, then how do I improve if everyone is on their own and/or communicating with me with a hidden agenda? Computer players are regarded as terrible practice, yet the better suggestion is the same people that play to win. They won't fight me; they've got nothing to gain. Beating worse people offers no sense of improvement, so ideally you fight better people, right? Ideally speaking, I wouldn't be able to play anyone, since I'm clearly not better than anyone at this point.

Something seems really wrong here to me, seeing as I find it hard to believe that people can be that shallow. But hey, who am I to question this kind of thing? After all, honor is garbage when faced with playing to win, right?

Such a community could easily snuff out any kind of effort I would make to get better. And when success seems out of reach... my motivation goes downhill. And thus I find myself not playing Brawl.

At any rate, thanks for reading this, and while I may seem cynical/sarcastic/whatever, realize that these are REALLY the things that don't seem to add up for me in a playing to win environment.

 

[Browny]

the purist fighting game 'sirlin' playing to win mentality and brawl DO NOT mix. they never have.

Thats why like 75% of content in this game is completely banned to even make it possible to compete it properly.

People will play against you if you're worse than them, assuming they wont because there is no gain for them is quite wrong. Anyone who refuses to probably isnt worth your time, or anyones time, anyway.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

It's hard to say anything to help you. I lost my nervousness around people in tense situations like playing competitively (although I still get flustered when I lose). Everyone works differently, so I don't know what advice to give you. I'm also a bit lost as to your main problem. You don't know how to play competitively?

 

[kr3wman]

I had this when I went to my first tournament. One thing that helped me alot was talking to those people that I competed with at tournaments on basically anything on messaging services like MSN or AIM. For example I talked with someone who was competing in an online tournament, and we talked about his reactions to other players. And while he wasn't playing, we just talked about what happens irl, whatever it is, not necessarily of smash.

Playing to win is only important in tournaments. When I stress out, I try picking falcon and randomly shouting 'MANLY DITTOS!' and it virtually limits the character select screen to only Ganondorf and Falcon. we do this ALOT in montreal and it really helps taking the stress out of things.

Basically, just talk to those people, get to know them. If you only say those things here (that you can stress out just by losing/ losing too much) then talk to someone about it. Maybe for example the person that you enjoy playing with the most -competitively-, or the guy that acts as the 'adult' of the group. (here we have chesterr01, try finding out who is in your region/city).

Of course, all of this might be useless, but I sincerely want to help

 

[TiekoForever]

I always saw it as a way to make new friends and play the right way instead of thinking to become the best. Although it is a nice thought, i would never let it get to my head as much and transform into a complete jerk over it.

 

[NintendoMan07]

the purist fighting game 'sirlin' playing to win mentality and brawl DO NOT mix. they never have.

Thats why like 75% of content in this game is completely banned to even make it possible to compete it properly.

People will play against you if you're worse than them, assuming they wont because there is no gain for them is quite wrong. Anyone who refuses to probably isnt worth your time, or anyones time, anyway.

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but I DID mean to say ideally. I can't accurately judge how close or how far from that ideal the Brawl community is, but seems pretty intimidating, really.

I saw a topic in General Brawl pertaining to playing worse people. One of the common suggestions was to pick someone other than your main. Is it just me, or is that a really sly way of saying "You're not worth my time, but I'll play as someone else so you should be thankful I'm playing with you."?

It's hard to say anything to help you. I lost my nervousness around people in tense situations like playing competitively (although I still get flustered when I lose). Everyone works differently, so I don't know what advice to give you. I'm also a bit lost as to your main problem. You don't know how to play competitively?

Yeah, basically. You could probably stretch that to be blunt enough to say that I don't know how to play, period.

I had this when I went to my first tournament. One thing that helped me alot was talking to those people that I competed with at tournaments on basically anything on messaging services like MSN or AIM. For example I talked with someone who was competing in an online tournament, and we talked about his reactions to other players. And while he wasn't playing, we just talked about what happens irl, whatever it is, not necessarily of smash.

Playing to win is only important in tournaments. When I stress out, I try picking falcon and randomly shouting 'MANLY DITTOS!' and it virtually limits the character select screen to only Ganondorf and Falcon. we do this ALOT in montreal and it really helps taking the stress out of things.

Basically, just talk to those people, get to know them. If you only say those things here (that you can stress out just by losing/ losing too much) then talk to someone about it. Maybe for example the person that you enjoy playing with the most -competitively-, or the guy that acts as the 'adult' of the group. (here we have chesterr01, try finding out who is in your region/city).

Of course, all of this might be useless, but I sincerely want to help

Well, that helps, a bit. I've talked with some of the people in my local competitive Smash scene online and they're all nice guys, but when the conversation is about Smash, I can't help but feel that they're not exactly upfront about everything, which I dunno if it's me being paranoid or if it's them playing to win.

Essentially, I'm getting this "do it yourself" attitude from them, when ironically they're the people that I need to play to succeed.

As a result, I can't really say I've found the 'adult' of the group yet for my area.

I always saw it as a way to make new friends and play the right way instead of thinking to become the best. Although it is a nice thought, i would never let it get to my head as much and transform into a complete jerk over it.

See, if could do competitive Smash like that, I'd do it.

 

[East]

A few months back, I did a blog on my inability to understand the "Play to Win" mindset, and although I didn't get a large response, I got an answer that helped me. You take the "Play to Win" Mentality as far as you want it to go. For example, Overswarm has a section in his R.O.B. guide about something called "Soul Crushing" It is essentially destroying your opponents drive to win. While I wish to cast no judgment on Overswarm, cause for all I know he could be a pretty nice guy, I refuse to "soul crush" someone [which basically boils down to treating them pretty terribly.] In a nutshell you take your morals and apply the playing to win mindset to them, so that you stay true to yourself.

Don't let people lie to you and tell you that everything is play to win no matter what, and that what you call "justice" has no place here. If that was the case everyone who was serious about playing to win would get a percent lead and then just plank the rest of the match, running the clock. As you can see, the majority of people don't do that, so we [for the most part] all have some sort of "justice" that we hold on to.

Because everyone is different, I can't just tell you what your motivation would be when playing Brawl. If you're still playing it, there's either something still tethering you to the game, or you're just killing time. Try to think back at why you originally bought the game, and go from there. If it's not the competitive scene that interests you, then just stop playing it competitively. No one is going to look down on you, and if they do, they are morally corrupt for trying to force their ways of doing something upon you. Playing competitively just isn't for some people, and that's ok. I solve rubick's cubes just for the sheer entertainment, though I try to get faster occasionally, I don't compete in tournaments and the like. It's more enjoyable to me that way [perhaps that was a bad comparison, but oh well].

Regarding the competitive players in your area. Brawl is not like some government conspiracy theory. People play this game to have fun. There's no "get him to stop playing so we don't have that much competition." Though many times the brawl community can sometimes come off a little [or incredibly] harsh, we're really just a bunch of people with a common interest trying to have a little fun. And if the people around you really do have "hidden agendas" that's pretty messed up. If anything, we encourage more competition.

If you don't think the people in your area are helping you get any better, try to get other people you know interested in Brawl. You'll teach them what you know, they'll apply it to what they know, get better, and soon you guys will be helping each other get better.

This reply is getting a lot longer than what I originally had anticipated, so I'll wrap up with this last thought: With a such little self-confidence, and a sig like "Worst Brawler in North America. Period." You probably are a ****ty player. Chances are as long as you keep thinking that way, you'll continue to be a ****ty player. Until you puff your chest out and get a little pride in your abilities, you probably won't do any better. Part of playing good, is acknowledging the fact that you do so. This might also contribute to the problem you feel that other people think they're wasting their time trying to help you. If you feel you can't do something, what is someone else going to see in you that will make them think you can? Absolutely nothing. So stop feeling sorry for yourself and show some confidence.

Perhaps that last statement came off a little harsh. I can only hope, it set in as to provide a change of pace for the way you feel about yourself, not to hurt feelings. If you don't agree with anything I've said up here, by all means don't take my advice. After all I'm just another kid just trying to make sense of the world and this whole brawl thing.

Good Luck : )

 

[NintendoMan07]

A few months back, I did a blog on my inability to understand the "Play to Win" mindset, and although I didn't get a large response, I got an answer that helped me. You take the "Play to Win" Mentality as far as you want it to go. For example, Overswarm has a section in his R.O.B. guide about something called "Soul Crushing" It is essentially destroying your opponents drive to win. While I wish to cast no judgment on Overswarm, cause for all I know he could be a pretty nice guy, I refuse to "soul crush" someone [which basically boils down to treating them pretty terribly.] In a nutshell you take your morals and apply the playing to win mindset to them, so that you stay true to yourself.

I see. That's... a lot more reasonable than I was seeing it, I guess.

Don't let people lie to you and tell you that everything is play to win no matter what, and that what you call "justice" has no place here. If that was the case everyone who was serious about playing to win would get a percent lead and then just plank the rest of the match, running the clock. As you can see, the majority of people don't do that, so we [for the most part] all have some sort of "justice" that we hold on to.

Due to my lack of experience with the game, I can't really verify or deny what you're saying, but it seems like what you're saying is happening anyway. And with one side being "the whiners" on the planking issue and the other side "not knowing anything about planking", it's really difficult to tell what's really happening.

What I DO know is that I've seen plenty of topics get attacked with the "honor is garbage, play to win" response.

Because everyone is different, I can't just tell you what your motivation would be when playing Brawl. If you're still playing it, there's either something still tethering you to the game, or you're just killing time. Try to think back at why you originally bought the game, and go from there. If it's not the competitive scene that interests you, then just stop playing it competitively. No one is going to look down on you, and if they do, they are morally corrupt for trying to force their ways of doing something upon you. Playing competitively just isn't for some people, and that's ok. I solve rubick's cubes just for the sheer entertainment, though I try to get faster occasionally, I don't compete in tournaments and the like. It's more enjoyable to me that way [perhaps that was a bad comparison, but oh well].

Well, so to speak, I DID want to get "more competitive", but that was just in the sense that since Brawl had Wi-Fi, was going to try to play other people. For me, Melee after a while of playing it solo degenerated into a suicide-fest with Lvl. 1 comps.

I ran with an online group about 4 or so months before joining Smashboards, and they weren't competitive as defined here. It was obviously a casual community. I went a few rounds with them, but due to me just starting out, losses would set me back for weeks at a time, so overall I didn't play much with them. And what's worse (well, from my view anyway), they DID care about skill to an extent. If there was anything besides 1v1 or 2v2, it didn't count. So I was in a quasi-casual community where I didn't make the cut. It disbanded after about 3 months due to the website going down, and I was left as "empty" as when I started.

About a month later, I find myself signing up for Smashboards, hoping to possibly fill in what was missing: which I assumed was skill. But I get distracted from that simple goal by such things as "play to win" and "scrub" and whatever. It's almost as if I had arrived at a big city, not knowing where I'm supposed to be, and finding out that everyone is just too busy with their own lives to answer me when I ask for directions.

So to elaborate on my line of thinking in my OP, my motivation for wanting to play Brawl is success, or more accurately, not failing. I evidently don't play it because I'm finding that success elsewhere: in The World Ends With You. Clearly though, I'm still tethered to Brawl to some extent since I'm still browsing Smashboards and making posts like these. I guess you could say my conscience is nagging me about my failure in Brawl.

Regarding the competitive players in your area. Brawl is not like some government conspiracy theory. People play this game to have fun. There's no "get him to stop playing so we don't have that much competition." Though many times the brawl community can sometimes come off a little [or incredibly] harsh, we're really just a bunch of people with a common interest trying to have a little fun. And if the people around you really do have "hidden agendas" that's pretty messed up. If anything, we encourage more competition.

Thanks for the clarification although the conspiracy theory comparison didn't come to mind until you mentioned it. At any rate, THIS is what I was talking about in asking where exactly does "playing to win" begin and end.

On a side note, I find it really odd that when I happen to vent my feelings out about something people remark that it doesn't flow logically, yet when I write papers for my classes there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with how I structure my ideas.

If you don't think the people in your area are helping you get any better, try to get other people you know interested in Brawl. You'll teach them what you know, they'll apply it to what they know, get better, and soon you guys will be helping each other get better.

Well, I do have a backdoor to this situation, but it's not as great as trying to get help from the competitive community. There are a few friends I know that play the game (or WOULD play the game if they owned it), but we only get to meet when I'm out of college for the semester.

This reply is getting a lot longer than what I originally had anticipated, so I'll wrap up with this last thought: With a such little self-confidence, and a sig like "Worst Brawler in North America. Period." You probably are a ****ty player. Chances are as long as you keep thinking that way, you'll continue to be a ****ty player. Until you puff your chest out and get a little pride in your abilities, you probably won't do any better. Part of playing good, is acknowledging the fact that you do so. This might also contribute to the problem you feel that other people think they're wasting their time trying to help you. If you feel you can't do something, what is someone else going to see in you that will make them think you can? Absolutely nothing. So stop feeling sorry for yourself and show some confidence.

Yet lying to myself and others does nothing good either.

So where exactly do you place your confidence when you really don't have much proof of anything?
I mean, saying your good more often than not gets you heckled around here, yet saying your intermediate and then proceeding to disappoint the opponent doesn't work either.

Perhaps that last statement came off a little harsh. I can only hope, it set in as to provide a change of pace for the way you feel about yourself, not to hurt feelings. If you don't agree with anything I've said up here, by all means don't take my advice. After all I'm just another kid just trying to make sense of the world and this whole brawl thing.

Well, if anything, I guess I have a better solution to the sig. I'll be honest, I had forgot about it until you brought it up. It's just... placing a lot of confidence in myself seems like a really bold maneuver. I mean... I've seen Meet and Greet topics that either got heckled or got warned because people placed a lot of confidence in their skills.

Good Luck : )

Thanks.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Hey dude all you have to do is relax or get this amazing feeling i get when i play melee, I feel like i could rip a freakin bear half.

But really think like this and you don't have if you don't want to. When you speeck don't worry and in fact you should just enjoy it. when i go up for a speech I enjoy it even if i forget my lines. Because I look at life like this. look around and stop this minute right here you only get once so you might as well make this the best **** minute ever and set-up for future great times.

If this helped contact me.

 

[OutlawStar]

Don`t say you are bad. If you like the game, you will probably enjoy
trying to get better. EVERYONE is(how should I put this bias...) bad, when they
first start, but you can`t complain about it, it will only drag you down.
God is most likely not going to reach down and touch your hands to all the sudden
make you great at the game.

Some things you have to work for.

I finally realized this a few days ago. God won`t just give you everything
no matter how much you really want it, not saying it is impossible, but its just this,
things you REALLY want you will work for. It`s not really yourself if you are not willing
to work for it yourself, so if you want to get better, you have to stay positive.

And now I take different styles of play all the same.

If someone is nice, doesn`t attack when I taunt, seems friendly, but still plays serious,
that helps alot, you just need to find the right people.
But, if you fight someone with some crazy combos and are they use no matter what and are unforgiving,
they are still-whether they are really meaning to or not-helping you as long as
you try to find ways to get around the problem, which, actually applies to everything.

In the end, fighting aggressively could be the best way to help you, you
just have to try your best not to get frustrated, and it depends on how you take it.

I hope that helps, but if it doesn`t just remember why you are playing it in the first place.

 

[NintendoMan07]

So I went on Faux Finder and played a few doubles matches online.

They weren't exactly proper doubles matches, and I was unknowningly ruining the stage picks because my random stage selection had some "terrible" stages in it.

The whole stage fright thing didn't hold me as bad as it used to (where I was just plain SDing because I wanted it to end), but it was still there somewhat.

But people complaining about stage selection didn't help calm me down AT ALL. That and the same people complaining about no team attack.

So I guess I now have an answer to the "who cares?" argument: Everyone.

 

[NintendoMan07]

Well, it seems I'm slowly rebounding from this slump. I find it odd that I usually start getting back into the groove JUST as the semester ends. It's like... the whole time I had everything available to me, but I was just too busy dealing with my own problems.

I'm still having a bit of trouble with the Faux Finder community though. It's like... well, I'm getting a lot of hate there too. It may be because I really don't understand how people treat the game. After all, I'm not really a competitive person to begin with, so I completely miss the point on how a competitive community runs.

Anyway, I've only got about a week before it comes time to close another chapter in my competitive journey. Sure, I'll conveniently be relatively close to Santi and Dojo, but really, with them being SBR members or Smash pros or whatever, I doubt they'll want to waste their time with me. I won't have Wifi because my parents are behind the times and still think dial-up is the way to go. So... what do I do?