Most Necessary Reworks Ranking (1st Ganon / 2nd Toon Link / 2nd Sonic)

[buirac]

The attempt of this post is to stablish a ranking of the most desired moveset improvements for the next Smash installment.

Feel free to click on each Character in need of change in the poll.

It's okay to give some explanation on the choice, but it's not an imperative.

Here comes mine.


Ganondorf (his nowadays existence as a Falcon's clone is offensive to Zelda fans)

Metaknight (it's not enough with a single nerf; UpB must be moderated and his Neutral B is insane - etc)

Bowser (he just needs lots of improvements, not only a boost should be implemented on him, but some deep change on his weapons)

Mario (mushroom power-ups instead of the arbitrary moveset he got from the first Smash would give him great versatility and good classic fanservice for his past iterations)

Zelda (her moveset feels absolutely unnatural to me)


More quick stuff: As you've just seen, the choice is absolutely subjective

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'd say Sonic needs a slightly more diverse moveset or at least a new side B.

Samus's morph bombs need an improvment, possibly a morph ball mode
Falcon need his combos back
Wolf and Falco need new final smashes as does Toon Link and either Ness or Lucas.

All else has been said already.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Meta Knight is fine moveset wise, remove the tornado's mini-knockback that makes people stuck in it, reduce up-B's knockback, as well as reduce the knockback on his side-B. On top of that they should just nerf most of his numbers, and slightly nerf the knockback on his Nair. He's supposed to be able to damage fast but be a weak KO'er, but his KO potential is too great.

Bowser just needs something to make up for his giant hitbox, he's too easy juggle and chain-grab. Plus, give him a new side-B, the current one is a joke just to kill your opponent and yourself.

Ganondorf, Falco and Toon Link needs to be de-clonified. Ganondorf shouldn't be hard at all, the character has immense potential. Falco had a step forward in Brawl, let him take his final step to become unique in the next game. Give him an Arwing for FS too. Toon Link needs to de-clonified heavily, he's the only character I'd still call a direct clone, where as I call the others semi-clones.

The last character I feel needs changing is Wario. He's a great character, fun and all, but I feel he needs more inspiration from Wario Land and less from Wario Ware. The motorcycle: Gone, replace with shoulder tackle, and find a new side-Smash to him then. Down-Smash: Change to the Shake It mega punch. The pooping, eating and corkscrew can stay, that's part of his general character anyways. Rest should be fine.

A Morph Ball mode to Samus would also be cool, but didn't vote for her because it'd just be cool, nothing that's necessary.

 

[buirac]

I agree with everything you both said, though I would have Sonic, Falco, Wolf and Toon Link "skinisized" before reworking them

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Skinisized? What does that mean?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Skinisized? What does that mean?

Probably alt costumes, which would not go over well.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

All that needs to happen is some balancing. I'm not going into specifics because I really just don't feel like it. I personally think the movesets for the most part are fine, but the power for certain characters is outright unbalanced.

 

[FalKoopa]

For most part, Toon Link and Ganondorf need some luigification. And Mario a little bit (FLUDD).

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I always thought FLUDD could have been better if he was a recovery move. But that isn't going to happen. I agree on Toon Link and Ganondorf with the moveset changing.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Thing is....

"Those who have played Link should enjoy playing Toon Link, too. As a rule, the special moves are the same."

I doubt we will see a decloned Toon Link any time soon.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

"Those who have played Link should enjoy playing Toon Link, too. As a rule, the special moves are the same."

I doubt we will see a decloned Toon Link any time soon.

That's just an excuse for why he's a clone, he had to come up with something instead of pretending like he hadn't explained the character before. It'd be one silly rule, but hey, never know with Sakurai.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think Sakurai meant that they are meant to be the same. They represent different Links, but they are meant to be the same moveset wise.

For me, it's good enough that they play differently. Although I do understand why some people want him to be different.

 

[3Bismyname]

most characters are gonna need to be updated a little. even with just a property change or something i feel most characters will be changed in this sense. as for a complete reworking, only Ganandorf and Lucario really. while i agree that Falco should be changed up a little more, im pretty ok with how he is now and just needs a little more push to be his own character. Ganandorf should never have been so similar to to Capt Falcon and Lucario just doesnt fight the way i imagined he should play.

Certain move changes that i think should be done:

I feel Peach should lose her neutral Special, replacing it with the Chargebrella or maybe even a projectile block with the umbrella, like Toad is now just with her umbrella instead. with her umbrella having an asthetic change of now looking like Perry the Parasol

Luigi should have the Poltergust in his moveset somehow. idk how tho. and i always thought his side special was awkward.

Pikachu shouldnt use Headbutt. it should be replaced with Iron Tail where he leaps forward and spins to his u with his tail so yeah thats all i would change.

thats just a few of the move changes that i think shoul happen so yeah.

 

[_R@bid_]

I don't think anyone but Sonic needs a complete overhaul, but small changes for balance and improved design should happen.
Mario needs to get rid of that FLUDD. Give him the Galaxy Spin as a slight variation of his Melee dB.
Give Luigi a Poltergust as down b or grab, to give him a way to work around poor air mobility for approaches.
Sonic... Is an utter mess.
Bowser needs some buffs.
Toon Link should be Luigified a little- he's the only remaining clone, IMO. Hurricane Spin, a Deku Leaf, and the Hammer would be good.
Oh and PT stamina should go, as well as the transformation between Zelda/Sheik. The last is just opinion though.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Sonic's flaws likely come from the fact that he was decided on late in development. Can easily see him getting a new down-B in the next game. It is kind of ridiculous for him to have 3 specials based on the same move in the games.

 

[Starcutter]

Ganondorf def needs an original moveset.

also, all mario really needs is to change the cape into the spin, with the same functions as the cape.

luigi needs the poltergust.

 

[Noler_Mass]

Bring back bowsers sideways B

 

[_R@bid_]

Ganondorf def needs an original moveset.

also, all mario really needs is to change the cape into the spin, with the same function.

luigi needs the poltergust.

Do you mean with the same function as the cape, or as the spin? If you're advocating to get rid of the cape for the spin, I would very much disagree with you. The spin is simply another recovery tool for Mario. The cape is also a recovery tool, but it can also do more. Mind games, gimps, and anti projectile use are some things it can do. The cape is much more versatile and useful than the spin. FLUDD should go before the cape does, as its use in edge guarding is redundant with the cape around, and it's hardly useful for anything else.

 

[Starcutter]

Do you mean with the same function as the cape, or as the spin? If you're advocating to get rid of the cape for the spin, I would very much disagree with you. The spin is simply another recovery tool for Mario. The cape is also a recovery tool, but it can also do more. Mind games, gimps, and anti projectile use are some things it can do. The cape is much more versatile and useful than the spin. FLUDD should go before the cape does, as its use in edge guarding is redundant with the cape around, and it's hardly useful for anything else.

no, keep the spin as the same function as the cape is what I meant. (but in galaxy it could also reflect projectiles, and it also acts like a trip sometimes, so it wouldn't be TOO bad either :/ also it lets mario travel through SPACE!)

but.... the FLUDD was kinda useful...

 

[buirac]

Do you mean with the same function as the cape, or as the spin? If you're advocating to get rid of the cape for the spin, I would very much disagree with you. The spin is simply another recovery tool for Mario. The cape is also a recovery tool, but it can also do more. Mind games, gimps, and anti projectile use are some things it can do. The cape is much more versatile and useful than the spin. FLUDD should go before the cape does, as its use in edge guarding is redundant with the cape around, and it's hardly useful for anything else.

Galaxy's Spin works as a shield in those games, I guess it would be like actualizing the cape, don't think that's a bad idea. Has anyone played Smash Flash 2? Megaman's disguises should be applicated to Mario. And Rocket FLUDD for recovery.

 

[_R@bid_]

no, keep the spin as the same function as the cape is what I meant. (but in galaxy it could also reflect projectiles, and it also acts like a trip sometimes, so it wouldn't be TOO bad either :/ also it lets mario travel through SPACE!)

but.... the FLUDD was kinda useful...

So a spin with the cape's reversing and reflecting properties? That wouldn't be so bad, though I think a spin animation would make it slower, slightly limiting its use. And yeah, FLUDD had some situational use, but not as much as any of his other specials did.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Galaxy's Spin works as a shield in those games, I guess it would be like actualizing the cape, don't think that's a bad idea. Has anyone played Smash Flash 2? Megaman's disguises should be applicated to Mario. And Rocket FLUDD for recovery.

Mario is meant as a standard character that everyone can sit down and play, giving him a situational move like Mega Man's B-Down in SSF2 would take that away from him. Not that I'd mind, but I don't think they're too keen on changing Mario besides FLUDD who has outlived his promotional use, and was downright useless.

 

[buirac]

Mario is meant as a standard character that everyone can sit down and play, giving him a situational move like Mega Man's B-Down in SSF2 would take that away from him. Not that I'd mind, but I don't think they're too keen on changing Mario besides FLUDD who has outlived his promotional use, and was downright useless.

His standard metagame is a good point if we try to anticipate next Smash (and I would never discuss that). But this thread/poll is about what we want. Besides, I think that perhaps most people here around would prefer a "representative Mario" than a "standard Mario".

 

[buirac]

Sorry for double post

 

[Swamp Sensei]

His standard metagame is a good point if we try to anticipate next Smash (and I would never discuss that). But this thread/poll is about what we want. Besides, I think that perhaps most people here around would prefer a "representative Mario" than a "standard Mario".

You got proof for that statement?

 

[Knight Dude]

I agree that Mario should get another Down-B attack. I'm thinking something along the lines of the Spin Attack from the Galaxy games. Though instead of doing multiple weak hits, Mario hits each enemy once with great force. It could act as a decent finisher move for Mario, and in mid-air, Mario could get a bit of boost in recovery. Also give him some general buffs in terms of overall power. I namely want to see buffs on his Fireball, Forward Smash, Down Smash and Final Smash. They don't need much, just a little extra power. Like the Fireball dealing like 11% damage now or something like that.

Luigi, well not much to say on him. For the most part, he's just fine as he is. But I'd like to see the vacuum be implemented into his set. Namely his throow attacks, since his specials are fine as they are.

Ganondorf should obviously get a handful of changes in the next Smash game. The biggest change I want to see in Ganon is speed. Mind you, he should still be slow, but I think he's better off at his Melee speed, if not ever so slightly faster than that. Give him a sword that would change most of his A attacks, except his Down Smash, Up Smash, Up Tilt, Down Tilt, and Side tilt. Those moves can stay the same, the rest would be replaced with sword attacks. And his standard B could be change into the "tennis ball of doom" from the Zelda games, acting kinda like wolf's blaster, but a bit slower.

It'd be cool to see Toon Link use some of the other semi-standard Zelda weapons like the Skull Hammer, or Magic Shield. Maybe some even more out-there items like the Deku Leaf or the Iron Boots could work.

 

[buirac]

You got proof for that statement?

Not really. I just remembered people in my country were glad FLUDD was included (before they knew what it would come to be).

I agree that Mario should get another Down-B attack. I'm thinking something along the lines of the Spin Attack from the Galaxy games. Though instead of doing multiple weak hits, Mario hits each enemy once with great force. It could act as a decent finisher move for Mario, and in mid-air, Mario could get a bit of boost in recovery. Also give him some general buffs in terms of overall power. I namely want to see buffs on his Fireball, Forward Smash, Down Smash and Final Smash. They don't need much, just a little extra power. Like the Fireball dealing like 11% damage now or something like that.

Luigi, well not much to say on him. For the most part, he's just fine as he is. But I'd like to see the vacuum be implemented into his set. Namely his throow attacks, since his specials are fine as they are.

Ganondorf should obviously get a handful of changes in the next Smash game. The biggest change I want to see in Ganon is speed. Mind you, he should still be slow, but I think he's better off at his Melee speed, if not ever so slightly faster than that. Give him a sword that would change most of his A attacks, except his Down Smash, Up Smash, Up Tilt, Down Tilt, and Side tilt. Those moves can stay the same, the rest would be replaced with sword attacks. And his standard B could be change into the "tennis ball of doom" from the Zelda games, acting kinda like wolf's blaster, but a bit slower.

It'd be cool to see Toon Link use some of the other semi-standard Zelda weapons like the Skull Hammer, or Magic Shield. Maybe some even more out-there items like the Deku Leaf or the Iron Boots could work.

If Toon Link comes back he MUST have the Deku Leaf as a glider!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think Mario using the cape as a gliding move would be really good, and would add to his character. But that would probably make his recovery OP as ****.

 

[Knight Dude]

I think Mario using the cape as a gliding move would be really good, and would add to his character. But that would probably make his recovery OP as ****.

Yes. That would be amazing. Seriously, I think we need this to happen. Like right now.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Where is the ''Tick all'' box?