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More effective patches?

Foxus

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
620
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Greatfox1
With the announcement of the DLC that will be ending soon, its dawned upon me that while the DLC can stop, there's no reason why the patches can't stop, and always require Sakiurai's supervision. Rather than obsessively nerfing or buffing a certain character, why not "patch up" in other areas, such as:

- Increasing a characters range, both in attacks and recovery.
- Remove invicibility when a opponent initially hits the ground, so the opponent lying on the ground can still be grabbed.
- Quicken the time a character comes back from a KO. Decrease from 5 seconds of absence to 3 at the max. 1 or 2 seconds should be the norm. In a 2-minute match, every second matters.
- Quicken the 5-second countdown, over 2 second pauses between each second.
 

Wintropy

Peace and love and all that jazzmatazz~! <3
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Winterwhite
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With the announcement of the DLC that will be ending soon, its dawned upon me that while the DLC can stop, there's no reason why the patches can't stop, and always require Sakiurai's supervision. Rather than obsessively nerfing or buffing a certain character, why not "patch up" in other areas, such as:

- Increasing a characters range, both in attacks and recovery.
- Remove invicibility when a opponent initially hits the ground, so the opponent lying on the ground can still be grabbed.
- Quicken the time a character comes back from a KO. Decrease from 5 seconds of absence to 3 at the max. 1 or 2 seconds should be the norm. In a 2-minute match, every second matters.
- Quicken the 5-second countdown, over 2 second pauses between each second.
These sound like good ideas in theory, until you consider how they'd function in-game.

Increasing a character's range is not only redefining the fundamental traits of the character in question (something that has never happened in balance patches and probably never will happen), it would have drastic effects on everything from combo potential to how a character fares in certain matchups. While I don't doubt fans of characters with disjointed moves would be happy for some extra range on their blades, it would require a massive adjustment to the rest of the game to ensure it doesn't upset its balance. Recoveries are already very good in this game, so there's no need for them to be buffed even further.

Re-grabbing a downed opponent is called chaingrabbing. It was in Melee and Brawl and it was terrible. It's why characters like Brawl Dedede and Ice Climbers were so easily abused: they could grab characters an infinite number of times until they were weak enough to be killed with a single throw or carried off-stage. They could literally grab the opponent to death, which resulted in unwinnable matchups for weaker characters and disproportionately inflated results for minimal effort. Even characters without chaingrabs could abuse it with certain moves to "lock" the opponent in place indefinitely (Falco's lasers and I think Diddy's bananas could do it), resulting in inescapable combos. It was removed in this game explicitly for that reason. The balance of the game is much healthier without it.

Reducing respawn time doesn't necessarily seem like a bad idea, but bear in mind that time can be beneficial for certain characters: characters with chargeable moves, like Donkey Kong and Mewtwo, can prep their stronger moves, and it gives the player a chance to catch their breath and regroup between stocks. It also means players have to adjust their strategy in a free-for-all or doubles setting, making for a healthier and more dynamic fight. The same goes for reducing the time it takes for the countdown to finish: it's unnecessarily changing the predefined rules of the game without considering how it will affect the game in the wider context. Balancing the game and trying to create equality between very different modes is a very delicate process: if it ain't broke, it definitely does not need to be fixed unless you honestly know what you're doing.
 

Kurri ★

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With the announcement of the DLC that will be ending soon, its dawned upon me that while the DLC can stop, there's no reason why the patches can't stop, and always require Sakiurai's supervision. Rather than obsessively nerfing or buffing a certain character, why not "patch up" in other areas, such as:

- Increasing a characters range, both in attacks and recovery.
- Remove invicibility when a opponent initially hits the ground, so the opponent lying on the ground can still be grabbed.
- Quicken the time a character comes back from a KO. Decrease from 5 seconds of absence to 3 at the max. 1 or 2 seconds should be the norm. In a 2-minute match, every second matters.
- Quicken the 5-second countdown, over 2 second pauses between each second.
Because that's not how balancing works. You can't look at things in a vacuum, but rather, "How does this affect that?"

Increasing recovery range when Smash 4 recoveries are already stupid long could possibly make matches draw out longer.
Quickening the time you come back from K.O may actually be detrimental to the player experience.
Grabbing when your opponent is on the ground is stupid
And I'm not even sure what you mean by the last one.
 

FamilyTeam

This strength serves more than me alone.
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
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2,332
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MontanaCity
I disagree with those points you said, to be honest. I do agree that some patch that changed quite a few things would be nice (like a patch that rebalanced the clones to give them more unique traits), but some of the changes you proposed seem a tad... radical.
For God's sake, we don't need to make recoveries any better than they already are. Unless someone is playing Doc, Ganon or Mac, or gets gimped at a high percent (really high percent for some), I pretty much always see players making their way back on stage even if they almost kiss the blast zone.
Also, I'm fine with the down time between the stocks we currently have. Sure it's annoying when you're high on adrenaline and it feels like it takes an eternity for you to come back, but that's something we've been dealing with since Smash 64, and I don't see why they'd remove it now.
And I do agree that we need less invincibility frames (it seriously feels like you spent half the match invincible in this game) but... I don't think that's how they should fix it.
 

Foxus

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
620
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Greatfox1
Because that's not how balancing works. You can't look at things in a vacuum, but rather, "How does this affect that?"

Increasing recovery range when Smash 4 recoveries are already stupid long could possibly make matches draw out longer.
Quickening the time you come back from K.O may actually be detrimental to the player experience.
Grabbing when your opponent is on the ground is stupid
And I'm not even sure what you mean by the last one.
How would it be detrimental? I'm curious.

And sorry that I didn't make myself more clear. Next time you fight, pay attention to how long it takes for the announcer to count down the last 5-3 seconds of a match. You'll see what I'm talking about.

And the "grabbing on the ground" part was merely just a example.
 

CrazyPerson

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
436
I don't think I want to see any fundamental changes to the game... though continued balance patches would be nice... if they did a better job. (I do not understand the Falcon nerfs... and something needs to be done about Shiek as hard as that would be to do without losing what the character is.)

With that said... there is no way to make a perfectly balanced game... 53 characters and counting that are very different but equal potential... that is impossible. (:4link:/:4tlink: :4pit:/:4darkpit:, :4mario:/:4drmario:,:4marth:/:4lucina:/:4feroy:, :4ness:/:4lucas: :4fox:/:4falco:, :4falcon:/:4ganondorf: are the obvious exceptions... cut from the same cloth but are still different... but not the same "very different" as any other comparison where a first time player who knows nothing about the game can see differences.) Even so, the point stands with 46 characters).. soon as devs get close to that, some player will find that advantage that puts one above others... and we are back to viable and not viable characters at the top level.

That is about the only thing I think would be done if patches continued... save maybe terrible bug fix. Even so... I am not sure anyone will continue that once Sakuri and team disband... and our game will be set and we will lose hope that those we hate playing against get nerfed or our characters get buffed.

With as long as the lifespan of Smash tends to be... I had hoped DLC would go on longer... but still should be a great game for years until it's sequal comes out. (I know some people still play older ones and that is fine... but I suspect most players especially those not involved with high level compeition switch to the new one.)
 
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