Missed opportunities with custom specials?

[KingTeo]

I always found it weird how only 2 or 3 characters were given completely unique specials while the majority of the custom specials were just barely any different. In most cases it was the same exact attack with an extra effect added or slight damage modifications. Anyone else come up with cool ideas for character customs?

Link in particular was a pretty big disappointment. Not even because he's an old favorite of mine, but because in every Legend of Zelda installment he gets a plethora of gadgets to use, but no one decided it would be cool too see them as customs.

Spoiler

Magic Spin attack(instead of Shocking spin attack) - A chargable spin attack that allows Link to slowly move while charging. has 3 stages: Normal sword, blue charge, red charge. All stages have slower recovery than the default spin attack, and the uncharged version of this is weaker, but each stage grants it more power and longer range.

Sail Cloth(instead of whirling leap) - Link pulls out his tablecloth and a big gust of wind blows him upward. Maybe he can keep hanging onto the cloth for a float effect like peach's umbrella, or maybe he can't keep his grip once it gets to the top. Always thought the whirling leap was kind of lazy since the animation is exactly the same as an attack animation, but it doesn't do damage.

Light arrow(instead of Quick Fire bow) - It could operate exactly the same as the quick fire bow, but with a different animation/effect.

Slingshot - It could have been one of the customs for Link's bow even though it doesn't replace anything. It can be held, but it doesn't charge and deals less damage than an arrow, and goes at a relatively average speed, but allows you to aim it up and down.

Powder Keg(instead of large bomb) - It could operate practically exactly the same but with a different appearance than an upsized bomb.

Mirror shield - Link pulls out the mirror shield from hammer space aand it can be used as a reflector. He takes a classic blocking stance with his body lowered very close to the ground for a reason as to why he can't move with it active.

I'm sure there are other items that would have made awesome choices for custom specials like the Skull/Megaton Hammer, the Bombchu/Bombling, Ball and Chain, etc.

Another few characters that I feel they really dropped the all on was Lucario, Pikachu, and Charizard with the literal hundreds of moves that he could have been able to do and Ganondorf not even having a couple watered down special moves that he's been able to do as a boss in LoZ games.

as a fan of Punch out I also wouldn't have minded it very much if Little Mac took some signature moves from some of the people in his games since no one from Punch Out made an appearance as an assist trophy. Bald bull's charge, Great Tigers flashing and teleport shenanigans as a counter, etc.

431

 

[the8thark]

Magic Spin would be nice. And something very different.
Sail Cloth is more a Young/Toon Link thing.
Light Arrow is more associated with Princess Zelda as she initially owns it and gives it to Link in Ocarina. And it's Zelda's spacial attack in Hyrule Warriors.
Slingshot - Sail Cloth is more a Young/Toon Link thing.
Powder Keg - I vaguely rememver that as a Goron mask only thing from Majora's Mask. And the use of that mask is a Young Link think as well.
Mirror Shield - I think this would be a very good idea. You could also call this "reflect" from Zelda 2. Same thing in reality.

Other choices?

Random Bow - Shoots one of the 3 following arrows at random.
Fire Arrow - Explodes on anything that it hits with a small aoe damage radius to anything caught in the aoe
Ice Arrow - Slows anything it hits for a few seconds and damages them
Light Arrow - Pierces through all enemy targets and assist trophies currently in use damaging everything it hits. It stops when it hits a wall or the floor or falls off the screen.

Boot Swap - swap between three different boots. Does no damage but affects how Link plays.
Standard Boots - plays as normal.
Iron Boots - Heavier, is knocked back less and Link moves slower and does not jump as high.
Hover Boots - Link can walk off ledges and not fall for a few seconds (just like in Ocarina). With these boots on, Link would skid a little when moving and be knocked a little more when hit.

When I think of more I'll let you know.

 

[Niner]

Exploding tree for the villager.
Tell me I'm not the only one who wanted this.

 

[KingTeo]

Magic Spin would be nice. And something very different.
Sail Cloth is more a Young/Toon Link thing.
Light Arrow is more associated with Princess Zelda as she initially owns it and gives it to Link in Ocarina. And it's Zelda's spacial attack in Hyrule Warriors.
Slingshot - Sail Cloth is more a Young/Toon Link thing.
Powder Keg - I vaguely rememver that as a Goron mask only thing from Majora's Mask. And the use of that mask is a Young Link think as well.
Mirror Shield - I think this would be a very good idea. You could also call this "reflect" from Zelda 2. Same thing in reality.

Other choices?

Random Bow - Shoots one of the 3 following arrows at random.
Fire Arrow - Explodes on anything that it hits with a small aoe damage radius to anything caught in the aoe
Ice Arrow - Slows anything it hits for a few seconds and damages them
Light Arrow - Pierces through all enemy targets and assist trophies currently in use damaging everything it hits. It stops when it hits a wall or the floor or falls off the screen.

Boot Swap - swap between three different boots. Does no damage but affects how Link plays.
Standard Boots - plays as normal.
Iron Boots - Heavier, is knocked back less and Link moves slower and does not jump as high.
Hover Boots - Link can walk off ledges and not fall for a few seconds (just like in Ocarina). With these boots on, Link would skid a little when moving and be knocked a little more when hit.

If the light arrow is too closely associated with Zelda it could always be replaced with the bomb arrow.

i know it was a goron mask thing but maybe an adult would be able to carry it as well? The ideas aren't 100% canon but I still think it works. And yea I was about to add the boots thing too, but I thought it was a little too similar to Shulk's monado. 430.

 

[the8thark]

If the light arrow is too closely associated with Zelda it could always be replaced with the bomb arrow.

i know it was a goron mask thing but maybe an adult would be able to carry it as well? The ideas aren't 100% canon but I still think it works. And yea I was about to add the boots thing too, but I thought it was a little too similar to Shulk's monado. 430.

You know what I always wanted? A Majora's Mask Link. As in basically the pokemon trainer from brawl but instead of 3 pokemon, you have deku scrub, goron and zora version of Link from MM. Will not ever happen because old 3DS. But it would be a cool idea.

I guess adult link could drag the powder keg bomb around. You could make it work.
And I do not see an issue with Link have the light arrow as I said above randomly and Zelda to have a light arrow as well. Links would be different and up to chance if shoot it or not. But if you made a bomb arrow (instead of the light arrow) then you'd just change the fire arrow to do lingering damage for a few seconds (ie the player is on fore for a few seconds).
The other option is to rename the light arrow -> silver arrow for Link. That's from Zelda 1 and Zelda 3.

 

[KingTeo]

Custom abilities for Little Mac

Spoiler

Mirage Dance(counter custom) - On activation Little Mac disappears and teleports twice, punching once each time he reappears. Does less damage than a normal counter and has a set knockback that's very close to allow a follow up.

Bald Bull Rush(straight lunge special) - Similar to the straight lunge but ends with an uppercut and breaks shields easily.

Sandman Counter(counter custom) - Counter stance is Mac hanging his left arm limp. Connecting it stuns people if they're on the ground.

Star uppercut(Spinning Uppercut custom) - Hits once, has a very small window, is very nerfed damage-wise in the air, and is stronger and has higher knockback than the standard Spinning Uppercut.429

 

[ZaneHitsurugi]

I would have loved to see a custom move for Captain Falcon that was based on that Falcon Punch that he did in the anime.

 

[chipndip]

I don't mind custom moves too much in this game, because they're just supposed to be slight variations to what's already established. However, what I DO mind is using them in competitive play. If they were truly meant for that, they wouldn't be restricted to such a random method of unlocking them + they would transfer between versions. This is going to be downright HORRID for tourney play on the Wii U version if certain setups don't have the right moves. The real miss-fire is that they weren't all available from the start, or, to the very least, unlocking them isn't simple enough and quick enough for reliable usage in a fair, competitive setting.

 

[KingTeo]

I don't mind custom moves too much in this game, because they're just supposed to be slight variations to what's already established. However, what I DO mind is using them in competitive play. If they were truly meant for that, they wouldn't be restricted to such a random method of unlocking them + they would transfer between versions. This is going to be downright HORRID for tourney play on the Wii U version if certain setups don't have the right moves. The real miss-fire is that they weren't all available from the start, or, to the very least, unlocking them isn't simple enough and quick enough for reliable usage in a fair, competitive setting.

The way I see it, it was always a party foul to bring your system to a party and not have everything unlocked. Going to an official tournament should warrant whoever is bringing the systems to prepare accordingly beforehand and have everything unlocked already. As for the 3ds version, you should prepare yourself for the tournament accordingly too and if you don't unlock the custom moves that you want beforehand, then that's both: not anyone else's problem, and still pretty fair since customs are usually more trade-offs than upgrades.


You can't really say that the people who made Sm4sh never meant for custom moves to be used competitively since even though they are supporting competitive play now more than they were ever before, it's still a party game. Custom moves aren't integral to the characters so it makes sense to have them unlockable.

428

 

[ChikoLad]

I would have loved to see a custom move for Captain Falcon that was based on that Falcon Punch that he did in the anime.

If custom Final Smashes were a thing, that would certainly be one.

--------

In terms of custom moves, there are some characters besides Palutena and Miis that get some interesting variance in their customs, even though the animations are similar. Rosalina, Sonic, and Mega Man, to name a few. Mega Man in particular actually gets alternate weapon representation from his different games (such as one of the customs for Metal Blade, from Mega Man 2, being Hyper Bomb, from Mega Man 1).

 

[KingTeo]

If custom Final Smashes were a thing, that would certainly be one.

--------

In terms of custom moves, there are some characters besides Palutena and Miis that get some interesting variance in their customs, even though the animations are similar. Rosalina, Sonic, and Mega Man, to name a few. Mega Man in particular actually gets alternate weapon representation from his different games (such as one of the customs for Metal Blade, from Mega Man 2, being Hyper Bomb, from Mega Man 1).

A falcon punch that takes a full 3 seconds to charge and has an enourmous hitbox of a giant white explosion with the sweet spot being right in the middle?


427

 

[ChikoLad]

A falcon punch that takes a full 3 seconds to charge and has an enourmous hitbox of a giant white explosion with the sweet spot being right in the middle?


427

Not what I had in mind, but that's probably a more fair version than what I was thinking of.

 

[Lemon Girl]

No Shoulder Charge or butt stomp for Wario, I mean come on! those are signature Wario moves on his games, it's like Sakurai doesn't even know about Wario Land's existence.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Hover, Turbo, and Rocket Nozzles for FLUDD.


The ability to throw arcing hammers, like he does in the main series Mario games.


Using the blaster he has holstered to his leg...though quite honestly he doesn't need it because he is a bad***.


Having the Dark Pit Staff as part of his main moveset instead of being a Final Smash FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Lack of Ore Club, Gemini Orbiters, Pandora Claws, and other weapons he could have used and would've made sense.


The ability to throw his hammer and then spawn a new one, like he can in recent Kirby games.
Tornado Hammer (Masked DeDeDe).
Hammer variant that causes a shockwave.


Not having an Electric Uppercut, instead of a Fire Uppercut. Would've made more sense with him.


Not having a good variant of Blaster. *sighs*


Dark Magic projectiles, anyone?


Oil Panic as a trap-based move. Puts oil on the ground that people can slip on, similar to how you could on Flat Zone.


Not having Fairy-based moves.
Flying version of Rest can't grab ledges.
What were they even thinking with Symphony lmfao


Burning Tackle as a Side B variant.
Throw Kirby as a Neutral B variant.
Needle as a Down B variant.
Fighter Uppercut as an Up B variant.
Wheel Kirby as a Side B variant.
Tons, and tons, and tons of missed opportunities here. :/


Pretty much anything you can think of.


Customs that are different from Marth to make her stand out more.


No Thunderhand. :/
Down B variant that slowly floats to the ground, ala Super Mario 64 DS backflip. Would help his recovery a lot.


No Jewel Satellite.
Crash Bomb can be stuck back to you, boooooooo...
Other than that I would say that they did a pretty good job on his custom moves, personally.


A variant of Mach Tornado you can charge and then shoot as a projectile, similar to how he can as a boss in the Kirby games. (Mii Swordsman can kind of do this btw, minus the charge)


PK Fire variant that could automatically ignite upon contact with the ground. (Robin and Mii Gunner can do this)


Rock Pikmin


Ice Beam, Wave Beam, Ice Missiles, Ice Bombs, Flamethrower Beam, etc...just...just why, Sakurai?


Monado Purge.


I would say the projectile shockwave he can do in Sonic Battle, though I can imagine him being a huge **** with it lol
A bounce ability that, uh...actually bounces off of the ground...
A Side/Neutral B variant that lets him throw a ring, and then chase it ala Sonic Battle.
MAGIC HANDS FROM SAB2...anyone? No? Nevermind lol
Probably other stuff/can't remember.


Shoulder Bash. (Seriously...HUGE missed opportunity here)
Earthquake Punch. (Wario Land Shake It)
Ground Pound. (Honestly makes a ton of sense for him)


Eggs similar to Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, where you can aim them and bounce them off of the ground. (Weak damage/nerfed range to compensate)
Yoshi Shoulder Bash, from Yoshi's Island DS (when you have DK with you)

 

[Cornstalk]

I don't mind custom moves too much in this game, because they're just supposed to be slight variations to what's already established. However, what I DO mind is using them in competitive play. If they were truly meant for that, they wouldn't be restricted to such a random method of unlocking them + they would transfer between versions. This is going to be downright HORRID for tourney play on the Wii U version if certain setups don't have the right moves. The real miss-fire is that they weren't all available from the start, or, to the very least, unlocking them isn't simple enough and quick enough for reliable usage in a fair, competitive setting.

15 hours of single player mode, mostly spent specifically trying to get custom moves. I didn't even get half of the 384(?) there are to unlock. What's worse, custom moves are tied together with equipment, so there's at least a small issue of trust from the equipment side of it.

For example: I have a mix of parts with negative effects that gives 74 to attack, 30 some to defense, and 30 some to speed, but the negative effects reduce run speed, throw item power, and... something else. You wouldn't even notice something was odd because the character would run about the same speed. You'd have to know how much damage their moves normally do or catch that your moves were doing 1-2% less damage and KO'ing 5-10% later to even realize something was wrong.

Thankfully, this can be solved simply by showing your character pick with the equipment dot being white. But still...


For now, action reply is a band-aid for the random unlocks. They're basically a glorified save editing service, but damn was that $30 worth it to no have to play through classic or smash run anymore. For 3DS, all it takes is someone with a computer, and internet connect, and a valid action reply to unlock all the customs for you at a tournament.

From the 54 facts about the Wii U version, they implied that your custom sets could be uploaded from the 3DS version. So as long as someone has a 3DS present with everything unlocked, we should (in theory) be able to make your custom build there and upload it, even if the Wii U has nothing unlocked custom wise.

 

[cstonic]

Sonic should've got completely different custom moves.

It would've been nice to see light speed attack, boost/air boosts, sonic battle attacks, and possibly some wisps.

Examples
Down 2-Spikes Wisp
Slightly weaker spin dash but allows sonic to cling to the stage while in his spin. He can go around the whole
stage fully charged. (It can combo similar to the Spin Charge but just not as well)
Down 3-Drill Wisp or Burrowing Spin Dash (from Sonic Battle)
Drill Wisp
Sonic digs into the ground using the Drill Wisp. (The way you maneuver is pretty similar to Sonic Colors' version of it.) When underground he casts a shadow similar to Greninja's shadow sneak. You can use the shadow to know where you are. When you resurface the drill jumps out of the ground and does a multi-hit attack that's great for racking up damage. (Like 25 damage)
The drill is great for comboing. You use an aerial right after popping out of the ground. The drawback of it is that it's easy to avoid due to shadow.

Neutral 2
Light Speed Attack
Sonic does a homing attack that charges WAY faster, can home in on multiple enemies,better range,weaker damage. Great for doubles. If sonic doesn't home in on anyone he enters special fall.

Neutral 3
Spin Bounce
Basically what his neutral 2 already is smash 4 without charge and can spike. (Not completely sure if Stomp spikes or not...) It's also spammable. So you Spin Bounce again right after spiking or bouncing of the stage.

Up 2
Rocket Wisp
Sonic uses the Rocket Wisp to fly in
the air just like in Sonic Colors. It goes as high as the spring.
The Rocket wisp can combo. The entire flight is multi-hit and explodes at the end. After the explosion, sonic goes into special fall but a special kind.
He sorta glides a bit. (So he descends REALLY slowly and can maneuver pretty well. Think Peach's parasol)
Making it a little easier to recover. The drawback is that he can't attack in the special fall ,leaving him open to spikes and other punishes.

Side 2
Boost and Air Boost
Sonic runs along the ground at top speed. (Pretty much a fully charged Roll out without any charge and can go through opponents you hit) There's a lot knockback and damage. (29 damage)
So it can kill pretty easily. You can use it the air too. It's great for recovering and killing in the air (He enters special fall right afterwards so be careful)
One more thing though, there's a meter to this similar to that of Little Mac. Although, it can get filled by attacking opponents. It'll get lowered if you get attacked.
There a few drawbacks too. It does almost nothing to a shield. Your jumps in this state are really low.
And, if you boost off a ledge you'll enter special fall. So you can't use this move recklessly.

Most of my ideas.

 

[chipndip]

The way I see it, it was always a party foul to bring your system to a party and not have everything unlocked. Going to an official tournament should warrant whoever is bringing the systems to prepare accordingly beforehand and have everything unlocked already. As for the 3ds version, you should prepare yourself for the tournament accordingly too and if you don't unlock the custom moves that you want beforehand, then that's both: not anyone else's problem, and still pretty fair since customs are usually more trade-offs than upgrades.


You can't really say that the people who made Sm4sh never meant for custom moves to be used competitively since even though they are supporting competitive play now more than they were ever before, it's still a party game. Custom moves aren't integral to the characters so it makes sense to have them unlockable.

428

Here's the thing:

1) For Glory doesn't allow them. Yes, it's full of scrubs, but it's also telling of their expectations of what competitive play for this game would/could/should be like. The fact that someone could be disadvantaged by the rng of the game...I think that's what they were looking into and decided to cut the problem at the root.

2) Filling any and every Wii U with every single randomly unlocked custom move is no guarantee, and a HUGE effort per system. It's really a problem with practicality, especially since you can unlock the same move multiple times over. It's not comparable to unlocking the roster in a game or buying the dlc. It's literally a race against clocks using rng as the car. You can't blame me for not having it unlocked on a Wii U that isn't mine, so what can I do in the middle of a tournament if I wanted a specific move that isn't there?

3) Yea, Smash has a "for fun" side to it. Always has. Not sure why we're steadily mixing the two together with this iteration of Smash. I mean, why are some bone-headed moves like making Arena Ferox and Tomadochi playable stages a thing? What's up with 3 stocks/8 minutes in 2/3 sets, as if I have that much time of day to dedicate to one singular tournament? They literally handed us a perfectly good format for competitive play on a platter and it got bypassed like it was nothing in favor of something that's just far more problematic. Now we're asking all these silly questions. Tada! >_>

 

[Roukiske]

First thing I thought of when I heard of custom specials was Street Fighter 3: Third Strike. Characters were able to switch between 3 different super arts. Sure, some were better than others, but depending on your playstyle you could definitely use one that you liked.

I do feel they got lazy with the custom moves. Makes sense since they didn't bother to balance them as they said, but it definitely was a missed opportunity for something cool. Also, the ability to just switch your moves on the fly on CSS would have been easy to implement (unless you can... which I didn't know).

 

[OddCrow]

It would have been cool for Villager to have neutral special where they throw a random piece of furniture. Also, a tree that sends a bee after who ever hits/touches it. And maybe a Rock->Shovel->flying money bag down special

 

[WhiteCane]

DK could've been giving his Coconut Gun just to give him some projectile game.

Mario like Link has a million and 1 options personally I want his Hammer that can work like a counter but has attack power, and Ice Balls.

Like Yoshi tho went through a time rift and learned to break physics! (What even is this lol)

 

[OddCrow]

DK could've been giving his Coconut Gun just to give him some projectile game.

You have no idea how many times I've suggested this. Forward B fires 1 fast coconut, or double tap to fire in bursts and fire 2 slow coconuts. Have them travel 1/2 FD and do little damage but good hitstun