Mindgames and conditioning

[koken]

Hey guys, here I am again (yes... again, so annoying Koken).

This time I want to start the discussion about mindgames and conditioning, 'cause I have seen almost nothing about this topic.

Sheik needs to be fast, Robin needs to be tactical, Little Mac needs to put pressure, and goes on.

What's left to us? Mindgames? Condition your opponent? Run?

In my opinion, I need to learn to condition my enemies and I think we have a lot to work on this issue, because as a Marth secondary, I have noticed that almost everyone air dodge my approach when their are recovering, making it easier to punish with Up B and crushing them against the platform. Surely we could do something "safe" like this.

We need the mind games, as it says, sometimes using Up B to avoid a dash attack or grab, falling with Nair. Maybe 2 missed grabs and going for the 3rd to change it to a Fair, dash attack, simple just playing mental tricks and this can go on.

Sometimes we tend to "run" from the combat to pivot smash or grab, or when we are out of pikmin and they comes to us, pluck and smash. The best example ever is when they approach and you Fsmash his shield to Fsmash his OoS.

Does Olimar fits this style?
Do you usually condition your enemy to something?
At edge guard, do you use Fsmash till the enemy recover from ledge?
When they start to jump above you, do you keep forward smashing to condition him and punish their jump?
What are your mind games?
It is doable this kind of game with Olimar?

It's up to you guys, so share the knowledge :D.

 

[Myran]

Olimar is a character who thrives off tricking his opponent into doing the wrong thing. Olimar's frame data isn't the greatest, but he does a couple things to make up for this. First off people are scared of him, he has ridiculous kill power that he can throw out effortlessly, and he wracks up damage incredibly fast. Knowing that you can start to scare your opponent into making bad decisions and letting you punish them. For instance, and this works best on players I haven't played before (Even some higher level players) I can run up to someone, wait for them to spot dodge out of fear then get a free smash. Another method which I'd say most Olimar players do whether they know it or not is throwing Pikmin constantly onto the opponent until they get them off, but when they get them off you punish. You're creating scenarios where you would have no punish, but instead of taking Pikmin off safely or leaving them on for some minimal damage they give you the chance to wrack up even more off a hit.

My biggest tip to anyone looking to get more into this is be very aware of your opponents defensive patterns. Understand why they're doing them, and what you can do to push it into your favor.

 

[Indexxical!]

My biggest tip to anyone looking to get more into this is be very aware of your opponents defensive patterns. Understand why they're doing them, and what you can do to push it into your favor.

Super agreed. I would advise doing this with all characters, but especially with the 'mar. He's even lighter in this game than he was in brawl.

I like using the whistle to annoy people when I'm recovering just for kicks and giggles. Almost like an off the edge taunt if you will.

Otherwise, I would seriously advise using the whistle if you want a variation of mindgames. If opponents are paying attention to your line, you could make them think you're shuffling for that blue to get a killing grab, but really you're up to some other type of tomfoolery...

 

[koken]

Super agreed. I would advise doing this with all characters, but especially with the 'mar. He's even lighter in this game than he was in brawl.

I like using the whistle to annoy people when I'm recovering just for kicks and giggles. Almost like an off the edge taunt if you will.

Otherwise, I would seriously advise using the whistle if you want a variation of mindgames. If opponents are paying attention to your line, you could make them think you're shuffling for that blue to get a killing grab, but really you're up to some other type of tomfoolery...

I never thought about this and absolutely made my mind explode jajaja, just like the typical "why didn't I think about this before?!" xD. Nice info, thank you :D.

Something that almost every player fighting against us do and it is because we repeat it a lot, is dashing grab. Yesterday I went to a game shop where you can play, I don't how it's called on USA but it's like a "Fighting Games Dojo".
I was practicing with a friend and I discover that every time I was dashing towards him, he knew I will grab him, so he spot dodged and punished every approach, even when he was with a pikmin latched on.
So I decided to change the way I approach to a short hop + dodge + Bair instead, and absolutely changed everything.
I think the reasons are:

1. Bair pushes your enemy further if they shield it, more than Fair may do it. This, of course, doesn't happen if he uses power/perfect shield.
   The bad thing is that you have more ending lag due to Bair than Fair.
2. It is unpredictable and unexpected coming from an Olimar to do this, so it may be tricky.

Also I tried something that may need further investigation and testing, but it tend to work at first glance. Anyway I would prefer you check it out and give me your opinions.
When your enemy is recovering, I used 2 side B and immediately go to gimp his recovery, assuming you have 3 pikmin obviously.

• If he dodge your pikmin, which I'm pretty sure he wouldn't, then might not be able to dodge your Fair because it will be too low to recover.
• If he doesn't dodge your pikmin, but it dodge your Fair, it will have a pikmin latched on and may affect his recovery. May give you time to try a Bair also.
• This may need some precision in order to accomplish the maneuver.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

A thing I like doing vs fast fallers (especially Capt Falcon) is switching up the standard dtilt > jab > grab for dtilt > jab > bait the spot dodge and charge fsmash. Lots of fun, especially vs opponents who are good at making reads. Hit them once with the mixup and it shakes their confidence.

And at low %s instead of dthrow>fair sometimes I'll dthrow>side b white and then follow their landing with whatever is applicable. The white usually doesn't rack up more than 6% but sometimes you can get a jab > grab off the landing and it ends up being way more profitable than any single aerial. It's a gamble but it keeps your opponent guessing and that's always a good thing.