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Mewtwo's Up Throw Kill Percents

LRodC

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Disclaimer: For the first two columns, every character was at the center of Final Destination in Training Mode on the Wii U version, and therefore there was no rage or staleness involved in these values. The same goes for the third column, except that those values were tested on the 3DS version. Credit goes to Aninymouse Aninymouse for testing the KO percentages on the 3DS version.

The chart is separated into whether the opponent DIs correctly or does not DI at all/has poor DI. Mewtwo's up throw is DIed by tilting the left stick/circle pad left or right. Mewtwo's up throw will KO the character all the time at the "KO % With Proper DI" percent on FD unless the move is stale or you're on the 3DS version, in which you should look at the right most column. It could also potentially kill earlier than the percents listed depending on how much rage you have. So if you have a lot of rage and your opponent is a little bit below these KO percents, it may just be worth your while to try and see if the throw is strong enough to kill.

Wii U Percents Updated as of Patch 1.1.6

Character|KO % Without DI (Wii U)|KO % With Proper DI (Wii U)|KO % Without DI (3DS)
Mario:4mario:|133%| 135%|142%
Luigi:4luigi:|127%| 129%|136%
Peach:4peach: |121% |124%|131%
Bowser:4bowser: |148%| 151%|156%
Yoshi :4yoshi:|132% |135%|142%
Rosalina & Luma:rosalina:|115% |117%
Bowser Jr.:4bowserjr:& Koopalings:4larry:|143%| 145%|153%
Wario:4wario::4wario2:|138% |140%|148%
Donkey Kong:4dk: |154% |157%|168%
Diddy Kong:4diddy: |133% |136%|143%
Mr. Game and Watch:4gaw:|109% |112%|118%
Little Mac:4littlemac::4wiremac: |132% |133%|141%
Link:4link: |140% |142%|150%
Zelda:4zelda: |122% |124%|132%
Sheik:4sheik: |119% |121%
Ganondorf:4ganondorf:|145% |148%|159%
Toon Link:4tlink:|124% |126%|134%
Samus:4samus:|138% |141%|150%
Zero Suit Samus:4zss: |124%|126%
Pit:4pit:|133% |135%|143%
Palutena:4palutena:|123% |125%|132%
Marth:4marth:|133% |135%|142%
Ike:4myfriends: |145% |148%|155%
Robin:4robinm::4robinf: |132% |135%|142%
Duck Hunt:4duckhunt: |135% |137%|144%
Kirby:4kirby: |116% |119%|124%
King Dedede:4dedede:|163% |166%|174%
Meta Knight:4metaknight:|119% |122%|129%
Fox:4fox:|120%| 123%|129%
Falco:4falco:|124% |127%|133%
Pikachu:4pikachu: |117% |119%|126%
Charizard:4charizard: |137% |140%|147%
Lucario:4lucario: |142%| 144%|152%
Jigglypuff:4jigglypuff: |105% |108%|113%
Greninja:4greninja: |124%| 127%|134%
R.O.B.:4rob: |138% |140%|147%
Ness:4ness: |126%| 128%|135%
Captain Falcon:4falcon:| 145% |148%|155%
Villager:4villager::4villagerf:| 128%| 131%|137%
Olimar:4olimar: & Alph:4alph:|118% |120%|126%
Wii Fit Trainer:4wiifit::4wiifitm:| 126%| 128%|136%
Shulk:4shulk:| 138% |141%|147%
Shulk Jump :4shulk:| 141%| 144%
Shulk Speed :4shulk:|138%|141%
Shulk Buster :4shulk:| 136%| 139%
Shulk Shield :4shulk:| 221%| 225%|243%
Shulk Smash :4shulk:| 119%| 122%
Dr. Mario:4drmario:|133%| 135%|142%
Dark Pit:4darkpit:|133% |135%|143%
Lucina:4lucina:|132% |135%|142%
Pac-Man:4pacman:|129% |131%|139%
Mega Man:4megaman:| 142% |145%|153%
Sonic:4sonic:|129%| 132%|138%
Mewtwo:4mewtwo:|117% |119%|124%
Lucas:4lucas:| 125% |128%|134%
Roy:4feroy:|137% |140%|147%
Ryu:4ryu:|137%| 140%|147%
Cloud:4cloud::4cloud2:|140%| 143%|150%
Cloud With Limit :4cloud::4cloud2:| 145%| 147%|155%
Corrin:4corrin::4corrinf:|137%|140%|
Bayonetta:4bayonetta::4bayonetta2:|129%|132%|
Mii Brawler (Smallest):4mii::4miibrawl:|136%|138%|
Mii Brawler (Guest):4mii::4miibrawl:|138%|141%
Mii Brawler (Largest):4mii::4miibrawl:|139%|142%
Mii Swordfighter (Smallest):4mii::4miisword:|133%|136%|
Mii Swordfighter (Guest):4mii::4miisword:|135%|138%|
Mii Swordfighter (Largest):4mii::4miisword:|137%|139%|
Mii Gunner (Smallest):4miif::4miigun:|130%|133%|
Mii Gunner (Guest):4miif::4miigun:|132%|135%|
Mii Gunner (Largest):4miif::4miigun:|133%|136%|

 
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LRodC

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You think you can make a chart with rage?
It would take a while but I can do that if people really want it. I'd probably need help though. Took like an hour to properly test half the roster for the info I have in the OP now so I can't imagine how much longer it would be to test rage for everyone at 50%, 100%, and 150%, and do it again with proper DI.

Actually, what do you guys think? Should I bother with the raw values without DI and just focus on the ones with DI for the worst case scenario? Good opponents will always DI the throw anyway so I'm not sure. It's only a 1-4% difference at best and it would make rage easier to test for as well.
 
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Sonicninja115

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It would take a while but I can do that if people really want it. I'd probably need help though. Took like an hour to properly test half the roster for the info I have in the OP now so I can't imagine how much longer it would be to test rage for everyone at 50%, 100%, and 150%, and do it again with proper DI.

Actually, what do you guys think? Should I bother with the raw values without DI and just focus on the ones with DI for the worst case scenario? Good opponents will always DI the throw anyway so I'm not sure. It's only a 1-4% difference at best and it would make rage easier to test for as well.
Some people might eventually need the data. So it is probably a good idea.

I will ask the mechanics and techniques board if there is a mathematical equation for rage.
 

Aninymouse

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Fantastic work, LRodC LRodC

I can work on getting you 3DS numbers, but I have no way to get you DI numbers or accurate rage numbers (no 2nd copy of the game, no person I know with the game). However, it's at least something.

I'll message you the info when I have it.
 

LRodC

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Fantastic work, LRodC LRodC

I can work on getting you 3DS numbers, but I have no way to get you DI numbers or accurate rage numbers (no 2nd copy of the game, no person I know with the game). However, it's at least something.

I'll message you the info when I have it.
Thanks a lot. That's fine if you can't get the DI numbers, it's hard to get them on the 3DS without someone else.

I'll finish the rest of the characters on the Wii U version tonight including the Miis.
 
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Great work on this, must be taking a lot of work to compile. Can't wait to see the rest of the characters.

lol at :4dedede: not dying until 166% though (with proper DI anyway). Pretty much reinforces the big 'ol penguin lives forever.
 

Aninymouse

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Here's my 3DS numbers, so far. I'm missing a couple oddballs. If someone wants to format/beautify my data, go for it!

3DS Final Destination, Training Mode, no rage, no staling, no confirmation on any DI (some CPUs like Donkey Kong appear to DI my Uthrow every time, while others don't, though I have nothing but the visuals to go off of):

Mario & Dr. Mario: 142%
Luigi: 136%
Peach: 131%
Bowser: 156%
Yoshi: 142%
Rosalina: 124%
Bowser Jr.: 153%
Wario: 148%
Mr. Game & Watch: 118%
Donkey Kong: 168%
Diddy Kong: 143%
Link: 150%
Zelda: 132%
Shiek: 130%
Ganondorf: 159%
Toon Link: 134%
Samus: 150%
Zero Suit Samus: 134%
Pit & Dark Pit: 143%
Palutena: 132%
Marth & Lucina: 142%
Ike: 155%
Robin: 142%
Kirby: 124%
King DeDeDe: 174%
Meta Knight: 129%
Little Mac: 141%
Fox: 129%
Falco: 133%
Wolf: 0% ;_;
Pikachu: 126%
Charizard: 147%
Lucario: 152%
Jigglypuff: 113%
Greninja: 134%
Duck Hunt: 144%
R.O.B.: 147%
Ness: 135%
Captain Falcon: 155%
Villager: 137%
Olimar: 126%
Wii Fit Trainer: 136%
Shulk - normal: 147%
Shulk - Shield: 243%
Pac-Man: 139%
Megaman: 153%
Sonic: 138%
Mewtwo: 124%
Lucas: 134%
Roy: 147%
Ryu: 147%
Cloud: 150%
Mii Brawler - shortest/skinniest: 147%
Mii Brawler - default: 148%
Mii Swordfighter - shortest/fattest: 149%
Mii Swordfighter - default: 145%
Mii Gunner - shortest/fattest: 145%
Mii Gunner - default: 142%

Kinda interesting how different the numbers are, huh?
 

LRodC

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Here's my 3DS numbers, so far. I'm missing a couple oddballs. If someone wants to format/beautify my data, go for it!

3DS Final Destination, Training Mode, no rage, no staling, no confirmation on any DI (some CPUs like Donkey Kong appear to DI my Uthrow every time, while others don't, though I have nothing but the visuals to go off of):

Mario & Dr. Mario: 142%
Luigi: 136%
Peach: 131%
Bowser: 156%
Yoshi: 142%
Rosalina: 124%
Bowser Jr.: 153%
Wario: 148%
Mr. Game & Watch: 118%
Donkey Kong: 168%
Diddy Kong: 143%
Link: 150%
Zelda: 132%
Shiek: 130%
Ganondorf: 159%
Toon Link: 134%
Samus: 150%
Zero Suit Samus: 134%
Pit & Dark Pit: 143%
Palutena: 132%
Marth & Lucina: 142%
Ike: 155%
Robin: 142%
Kirby: 124%
King DeDeDe: 174%
Meta Knight: 129%
Little Mac: 141%
Fox: 129%
Falco: 133%
Wolf: 0% ;_;
Pikachu: 126%
Charizard: 147%
Lucario: 152%
Jigglypuff: 113%
Greninja: 134%
Duck Hunt: 144%
R.O.B.: 147%
Ness: 135%
Captain Falcon: 155%
Villager: 137%
Olimar: 126%
Wii Fit Trainer: 136%
Shulk - normal: 147%
Shulk - Shield: 243%
Pac-Man: 139%
Megaman: 153%
Sonic: 138%
Mewtwo: 124%
Lucas: 134%
Roy: 147%
Ryu: 147%
Cloud: 150%
Mii Brawler - shortest/skinniest: 147%
Mii Brawler - default: 148%
Mii Swordfighter - shortest/fattest: 149%
Mii Swordfighter - default: 145%
Mii Gunner - shortest/fattest: 145%
Mii Gunner - default: 142%

Kinda interesting how different the numbers are, huh?
Thanks a ton for doing this. I'll add this to the OP. Oddly enough, Lucina dies 1% earlier than Marth without DI, so I had to separate them. Also I know it's tough to test Shulk's Monado arts on 3DS, so I'll leave them blank for now aside from the ones you have. I got Cloud's Limit Break % which is 155%. Also for Mii sizes, aren't there 3? The three I tested were small, medium, and large of every archetype which all had different results. I can test these on my 3DS with the same Miis I used on Wii U so that there's consistency. Don't think the results would change much anyway.
 
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Sonicninja115

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How do you test these numbers? I personally tested mine with the jump way. You keep on doing it until you can't jump away anymore, and that usually means you are very dead.

My numbers for Mario were 131-134, you did this on FD so I am wondering at the slight variation. Do we judge the Percents differently?
 

LRodC

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How do you test these numbers? I personally tested mine with the jump way. You keep on doing it until you can't jump away anymore, and that usually means you are very dead.

My numbers for Mario were 131-134, you did this on FD so I am wondering at the slight variation. Do we judge the Percents differently?
I set the CPU to Control to prevent any form of DI for the first value, and for the DI method I got a second controller and held the stick to the right or left the whole time for the CPU (same result). I also made sure Mewtwo was always in the center, but I'm not sure if that affects anything or not.
 
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LRodC

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That would be great and massively helpful if you could do that. I'll add your data to the OP if you do it and I'll credit you. Do you have the Wii U version? That's the one I'd rather have the values for first.
 

ShadowKing

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That would be great and massively helpful if you could do that. I'll add your data to the OP if you do it and I'll credit you. Do you have the Wii U version? That's the one I'd rather have the values for first.
Yes I do have the Wii U version and I should get some data later today
 

Masonomace

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For Rage testing, the handicap in VS Mode is fortunate, but it doesn't have 10% increments all the way from 0 - 150%. It goes 0 > 10 > 20 > 30 > 40 > 50 > 60 > 80 > 100 > 125 > 150%. I used Falco's Burst Blaster custom from a distance to deal 1.05% to me due to freshness & killed myself after each bullet on-hit, but whatever strategy you wanna use for semi-exact kill percentages is okay.
 

Browny

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If you want rage estimates, find the KO %'s at 50, 100 and 150% on jigglypuff, cloud and bowser. This will give you an accurate equation into how rage affects upthrow for every character weight.

Literally with those 9 values I could come up with the KO %'s at all levels of rage against the entire cast and I'd be confident it is accurate to within 1%.
 

Aninymouse

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Thanks a ton for doing this. I'll add this to the OP. Oddly enough, Lucina dies 1% earlier than Marth without DI, so I had to separate them. Also I know it's tough to test Shulk's Monado arts on 3DS, so I'll leave them blank for now aside from the ones you have. I got Cloud's Limit Break % which is 155%. Also for Mii sizes, aren't there 3? The three I tested were small, medium, and large of every archetype which all had different results. I can test these on my 3DS with the same Miis I used on Wii U so that there's consistency. Don't think the results would change much anyway.
I tested Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina individually. I only put them side-by-side because you did, and because their results were in fact the same.

If Lucina dies 1% earlier in the Wii U version, blame the larger blast zones of the 3DS version. Trust me, I know Lucina is a couple pixels shorter than Marth, so I killed both of them several times and kept trying to get them to die 1% earlier, but no dice.

On 3DS FD, Marth & Lucina die vertically at the same percent.
 

Aninymouse

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As for Mii sizes, there are two options: use a system Mii, or create a custom Mii in the Mii Maker app. When I list things like "shortest/fattest," that's a custom Mii that I made. "Default" was a generic, pre-installed guest Mii that comes in the perfect middle of height and weight.

I'll finish up the missing numbers as best I can. Not likely I'll have the patience to do the other Monado arts, since I'm at the mercy of the computer to cooperate
 
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Sonicninja115

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I set the CPU to Control to prevent any form of DI for the first value, and for the DI method I got a second controller and held the stick to the right or left the whole time for the CPU (same result). I also made sure Mewtwo was always in the center, but I'm not sure if that affects anything or not.
I did the exact same method... Meh, must just be our differences in recording kill percents. Nothing wrong with it, it is only a 1% difference.
 

ShadowKing

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here's the current data i have collected (let me know if you want to add DI)
(Mewtwos rage was at 150% and there's no DI)
:4bowser:130%
:4bowserjr:100%
:4falcon:110%
:4charizard:120%
:4cloud:100%
:4dedede:125%
:4darkpit:110%
:4diddy:105%
:4dk:145%
:4drmario:115%
:4jigglypuff:70%
:4mewtwo:100%
:4mario:110%
(Still working on getting the rest of the characters later today "my time"ill add a bit more
Edit:
:4pikachu:112%
:4villagerf:111%
:4lucas:118%
:4miibrawl:115%
:4miigun:115%
:4miisword:115%
(For mii fighters i used exact same mii and had no customs on)
:4megaman:118%
:4gaw:116%
:4link:120%
:4myfriends:127%
:4ganondorf:133%
:4feroy:125%
 
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Bigfoothunter

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Hopefully not a newb-ish question, but wouldn't the different ceiling height of (legal) stages have an effect on the kill%? Not quite sure how much exactly or if it is enough to take into account, but I've been thinking about that. For example, wondering how much the % would change if on say Town and City rather than FD?
 

ShadowKing

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Hopefully not a newb-ish question, but wouldn't the different ceiling height of (legal) stages have an effect on the kill%? Not quite sure how much exactly or if it is enough to take into account, but I've been thinking about that. For example, wondering how much the % would change if on say Town and City rather than FD?
Yes it would change the kill %
 

Aninymouse

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Oh, cool, you have everything but the different Monados filled in! Nice.

Looks like it's about a 9% - 10% difference between the two Final Destinations. I notice that some CPUs seem to be 9% - 10% higher than the DI numbers, so it's likely those character's AI always DIs away. Donkey Kong, Samus, Rosalina, Ganondorf, etc. I bet if I tested with another human, we'd find that to be the case...
 

ShadowKing

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Im sorry for not having any updates im busy with school plus in a few months im graduating
Edit:Updates on the rage kill % list
 
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Spikezillian

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Great work on the chart, thank you for this!

As a request, do you think you could do a back throw kill percent on the edge of the stage as well? I know it isnt as effective as up throw, but still, it would be nice to know to add to my notes and I unfortunately dont have time to lab it right now.
 
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godogod

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In a somewhat related note for Mewtwo,..

Nintendo Unity of youtube tested the most powerful smashes in knockback in relation to other characters(with mii fighter of 100 weight used as a dummy):

Mewtwo is
*Up smash: tied for 21-23 place
*Side Smash:46-48th place

Really surprised at side smash.. Can't wait for back throw and down down smash.
 
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Aninymouse

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Considering Mewtwo's Usmash is perhaps his strongest kill move, that is kinda surprising that it's only 21st most powerful.
 

godogod

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Surprised about that also. Was thinking it would be top 10. Wft beats out Lucas's btw.. At least Mewtwo's is in the top half.

Forward smash is pretty abysmal in comparison, which shocked me even more. I wonder how down smash compares. Perhaps we should all do some testing? I guess Mewtwo 's power is average after all when everything is taken into account, in terms of knockback. His notable Ko moves are shadowball, up smash, and up throw only.
 

420quickscoper

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Surprised about that also. Was thinking it would be top 10. Wft beats out Lucas's btw.. At least Mewtwo's is in the top half.

Forward smash is pretty abysmal in comparison, which shocked me even more. I wonder how down smash compares. Perhaps we should all do some testing? I guess Mewtwo 's power is average after all when everything is taken into account, in terms of knockback. His notable Ko moves are shadowball, up smash, and up throw only.
Eh, I would also consider forward air a notable kill move, especially offstage. It's one of his best kill moves due to the fact that it's safe on shield and can net KOs 90-100% offstage.
 

godogod

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I mean kill moves that stand out against most of the smash cast.
 
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Aninymouse

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Surprised about that also. Was thinking it would be top 10. Wft beats out Lucas's btw.. At least Mewtwo's is in the top half.

Forward smash is pretty abysmal in comparison, which shocked me even more. I wonder how down smash compares. Perhaps we should all do some testing? I guess Mewtwo 's power is average after all when everything is taken into account, in terms of knockback. His notable Ko moves are shadowball, up smash, and up throw only.
Even though side smash is weaker, it sends people at a low angle, so characters with bad or gimp-able recoveries die or get edge guarded.
 

Zarxrax

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I would love to see numbers for the different legal stages as well, both with and without platforms. Not every character, but maybe just the lightest and heaviest, to see the ranges on each stage.
 

Aninymouse

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I would love to see numbers for the different legal stages as well, both with and without platforms. Not every character, but maybe just the lightest and heaviest, to see the ranges on each stage.
Well, this sounds doable.

Basically, what you'll find is that, give or take 1%, you should be able to look up a character in the FD list... "Oh, so-and-so dies at 110% on FD." Then you just add, say, 10% for a bigger stage, subtract 10% for a tiny stage or platform, etc.

Since it will be simple addition, yes, getting numbers for all the possible scenarios won't take much extra work. We can just list them like, "for Battlefield, add 10% to the FD numbers," etc.
 

LRodC

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I updated the chart based on new 1.1.4 weight values, I included Corrin and Bayonetta, and I cleaned up the Mii section considerably. I also separated Dr. Mario and Dark Pit to make the chart more consistent. I'll be rechecking the chart later for reliability and validity, and I'll add in missing 3DS values as well when I get the time.

If someone can find an equation for rage, I can easily get those percentage values for the entire cast.

Other stages seem like a chore on paper, but I can do them if I can find out just one character's death percentage difference from FD. Once I do that, I can likely just subtract or add the same amount for every character.
 
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Ghidorah14

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That is such horsecrap that it kills later on 3ds.

F-ing inconsistent blastzones...
 

Aninymouse

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That is such horsecrap that it kills later on 3ds.

F-ing inconsistent blastzones...
Yeah, dunno why 3DS has bigger blast zones...

LRodC LRodC I'll screw around in training mode tonight and record a bunch of 3DS values. Battlefield and Dream Land seem like the two most important stages to test.
 

LRodC

Smashing With Mewtwo and Cloud
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LightningrodC
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Yeah, dunno why 3DS has bigger blast zones...

LRodC LRodC I'll screw around in training mode tonight and record a bunch of 3DS values. Battlefield and Dream Land seem like the two most important stages to test.
Okay, that sounds good. If the CPU DIs during the throw, try and pause repeatedly to see if that stops it. I might go back and fix some 3DS numbers where there were some offenders like Donkey Kong that always DIed the throw. Bayonetta does this also in the Wii U version, but you can just set her to Control there.
 
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Aninymouse

3DS Surfer
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Okay, that sounds good. If the CPU DIs during the throw, try and pause repeatedly to see if that stops it. I might go back and fix some 3DS numbers where there were some offenders like Donkey Kong that always DIed the throw. Bayonetta does this also in the Wii U version, but you can just set her to Control there.
Okay, yeah, I saw that pausing can stop the CPU from DIing a few weeks ago. Wish I had done that initially. Basically, amongst my original FD numbers, the ones that were not 9-10% higher than the Wii U numbers were due to DIing CPUs (I could tell by the angle they flew).

Also, I don't have Bayonetta.
 
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