Matchup Discussion: Rosalina + Luma

[CHOMPY]

Rosalina + Luma

Specifically, the following are suggested subtopics of conversation:

• Character strengths and weaknesses
• How to effectively approach/bait your opponent
• Off-stage game
• Positional play
• Punishes/punishing
• Specific moves/strings that are strong for both characters
• What moves to avoid
• Stage strengths and weaknesses
• Overall matchup ratio

 

[Makorel]

The best way to go about this match up I figure is to change this fight from vs. Rosalina & Luma to vs Just Rosalina. I have found two ways to go about this.

1. Pick Dark Pit. An aerial Electroshock will knock Luma nearly halfway across Final Destination but not quite off of it. If Rosalina isn't near the center or playing on a smaller stage this will usually do the trick. Definitely the easiest way to fight Rosalina as a Pit main.

2. Play with customs on. Bring Down B custom 2, Impact Orbitars. Impact Orbitars send Luma quite a ways, albeit not as much as Electroshock Arm does. You could try this near the edge and with the super armor you get on the ground you'll probably nail Luma and send him hurtling off the edge. You could also do an aerial Upperdash into Luma like if you were Dark Pit. This will "dislodge" Luma from its knockback resistance and launch it into the air and a little bit back and leave it helpless. Once in the air, you have until a little after Luma hits the ground to launch it with the Impact Orbitars which gives you plenty of time; enough to hit the floor and use the grounded super armor Impact Orbitars has for a little extra protection.

This combo, aerial side-B > jump > down-B will send Luma further than Electroshock Arm, tantalizingly close to the edge if Rosalina is at the center of FD. Another combo, aerial side-B > jump > aerial side-B> jump > down-B, will knock Luma off the stage if Rosalina is a little past the center of FD (somewhere between halfway and 3/4ths of the way across). The second jump may not be necessary depending on your position and Luma's position. These combos have only been tested in training and not during a real match. Odds are Rosalina will try and stop you from taking out Luma this way, but even so there are two potential benefits to this, the first being the extra distance you get out of this method compared to a straight Electroshock or Impact Orbitars, and the second being that you don't have to sacrifice your Upperdash Arm to kill Luma by going Dark Pit, leaving you with a potent vertical kill move with super armor against a light character that likes to defend herself by throwing out hurtboxes.

Edit: Changed "Interceptor Orbitars" to "Impact Orbitars". The name of Down B custom 2 is Impact Orbitars.

 

[Niner]

2. Play with customs on. Bring Down B custom 2, Interceptor Orbitars. Interceptor Orbitars send Luma quite a ways, albeit not as much as Electroshock Arm does.

You're forgetting that Rosa will then have customs, too, and most Rosa's will use Luma Warp, which practically negates the Orbitars use in this case.

While I haven't played against many Pits, I have recently picked him up on the side. Both have a great off-stage game, and similar recoveries. Luma will absorb arrows, and stop Upperdash Arm, giving Rosa a free punish.
On the other hand, some of Pit's aerials outrange and outprioritize Rosa's.
It's probably 50:50 imo.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't really know much about this match-up, but what I do know is that Luma Shot (and Power Luma Shot) can backfire on Rosalina, thanks to Pit's Guardian Orbitars. Likewise, Guardian Orbitars counters Floaty Star Bit and Shooting Star Bit, which can really mess up Rosalina's long range options against him.

To deal with Guardian Orbitars, Rosalina probably has to use Luma Warp and the standard Star Bits for getting at Pit's face, as those moves are unaffected by that attack.

 

[Yong Dekonk]

Rosalina is my favorite MU because of the potential to reflect a charged Luma. I have a replay saved in which the final KO is me reflecting a fully charged Luma... It was spectacular.

 

[Makorel]

@ Niner I'm not sure how you could think Luma Warp negates Impact Orbitars, except that maybe I wasn't as clear on what this custom does as I should have been.

To Clarify, Impact Orbitars are not a reflector. They are an attack. They no longer reflect projectiles or protect Pit from damage, but the area of the Orbitars now have hurtboxes around them that deal 5% damage and have good horizontal knockback/hitstun, they have super armor when on the ground so Pit can't be knocked back when using them, and, perhaps most importantly when regarding this match up, they are Pit's only aerial move that can dislodge Luma from the weird knockback armor it has when it's undamaged and send it towards the edge and not almost straight up. I would also argue they are one of Pit's better grounded moves for this purpose due to the super armor.

I don't think I've ever seen a Rosalina use Luma Shot at high level play, not even to reposition Luma. I think if Dabuz wants to do that he just keeps jabbing. Most Rosalinas I've played stop trying to use it as an attack after I fire an arrow at it and Luma is reset to its idle state and Rosalina is left charging an attack that won't happen.

Also I believe that taking Impact Orbitars over Guardian Orbitars or Amplifying Orbitars is more beneficial against Rosalina even when considering Shooting Star Bit. You don't have the threat of reflecting it, but now you have a more sure fire way to take out Luma, who Rosalina needs to use Shooting Star Bit in the first place.

 

[Niner]

To Clarify, Impact Orbitars are not a reflector. They are an attack. They no longer reflect projectiles or protect Pit from damage, but the area of the Orbitars now have hurtboxes around them that deal 5% damage and have good horizontal knockback/hitstun, they have super armor when on the ground so Pit can't be knocked back when using them, and, perhaps most importantly when regarding this match up, they are Pit's only aerial move that can dislodge Luma from the weird knockback armor it has when it's undamaged and send it towards the edge and not almost straight up. I would also argue they are one of Pit's better grounded moves for this purpose due to the super armor.

My bad. But a good Rosalina isn't going to just let you walk up and knock Luma away, regardless the attack. As you said, Luma Shot is never used to just throw Luma at the opponent. Any three of Pit's Orbitars can come in handy in this case.

 

[Charls]

Pit's greatest advantage in the Rosaluma matchup is one that the other swordsmen share - Rosalina's easy to exploit build. Rosalina is light, very light. That coupled with her tall frame gives us an extra edge when facing one of the strongest characters in the game [so far]. Because of our generous disjoints this game, Luma suddenly becomes less of a disjointed wall for us to slog through; openings to take advantage of start to appear.

This doesn't take that much away from Rosaluma however. Rosalina has disjointed neutrals of her own, and can space by her herself quite well - Luma only exarcerbates this problem. Our arrows require more precise aiming because of Luma and, unlike Dark Pit, our SideB does not take him/her away from the picture the moment it hits. Pit needs to properly place his pokes in this matchup more than usual lest we get smacked by galaxies. As was said Guardian Orbitars can be a powerful tool to reflect the repositioning of Luma through Luma Shot, but at competitive levels the Rosaluma player will seldom use said option. Power of Flight is a wonderful recovery, but is also easy to gimp once the trajectory is traced. This is problematic when we are facing a character like this that can either choose to precisely position hitboxes to deny us sweetspotting the ledge or to follow us off-stage with a good edge game and effective recovery.

On the other hand, Rosalina's recovery is somewhat predictable as well which gives us a good window to gimp her - with Guardian Orbitars given the chance. When delving into customs we can also find two additional tools for facing Rosaluma. The first, Piercing Arrows, gives us a projectile that won't care if Luma is in the way or not. Impact Orbitars is then a second option, and as @Makorei mentioned a good tool to get Luma away, albeit risky. Rosaluma's most notable upgrade from customs is Luma Warp

Overall the matchup feel even, 50:50, but given the relative safety of our attacks I could see this at 55:45 Pit's favor as the meta for these characters progresses. Rosa punishes hard, but I do not see her zoning us as roughly as she does so to other characters.