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Mashing out

Stevo

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
2,476
Location
150km north of nowhere, Canada
Hey

So, mashing out of grabs is especially important/useful with DK because he has the fastest grab escape animation in the game.

I'd like to try and take advantage of this, so I have 2 questions.

1. What method is good to use to mash out quickly? We want the grounded grab escape animation (so no jump button or up on the joystick) and we need to react quickly to when we escape.

2. What is the best way to punish getting out of a grab? Does anyone know the Frame data? is Down-Smash quick enough for example?

I'll probably try to look up this information later when I am not at work, but just wondering if anyone out there has really looked into this.
 

kyaputenfarukon07

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
267
From M2Ks Bible

http://clashtournaments.com/mew2kings-melee-information-and-discoveries/#22

Grab Escape Speed Formula (and the factors that affect it)
The formula for escaping a grab (NOT special grabs, like Bowser’s Koopa Klaw) is the following. The variables are, as you probably know, “t” = time(in frames) stuck in a grab, “b” = amount of times victim presses buttons to escape quicker, and “d” = damage of victim.

Most Grabs – Starting Time – 7 frames (0.11666 sec)

Most Grabs – Total Time – 30 frames (0.5 sec)

Most Dash Grabs – Starting Time – 11 frames (0.18333 sec)

Most Dash Grabs – Total Time – 40 frames (0.666 sec)

The formula is…

t = 1.6d + 76 – 6b

At 0%, without any usage of the analog stick or any buttons, it takes exactly 76 frames (1.26666…) to escape a grab. On average, every damage more an opponent receives, the time they’re stuck in a grab is increased by 1.6 frames. Since the game doesn’t have fractions of a frame, it goes like this for every 5% an opponent receieves(and then the process/pattern continues). +2 frames, +2 frames, +1 frame, + 2 frames, + 1 frame. That’s how it works. I also found that every flash when Mew2 grabs you occurs exactly 24 frames apart (and the 1st one starts on the 3rd frame of the grab), which is the exact same speed as Falco’s laser when it’s shot on the ground rapidly (except for the 1st shot, which starts on frame 23). Also, here is a general list of what affects escaping a grab by how much.

—–Press A, B, L, R, X, Y, or Z – 6 frames is reduced from the time you’d be held in a grab.

—–Press The Analog stick in 1 of the 4 cardinal directions(angles don’t count) – 6 frames is reduced from the time you’re held in a grab (24 frames is reduced after 1 complete rotation of the analog stick, so 2 and 1/2 rotations reduces the time by 1 second).

The characters that shock you when they’re holding you(except Ice Climbers with both of them) with they’re grab+A move, which include(in no specific order)…

1) Mewtwo

2) Pichu

3) Pikachu

4) Zelda

5) Ice Climbers(with both of them, by pressing A really really fast)

…stun a grabbed foe for for 5 frames, and every single other character in the game stuns a foe for only 3 frames. Yes, you can actually increase the time a character is held by pressing A to attack them in a grab. The total time for ever A attack (in a grab) is EXACTLY 26 frames, so that means that you’ll be able to shock a foe with Mew2, Pika/Pichu, Zelda and the 2 Ice Climbers about 1 more time in 12 or 13 times than you’d be able to do with another character, which gives those 5 characters an very very very slight advantage over other characters when you hold and attack them.

Here’s a little list on the amount of frames a character is held in a grab at each damage percentage(counting by 5′s)

—————0% – 76 (1.2666 sec)

5% – 84

10% – 92

15% – 100

20% – 108

25% – 116

30% – 124

35% – 132

40% – 140

45% – 148

—————50% – 156 (2.6 sec)

55% – 164

60% – 172

65% – 180

70% – 188

75% – 196

80% – 204

85% – 212

90% – 220

95% – 228

—————100% – 236 (3.9333 sec)

105% – 244

110% – 252

115% – 260

120% – 268

125% – 276

130% – 284

135% – 292

140% – 300

145% – 308

—————150% – 316 (5.2666 sec)

155% – 324

160% – 332

165% – 340

170% – 348

175% – 356

180% – 364

185% – 372

190% – 380

195% – 388

—————200% – 396 (6.6 sec)

205% – 404

210% – 412

215% – 420

220% – 428

225% – 436

230% – 444

235% – 452

240% – 460

245% – 468

—————250% – 476 (7.9333 sec)

255% – 484

260% – 492

265% – 500

270% – 508

275% – 516

280% – 524

285% – 532

290% – 540

295% – 548

—————300% – 556 (9.2666 sec)

305% – 564

310% – 572

315% – 580

320% – 588

325% – 596

330% – 604

335% – 612

340% – 620

345% – 628

—————350% – 636 (10.6 sec)

355% – 644

360% – 652

365% – 660

370% – 668

375% – 676

380% – 684

385% – 692

390% – 700

395% – 708

—————400% – 716 (11.9333 sec)

—————999% – 1674 (27.9 sec)

—adds 1 second every 37.5% (without trying to escape it)

—doubles original time stuck in move (76 frames) at 47.5% (without trying to escape it)

—from 0% to 999%, there’s approximately a 22.026316 times increase in the amount of times longer Disable lasts (without trying to escape it)
 

kyaputenfarukon07

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
267
Additional Info from Magus420

http://smashboards.com/threads/breaking-out-of-grabs.263017/#post-9410671

TLDR

-C-stick doesn't do anything
-You can only get 1 stick input and 1 button input per frame. Pressing more than one button simultaneously only counts as a single input, so when using multiple buttons try to press them in sequence and not together.
-You only need to press the analog part for an L/R input and don't need to click it down all the way. If using both L and R you need to completely release the one before trying to input the other.

I just rotate the stick while sliding the side of my thumb back and forth across the B/A/Y/X buttons (keeping my hand/thumb/wrist locked and moving my arm), which works really well. If you know/predict you're about to get grabbed you can get out really fast since you can be already mashing away right as you get caught.

If you want to DI a throw a certain way and it's slow enough to react to like Sheik's d-throw you should still always use both the control stick and buttons then DI properly when you see the throw start. Even if it's a bit fast like Peach's f-throw and you want to DI it properly you should still be mashing buttons while preemptively DIing, and doing a quick rotation or two during the grab hits. I often hear/see people neglecting to press buttons when making sure they DI a throw a certain way, and if I don't hear them mashing I just keep hitting them a couple extra times.
 
Last edited:

krazyzyko

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Messages
2,126
Location
El Carajo, Puerto Rico
Hey

So, mashing out of grabs is especially important/useful with DK because he has the fastest grab escape animation in the game.

I'd like to try and take advantage of this, so I have 2 questions.

1. What method is good to use to mash out quickly? We want the grounded grab escape animation (so no jump button or up on the joystick) and we need to react quickly to when we escape.

2. What is the best way to punish getting out of a grab? Does anyone know the Frame data? is Down-Smash quick enough for example?

I'll probably try to look up this information later when I am not at work, but just wondering if anyone out there has really looked into this.
1. Tap the stick sideway like a dash dance while mashing A+B with your thumb over both buttons.

2. Down tilt is the fastest punish. ldk about frame data.
 
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