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Mashing Mechanics

cFive

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
140
We researched grabs and mashing, here is the result!

Grabs without mashing:
  • Grab length at 0%: 1.5 seconds
  • Grab length growth: 1 second per 35% damage
Reduction by mashing:
  • Button inputs: ~0.25 seconds
  • Directional inputs (control stick): ~0.14 seconds (about 1 second for every 1 1/2 rotations)
  • C-stick inputs: ~0.14 seconds (rotating doesn't work)
Additional mechanics:
  • The game only counts one input at a time (in every frame?!). Pressing many inputs at the same time results in only one counted input!
  • If one input is held down and another button with the same input gets pressed, it does not count! (e.g. if you press "jump" on Y while holding "jump" on X, the Y inputs don't count)
  • One rotation of the control stick results in 4 directional inputs (down, left, up, right). Diagonals don't count extra!
  • Pummeling has no effect on the grab length!
Best mashing techniques (see video below):
  • Swiping
  • Wobbling 1
  • Wobbling 2
  • Circling control stick


Research on shieldbreak-mashing done by jmjb:

Shield Break Mashing:
  • 120 frames of launch freefall after shield break. (unaffected by %)
  • 60 frames of wake up animation. (unaffected by %)
  • Mashing doesn't apply before standing up after launch freefall.
  • Each input removes 0.85 frames of stun.
  • 51 stun frames can be removed every 60 mash frames.
  • 1 rotation of the control stick is 16 inputs.
Application at 0%:
  • 160 inputs remove 136 stun frames.
  • 200 inputs remove 170 stun frames.
  • 219 inputs remove 186 stun frames.
  • 320 inputs remove 186 stun frames.
  • 400 inputs remove 186 stun frames.
Math:
585 total stun frames at 0%
(((585-180)/111)+3) = 6.65
6.65 seconds max mash speed

// ((((total stun frames-180)/111)+3)*60)


Scale:
  • 585 total stun frames at 100%
  • 402 total stun frames at 200%
  • 278 total stun frames at 300%
  • 181 total stun frames at 999%
Code:
Code:
val frame = 1
val fps = 60
val inputMultiplier = 0.85
val unactionableFrames = 180
val maxFramesRemovablePerSecond = 111
fun Int.framesToSecond(): Int = this/fps
fun Int.seconsdToFrame(): Int = this*fps
fun Int.minTimeToUnstun(): Float {
   return (this.toFloat() - unactionableFrames) / maxFramesRemovablePerSecond + unactionableFrames.framesToSecond()
}
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
Is the C-stick useless because of it being set to smash? I only noticed you guys having the c-stick set to smash. What if it were set to attack? Would you still get a single input and have to wait for it to return to neutral?
 

cFive

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
140
Any research on the exact influence on Hoops and whatever other non-grab moves are influenced?
what are hoops?^^
we didn't research too much into commandgrabs, if thats what you mean... my first guess would be that the mashing influence is the same (buttons -0.25s, stick -0.14s) BUT the base grab length for all of them differs... it's only a guess though..

Is the C-stick useless because of it being set to smash? I only noticed you guys having the c-stick set to smash. What if it were set to attack? Would you still get a single input and have to wait for it to return to neutral?
yes, we tried not only attack, but everything else too (special, shield, etc).. nothing works!
 
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Roystonea

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
36
Great vid! One question tho, have you guys tried circling the control stick and spamming only one button (like attack)? Thought that might have been fastest
 

Raijinken

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
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Location
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what are hoops?^^
we didn't research too much into commandgrabs, if thats what you mean... my first guess would be that the mashing influence is the same (buttons -0.25s, stick -0.14s) BUT the base grab length for all of them differs... it's only a guess though..


yes, we tried not only attack, but everything else too (special, shield, etc).. nothing works!
I meant Wii Fit Trainer's Up-B, which (to all appearances) seems to benefit from mashing. I've also heard similar claims involving Whirling Fortress (Bowser's), but cannot say from personal experience that I agree on that one.
 

Xygonn

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 12, 2014
Messages
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xygonn
Hmmm. Two questions.

Did you actually try using the analog stick on wii controllers? I know they aren't popular but I suspect the GCC is particularly good because of the way the adapter polls the GCC for inputs. I have tried swirling on the CC pro but it doesn't seem to be very effective compared to other button mashing.

I find the d-pad + swiping works really well for me. Did you guys try out the dpad? Am I just crazy?
 

Xermo

Smash Champion
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afk
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I've also heard similar claims involving Whirling Fortress (Bowser's), but cannot say from personal experience that I agree on that one.
Whirling Fortress definitely loses height from mashing. To ensure maximum height, you press B during the apex of the move.
Don't see how people still think it's a mashing recovery.
 

Raijinken

Smash Master
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Whirling Fortress definitely loses height from mashing. To ensure maximum height, you press B during the apex of the move.
Don't see how people still think it's a mashing recovery.
By not playing Bowser. And doesn't it stop being the apex if you go higher afterwards? Anyways, thanks for the info.
 

Masonomace

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
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I find the d-pad + swiping works really well for me. Did you guys try out the dpad? Am I just crazy?
See this is what I've been doing since Brawl to mash out of grabs. It seemed really good to me for the most part. For this game I did that for a while, but lately I've tapped the control stick rapidly :GCL: to :GCR: to :GCL: to :GCR:. Rolling the joystick though sounds great so I'll have to give that a whirl with swiping the buttons or d-pad.
 

Teshie U

Smash Lord
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Jan 13, 2013
Messages
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As dumb as it sounds, did you check shake smash on the wiimote/nunchuk?
 

mario123007

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What about 3DS? Using circle pad to mash might damage it. Mashing buttons on the 3DS can also be a bit hard.
 

cFive

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
140
honestly, we didn't test out other controllers, but i still think alot of the button mechanics, etc work everywhere the same...
we also didn't check shake smash :D cool idea xD
 

cFive

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Oct 14, 2011
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UPDATES:
  • One rotation of the control stick results in 4 directional inputs (down, left, up, right). Diagonals don't count extra!
  • Pummeling has no effect on the grab length!
 

mario123007

HELLO, YOU HAVE ENTERED THE DUNK ZONE
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honestly, we didn't test out other controllers, but i still think alot of the button mechanics, etc work everywhere the same...
we also didn't check shake smash :D cool idea xD
Bah! Don't remind me of Wii remote's shake Smash. It was awful imo.
I never dare to mash when I play the 3DS version, mash really gonna damage circle pad, and even buttons. So that's why I would rather play Wii U version and use the GC controller.
 

jmjb

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Nov 15, 2014
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anhJer
how does the 4 way dpad work? not the dstick. they are all diff taunts so, would that be faster?
 

cFive

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
140
how does the 4 way dpad work? not the dstick. they are all diff taunts so, would that be faster?
taunts dont count as inputs :(
but you could assign other inputs to them and mash it i guess.. but i doubt that it would be faster than the normal way^^
 

Lakuto

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How about the bury duration? Is it the same as the grab?
 
Last edited:

Xygonn

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xygonn
how does the 4 way dpad work? not the dstick. they are all diff taunts so, would that be faster?
I put other inputs on dpad like suggested. I use shield, attack, special, and jump assigned to the different directions.
 

jmjb

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
Messages
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NNID
anhJer
k let me expand on your beefy research.
Shield Break Mashing:
  • 120 frames of launch freefall after shield break. (unaffected by %)
  • 60 frames of wake up animation. (unaffected by %)
  • Mashing doesn't apply before standing up after launch freefall.
  • Each input removes 0.85 frames of stun.
  • 51 stun frames can be removed every 60 mash frames.
  • 1 rotation of the control stick is 16 inputs.
Application at 0%:
  • 160 inputs remove 136 stun frames.
  • 200 inputs remove 170 stun frames.
  • 219 inputs remove 186 stun frames.
  • 320 inputs remove 186 stun frames.
  • 400 inputs remove 186 stun frames.
Math:
585 total stun frames at 0%
(((585-180)/111)+3) = 6.65
6.65 seconds max mash speed

// ((((total stun frames-180)/111)+3)*60)


Scale:
  • 585 total stun frames at 100%
  • 402 total stun frames at 200%
  • 278 total stun frames at 300%
  • 181 total stun frames at 999%
Code:
Code:
val frame = 1
val fps = 60
val inputMultiplier = 0.85
val unactionableFrames = 180
val maxFramesRemovablePerSecond = 111
fun Int.framesToSecond(): Int = this/fps
fun Int.seconsdToFrame(): Int = this*fps
fun Int.minTimeToUnstun(): Float {
   return (this.toFloat() - unactionableFrames) / maxFramesRemovablePerSecond + unactionableFrames.framesToSecond()
}
 
Last edited:

cFive

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
140
ay thats some nice research!
I'll add it to the startpost
 

Masonomace

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
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This feels weird asking, but was Shulk's Monado Shield art ever a suggestion to test for mashing? Because Monado Shield's knockback resistance nature applies to escaping from effects quicker, such as:
  • Bury
  • Flower
  • Frozen
  • Paralyze
  • Sleep
  • Stun
  • Wind
I'm not around to test this right now, but going off numbers / frames, just how much faster would Shield Shulk be escaping from grabs or under an effect?
 
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