Marth's Ken Combo - I did it...I think O.o

[Darklink401]

So a week or so ago, on the 3ds, I pulled off something I thought was amazing, and I couldn't believe my eyes.
I was randomly practicing against a CPU, and I did the following

DThrow -> Jump -> Bair -> Fair -> Jump -> Dair

And it KOd the CPU. (via Meteor Smash)

I haven't been able to recreate it, but my closest has come with the opponent's damage being relatively low.

So now I ask this of you, Marth mains that actually know Marth more than I...

Is this actually possible? Or did I just majorly luck out?

 

[EternalFlame]

So a week or so ago, on the 3ds, I pulled off something I thought was amazing, and I couldn't believe my eyes.
I was randomly practicing against a CPU, and I did the following

DThrow -> Jump -> Bair -> Fair -> Jump -> Dair

And it KOd the CPU. (via Meteor Smash)

I haven't been able to recreate it, but my closest has come with the opponent's damage being relatively low.

So now I ask this of you, Marth mains that actually know Marth more than I...

Is this actually possible? Or did I just majorly luck out?

That FAir > DAir is a setup for sure, but no guarantee ken combo unfortunately xD This was discussed before and it can be beaten out via counter/frame 1 attack/air dodge. Its still good to know in case you catch your opponent on hesitation however. Your goal is to hit them slightly above and infront of you with the sour spot of your FAir I believe then go into the DAir. Its been done a few times by a number of Marth players though, and if you can learn to use it well, then you're solid xD

 

[Darklink401]

Oh okay. Sad to know it's not a true combo...XP but oh well, at least it exists.

Too bad I couldn't ever do it again XD

 

[EternalFlame]

Oh okay. Sad to know it's not a true combo...XP but oh well, at least it exists.

Too bad I couldn't ever do it again XD

I wouldn't put it past ya to learn it though xD You might still be able to make it work with enough pressure I'd say.

 

[Darklink401]

I'm moreso hype for trying to learn dthrow to bair, then fair.

 

[LoreLes]

Anything that isn't Uair>Ftilt/Smash/Utilt etc, DB, Dthrow>Uair/Bair, Fthrow>Fair low percents is most likely not a true combo for Marth.

 

[Darklink401]

Anything that isn't Uair>Ftilt/Smash/Utilt etc, DB, Dthrow>Uair/Bair, Fthrow>Fair low percents is most likely not a true combo for Marth.

So basically, Dthrow to Bair, then Fair is a combo, but the Dair afterwards isnt?

How sad XP Oh well, at least I can try to read an airdodge to get it~ haha

 

[LoreLes]

Dair in general never gets any good set ups from the throws or other aerials mainly because it's start up is slower than the rest of Marth's moves. It's either they are too far away after a Fair/Bair or the positioning after being hit by said moves is just too far for Dair to connect. Even if you were in a favorable position the game still doesn't count it as a true combo.

 

[EternalFlame]

Anything that isn't Uair>Ftilt/Smash/Utilt etc, DB, Dthrow>Uair/Bair, Fthrow>Fair low percents is most likely not a true combo for Marth.

Don't forget that DB1 > UAir is a true combo at 130% up xD

 

[Tantei]

As I read this I got a bit confused. What is a "true" combo? Also, have you guys seen Ken's twitch videos on his ken combos? Would those be classified as true ken combos?

 

[EternalFlame]

As I read this I got a bit confused. What is a "true" combo? Also, have you guys seen Ken's twitch videos on his ken combos? Would those be classified as true ken combos?

A true combo, by this game's definition, is two or more hits while the opponent is still in what is termed hitstun (or just inability to do anything other than Directional Influence or DI for short). Because they are in hitstun, they are unable to act well enough out that the second move will 100% connect as long as it's done in the right way.

Say for example Marth's Dancing Blades (Side B), that when timed correctly, each move will connect to the next with no chance of your opponent escaping it. Say you slowed down between the swings, and they could potentially still connect, but your opponent has a chance to get out via jumping/attacking/dodging/etc. True combos are inescapable if done correctly.

The famous Ken combo however are escapable due to the double DI, however, Melee has a series of true combos as well. It is only in this game, however, that tracks if a combo is true or not by watching the target being in hitstun or not.

Hopefully that clarifies it for ya xD

 

[Darklink401]

As I read this I got a bit confused. What is a "true" combo? Also, have you guys seen Ken's twitch videos on his ken combos? Would those be classified as true ken combos?

true combos are when the opponent is still in hitstun and can't airdodge.

EDIT

@ EternalFlame Gosh, tryin to show me up with your 'knowledge' and 'fancy speak'

gosh.


XDD

 

[Tantei]

A true combo, by this game's definition, is two or more hits while the opponent is still in what is termed hitstun (or just inability to do anything other than Directional Influence or DI for short). Because they are in hitstun, they are unable to act well enough out that the second move will 100% connect as long as it's done in the right way.

Say for example Marth's Dancing Blades (Side B), that when timed correctly, each move will connect to the next with no chance of your opponent escaping it. Say you slowed down between the swings, and they could potentially still connect, but your opponent has a chance to get out via jumping/attacking/dodging/etc. True combos are inescapable if done correctly.

The famous Ken combo however are escapable due to the double DI, however, Melee has a series of true combos as well. It is only in this game, however, that tracks if a combo is true or not by watching the target being in hitstun or not.

Hopefully that clarifies it for ya xD

I understand now. Thank you haha. I remember the one video I watched about true combos from Battlefield's platforms. So the ken combo isn't really a "combo" because it is escapeable. However, the ken combo can "technically" be done, correct?

 

[EternalFlame]

I understand now. Thank you haha. I remember the one video I watched about true combos from Battlefield's platforms. So the ken combo isn't really a "combo" because it is escapeable. However, the ken combo can "technically" be done, correct?

That's correct xD It can be done, which is why it's usually termed an attack string; a series of hits that flow well together, but are not truly inescapable. A lot of what people deem as a combo is typically just an attack string. True combos are a bit harder to come by, especially for Marth/Lucina in this game.

Strings are done a lot in tournaments since not everyone knows how to get out of each part of the string correctly or fast enough. The Ken Combo is famous for a while since people first didn't know how to DI, then even with knowing it, they needed to figure out the double stick DI trick for escaping that "combo" specifically. Marth as well was rather fast (and quite frankly, rediculous xD) back in Melee for a combination of things, so knowing what to do and being able to react fast enough to escape is always the trick.

Yeah, I know the video you're talking about, and those are exactly the kind of true combos the game tracks. Not sure if the very last bit where they are forced to stand up counts as a true combo via game standards, but it is 100% inescapable, so for a player context, it's inescapable (but I could be wrong as well, since I haven't done those myself xD)

If there are any other questions, please direct them to the Marth Q & A at the top of the board ^^ the community will be more than happy to explain anything else for ya.
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-marth-q-a-thread.383383/

EDIT: dun goofed at the top, but I meant to say inescapable xD

 

[Tantei]

That's correct xD It can be done, which is why it's usually termed an attack string; a series of hits that flow well together, but are not truly escapable. A lot of what people deem as a combo is typically just an attack string. True combos are a bit harder to come by, especially for Marth/Lucina in this game.

Strings are done a lot in tournaments since not everyone knows how to get out of each part of the string correctly or fast enough. The Ken Combo is famous for a while since people first didn't know how to DI, then even with knowing it, they needed to figure out the double stick DI trick for escaping that "combo" specifically. Marth as well was rather fast (and quite frankly, rediculous xD) back in Melee for a combination of things, so knowing what to do and being able to react fast enough to escape is always the trick.

Yeah, I know the video you're talking about, and those are exactly the kind of true combos the game tracks. Not sure if the very last bit where they are forced to stand up counts as a true combo via game standards, but it is 100% inescapable, so for a player context, it's inescapable (but I could be wrong as well, since I haven't done those myself xD)

If there are any other questions, please direct them to the Marth Q & A at the top of the board ^^ the community will be more than happy to explain anything else for ya.
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-marth-q-a-thread.383383/

Okay, thank you for clarifying things! You've been a huge help.