• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Marth vs. Puff Discussion

Janky_CNF

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 9, 2015
Messages
20
Location
Tennessee
Marth has to abuse a lot of Puff's flaws in order to win this matchup consistantly. I've gathered this data mainly while playing against my training-partner Earth, a resident Fox-Puff player, and through my own personal tinkering.

Puff's weight makes it hard on Marth to combo her reliably, so you usually have to win exchanges rather than making crazy zero-to-deaths. One thing that plays in Marth's favor is his sword's range and property of being a disjointed hitbox. What a disjointed hitbox means ,for those who are new to technical terms, is an attack's property of not containing a hurtbox, an area where a character will take damage. This makes them beat out moves that aren't disjointed hitboxes (Ex. Falcon dair). You can potentially wall out impatient approaches by Puff with moves such as your tilts, forward smash, jab, etc. It's easy to intercept Puff's approaches, her low air speed makes her an easy target for these moves.

Something to keep in mind is that in neutral, Marth primarily wants to stay grounded or keep an advantageous position over Puff where his hitboxes beat out hers. Grabs are very risky in this matchup due to Marth's height since Puff can simply duck under them and punish with a Rest. So, keeping a level head and steady hand is the way to go. Dashdance ftilt is better than dashdance grab a majority of the time as you aren't really risking anything by simply swiping at Puff from a distance, and you aren't playing the most aggressive. Pick your spots to go aerial as well, rising fair is AMAZING for stuffing Puff's aerials. If Puff is above you and you don't feel like using fair for some reason, jump up immediate nair is good too, but only on occasion. If you DO get a grab, you're mainly going to be playing by Puff's rules and reacting. (There is a dedicated paragraph to this topic down below.)

Once Puff gets to the "Marth Percent", the infamous event where Marth's moves slowly lose their combo potential as the opponent's percentage (and thus knockback) grows, it becomes a much more risk-and-reward type of game. You can either risk everything and throw out fsmash, or play it safe but potentially not kill with ftilt. One thing to remember is that you can dashdance faint into side-b uptilt and almost guarantee yourself a kill past 80%-ish. Pivot fsmash is also godlike in this matchup as it is a rather daunting threat on the Puff, since it can literally come out of nowhere and bop a non-suspecting Puff at 70% and kill them.​

You aren't going to get much from attempting to go for low percent kills, the best you can get is either tipper pivot fsmash, grab to pivot fsmash (more on that later), or premptive upair near the top of the stage. Depending on your positioning on the stage, you CAN theoretically forward throw to dair off the stage if the Puff doesn't know it's coming and doesn't immediatly jump out, but that's all player-dependant metagame stuff. Same goes for down throw dair, "Mufasa Combo".

If you DO get a grab as Marth on Puff, you will be reacting a majority of the time. Get good at reacting to throw DI against floaties and pivot fsmash. At mid to high percent, Marth can fthrow or dthrow into pivot fsmash and kill, but this is all only if the opponent either DI's in or no DI. If they DI away, best you can go for is either the safer option (fair) or the more hard-hitting option (neutral b).​

Marth can potentially have either the most glorious rest punishes or the most pathetic hits one could ever see. The most optimal two options are : 1.) Charge neutral b 2.) Tipper charged fsmash. You could also throw the opponent off by downsmash, it's especially good if the Puff isn't knowledgable on all of Marth's moves and you can catch them DI'ing up or something.​

One more thing to account for is platform techchasing and just general positioning as you can't really edgeguard Puff, no character can in a sense. So long as Puff is above Marth or Marth is strategically (choosing to be there and capitalizing on it) above Puff, Puff can't do much. Keep that in mind if you are edgeguarding her, you can simply grab ledge, ledge jump, dair, and make your momentum bring you onto the stage. Simple stuff really. As for platform techchasing, you can do a neat setup at about 60%-onwards with tipper dair to tipper/almost-tipper upair, and it works wonders on stages with low ceilings. A final note is that you can be really jank and simply upsmash the above Puff, but please do this sparingly or not at all.​

Stage picks are pretty-much straight forward. Avoid stages with high-ceilings, such as Dreamland, or stages that really don't let Marth capitalize on using his range to the fullest extent, such as FD. The best-to-worst stages to go to are : Yoshi's Island, Pokemon Stadium, Battlefield, Fountain of Dreams, FD, and Dreamland.​
 

Espurr's Eyes

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
41
Location
Logan, Utah
It's also very worth noting that Marth can up the grab game if he doesn't jump cancel his grabs. A regular dash grab will grab a crouching puff, whereas a standing grab or jump cancelled grab will not.
 

Hunybear

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Messages
405
Location
Nashville Tennessee
Good tips.
Also puff has 6 jumps. 1 off ground and 5 in air.
Every jump you force puff to make, pressures them to act. Counting them is highly beneficial.
I should make mention of the floaty killer. First hit of side-B to U-tilt
 
Last edited:

Pent

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
13
I have to disagree with a lot. It's not hard to combo puff as Marth. It's just different. You can get multiple fairs, nairs, end with an uair. Practically instantly get 50% off fairing their aerial approach. This was shown a lot in PPU vs Hbox.

Ftilt is not your only kill move and I don't even support the "Marth %" myth. First hit of DB is frame 6 and is a true combo into utilt at some percents which does kill. If not you can chase and tipper fair/uair which may also kill. Then there's just throwing offstage and backair walling, puff has no way to get past bair. Which brings me to my next point of you're underestimating Marth's edgeguarding against jigglypuff. If you threaten her with backair or even potential dair, she wastes jumps being forced to avoid it or die early to tipper backair on occasion. What's Jigglypuff going to do? Nothing. She has no options. You can react fade forward//away bair to everything. She's helpless offstage and has to be extremely careful if you space right. It's like Peach or Pikachu where some Marth's will let them come back for absolutely no reason. Just go hit them, they can't stop you.

People really should pick up pivot fsmash's though. They're not as hard as they seem and they open a lot of combo potentials for Marth. Such as several uthrow/uair ->fsmash on Fox, and throws leading into fsmashes on Peach, Sheik, and Pikachu.
 

Scrubloard69

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
12
Location
Arlington Va
Over the summer a sheik main and I kept losing to a puff in our region thus we started to work on our puff match up and one thing that we found is that if the puff di to try to avoid the pivot forward smashes. You can just chain forward throws together. This works around 0-34%. While this isn't guaranteed its actually a great mix up because after the Pewpewu vs. Hbox set every puff knows that Marth wants to pivot smash you. After this go for a pivot f-smash (since there already confused on where to di) or my favorite if your near the ledge forward throw then down air the puff. This works sometimes (i'm not really sure what di or if it just works) as seen in the smash the record set hbox puff vs. M2k Marth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80QHoWe2xQY minute 12:35. This is great cause you can actually 0 to death puff (as I did to him bracket). Also watch this set and look at what m2k does wrong and how he gets punished. This helped me a lot cause I realized that I was doing a lot of things M2K was doing wrong.

Other tips: forward tilt, forward air, be patient (don't run at them but also figure out when to run at them), dair oos is also good.
Hopefully this helps as I think that Marth vs. Puff is in puff's favor but since many puff's dont study the marth matchup it's doable.

Good Marth Vs. Puff sets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJitAooJr-c (SmashG0D vs Hbox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDxvY_MVctI&index=3&list=PL3Z01NXawoQetG9rqYbIkXjBWd8p1sIYa (Pewpewu vs hbox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg0v2eyacoo&index=2&list=PL3Z01NXawoQetG9rqYbIkXjBWd8p1sIYa (PPMD vs soft)
 
Top Bottom