Marth Movement

[Sur Fartsalot]

How do you guys apply dashdance and wavedashing to your game? I tend to play a more aggressive marth, but I'm not the kind of person that waits for an opportunity and strikes. When I watch ken or M2K play, I see that they always bait attacks then dash or wavedash backwards and punish their opponent. This is something I'm a bit weak on, and would like to learn how to do it better. Is there any advice you guys can offer me on how to integrate better spacing through dashdancing and wavedashing?

 

[Duplighost]

I hope this video can help you out:
Wavedash - Super Smash Academy - YouTube
I'm not much of a Melee player, so I don't know too much on the topic.

 

[MH | Joeschmo]

Read/Watch every Marth guide on AirFair's compiled list of guides.

 

[AirFair]

Did someone call me?

Well, My page is actually a good place to start.

Something I can tell you here is that movement by itself is pretty useless tbh

In order to really understand the purpose of movement, you need to know what you can do out of it (dtilt, rising fair, grabs, etc.)
PP has said on numerous occasions that he learned marth movement by knowing the threat it carries

You have to space yourself in relation to your opponent's threat zones, like a fox's shffl nair, or a sheik's dash attack.

Once you learn to watch where your opponents are the most threatening, you use your dashdancing to both bait and approach, and the wavedashing makes positioning a lot easier. I can understand if it's a difficult concept, because I'm not even perfect with this. Once you play people, you will see where each character is the most dangerous, which is when you learn to move around that.

Good luck.

 

[Blackavar]

Did someone call me?

Well, My page is actually a good place to start.

Something I can tell you here is that movement by itself is pretty useless tbh

In order to really understand the purpose of movement, you need to know what you can do out of it (dtilt, rising fair, grabs, etc.)
PP has said on numerous occasions that he learned marth movement by knowing the threat it carries

You have to space yourself in relation to your opponent's threat zones, like a fox's shffl nair, or a sheik's dash attack.

Once you learn to watch where your opponents are the most threatening, you use your dashdancing to both bait and approach, and the wavedashing makes positioning a lot easier. I can understand if it's a difficult concept, because I'm not even perfect with this. Once you play people, you will see where each character is the most dangerous, which is when you learn to move around that.

Good luck.

Hey could you maybe stop giving advice on every topic in every thread until you are actually good? Or even decent? Your advice is often ridiculously simple and not really useful.

 

[AirFair]

I'm sorry but did I offend you? was that necessary?

 

[-=Untamed-Beast=-]

LOL AirFair's post was actually solid. And he referred to his thread where bunch of top players' advice is actually contained.

c----- poverty lasers --- everybody duck down ---

 

[Blackavar]

It was okay but nobody needs guides or advice written by scrubs.

 

[-=Untamed-Beast=-]

But the advice wasn't scrubby. You can know and understand a lot about the game without or before actually excelling at it. Plus, people seeking advice could easily consult the known pros if they wanted to + easily use their guides, posts, videos, etc. But this thread's for discussion with all Marth mains.

 

[AirFair]

I know alot but I'm not perfect yet lol. Thanks Beast.

if what you are saying is true, then the only people who should be allowed to post are the top 5, which makes this whole site obsolete. I'm sorry if you feel like I'm not up to par with your standards.

 

[DerpyDayha]

It was okay but nobody needs guides or advice written by scrubs.

Can I just say that I've gotten a crapload of advice directly from AirFair, and I have put almost all of it into action. I don't remember a single piece of advice he gave that didn't end up helping me. Like thanks to him, my tech is fairly on point (you like my fair pun there? No? ok nvm) and I have an understanding of the game that I never would have thought I'd ever have. To tell the truth I could probably teach some newer players a few things and I suck in execution. Remember the difference between book smarts and street smarts.

Also, AirFair ur my favourite person on this site. Thanks for contributing so much and I think everyone else appreciates u as much as I do.

 

[AirFair]

Thank you so much. It means a lot to me, and I hope that the things I say will help people in the future. I myself am still learning so much.

To just shorten what I said is this TLDR

- Dashdance with a purpose (bait/approach)

- best 4 options: dtilt, shield stop aerial, rising fair, and grab

- combine wavedashes/dd for maximum kreygasm (cactuar dash looks hella clean)

- Don't stay in shield too long.

 

[Blackavar]

I know alot but I'm not perfect yet lol. Thanks Beast.

if what you are saying is true, then the only people who should be allowed to post are the top 5, which makes this whole site obsolete. I'm sorry if you feel like I'm not up to par with your standards.

No I'm not saying that only top five are qualified to give advice. I'm saying that YOU are not qualified to give advice.

 

[BTmoney]

No I'm not saying that only top five are qualified to give advice. I'm saying that YOU are not qualified to give advice.

Lmao so if I tell you 2+2=4 and someone else tells you 2+2=4 who's right?

That's a degenerative mentality that is going to slow your progress, you should filter the advice you take yes but you also should consider conceding on topics you are not versed in. AirFair was 100% right. Think about what is being said not who is saying it.

By your own logic you may not be qualified to refute anyone's advice.

A lot of what people will tell you is often a second hand version of what some top player said or general knowledge. If you think they're wrong, which is okay, you should ask them why or to explain further. So you don't cut yourself off to information that will make you better.

What part about learning the threatening ranges you have while in X state (stand, air, dash, run etc.) & the threats your opponent presents in their state seems wrong and bad to you?

That's basically how you play melee (once you grasp that approaching is typically bad, that's step 1).

You start getting better once you reverse construct your game and gain ituition and experience as you try to play without being aggressive or easing up. Try running away from your opponent flat out or just avoiding them and see how the game "feels" and think about what you could do to them. Baby steps. Then try to build an offense around that. That is simply put but it'll make a lot of ideas fall into place and basically AirFair said the same thing with different words and ideas but it's all the same.

Don't be afraid of knowledge or using critical thinking, melee is simple in concept but hard to play.

 

[Blackavar]

I'm certainly not qualified to GIVE advice on how to play melee, neither is anyone else who is bad. The game is a little more complicated than 2+2 makes four, but to continue the analogy, yes, I don't think you should be giving any advice on calculus if you can't solve simple algebra.

Airfair, post a game of yours that you've played so I can see exactly how qualified you are to give out mountains of advice in every thread.

 

[-=Untamed-Beast=-]

Plot twist: All the advice he's ever given has come form discussions with PPMD in a twitcht in between all the PPMD Kreygasms. Now his advice is legit!

btw, we're all human. We can know and explain tons of very good things and still be mediocre players, because playing this game is much harder than talking about it. Bottom line is, he's still helping people so I don't see why he shouldn't continue to help people out. It might not get them to top 50, but it sure it is moving them closer to it.

 

[BTmoney]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

why are you even telling people who should be doing what lol?

 

[Blackavar]

I have no idea what you're trying to say...

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I have no idea what you're trying to say...

He is saying you are an idiot for telling AirFair he isn't allowed to give advice.

I think.

 

[Blackavar]

And the link to the Wikipedia for confirmation bias is supposed to indicate what, exactly?

 

[DerpyDayha]

Blackavar, I have one thing to say. You're 23 years old and acting like your average online teenager. You're being a jerk and u know it and u think its all fun.

Now that's fine if you're a teenager because no one expects anything more of you, but you are 23. We've all figured out by now that you are the person who is wrong, I'm quite sure there's a majority against you but yet you keep blabbing on.

Youare acting completely immature and what scares me about that is that im 9 years younger than you and acting more like an adult right now than you.

So I recommend you leave this conversation and stop hating on people asap. It's not helping you. You're just a waste of time and the scum of the smash community.

 

[Blackavar]

Mhm, I'm not trying to be personally insulting or anything like that, not that I particularly mind insults, but please don't take this high-horse tone if you're going to refer to me as the scum of the community a few paragraphs down.

I am new to the game, as is airfair and neither one of us should be acting like some sort of authority on Melee until we can actually play at a decent level.

I'm not even trying to refute his advice in this thread, though I do think that telling someone to dash dance with intent is both axiomatic and a gross oversimplification.

 

[Blackavar]

Also Derphy, let me know if you come to Calgary for a tournament and we can play.

 

[AirFair]

How about we put this one behind us huh?

I'm no authority but I guess I just want to tell people what I know.

 

[Edwin Dexter]

On topic, I would just try to think about every deliberate move you make and ask yourself why you do it.

It sounds really microscopic, but Melee is a game where itty-bitty situations can greatly affect later outcomes. The better you get at it, the more deliberate every little move becomes. Most people think of dash dancing as just zoning into and out of where the opponent can hit you, but it's not that simple. PewPewU I think actually said that part of DDing is actually putting yourself a step ahead of your opponent into where you know you have future options to punish.

 

[Rachman]

Say what you will about Airfair's post(s) but he is either stating the obvious/generic advice that every new smasher needs to know or simply parroting a strong player. Personally, I find it both extremely endearing that someone always tries to help weaker players (where I know most of us just get frustrated) and good that someone answers the FAQs that everyone always asks even though the answers are easily available. I know I would have appreciated it if someone had been like that to me if I had posted on Smashboards when I started. I fail to see what his qualifications have to do with anything when it's admittedly "simple" and AFAIK usually the general consensus.

Funnily enough, his post was almost entirely correct and you'll be hard pressed to find a decent player disagree with most of it so the ad hominem is entirely unnecessary. That said, I don't believe movement is useless on its own. Play with any player on the PR who has a strong DD and you'll quickly understand why. Even if movement isn't used optimally or entirely understood, it still serves to obscure your intentions in a manner that the vast majority of lower level players would find extremely intimidating and pretty much everyone finds difficult to deal with. That said, it will help you improve how well you USE movement by understanding the importance of everything you do. Mindless movement is generally better than no movement unless it is just really unsafe but mindful movement is even better. It's just really bad to be a standing still target, as even a predictably moving target is harder to hit and deal with.

To address your original question, the basics were pretty much covered by Airfair (and presumably the "guides" by top players) and by the time you'd need more you'll either be speaking directly to higher level players, be able to actually sorta understand some of what goes in high level matches to actually get something from them (many lower level players watch high level matches and think they understand what is going on but actually miss most of it since it isn't easily observable), or simply be able to figure it out on your own.

 

[-=Untamed-Beast=-]

furta's post = Kreygasm
Spot on!

But this: "...someone answers the FAQs that everyone always asks even though the answers are easily available." Too much truth, please calm down.

Spoiler

I understand that a lot of FAQs are asked for the sake of generating discussion, or simply amassing more opinions on the matter, and that some are not. d: