Marth Matchup: FD as an actual counterpick?

[Jmook11]

This has been on my mind the past couple weeks, as I want to become better and more efficient at this matchup. I read Druggedfox's blog which can be found here https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...Pyq_5bGjbMxx3CmcCk_g0w&bvm=bv.103388427,d.cWw

After reading about all the options out of D-Throw, it almost seems like FD isn't as bad as people think:
-lower ceiling than Dreamland, allowing Up-Smashes to kill at lower %'s
-no platforms. It seems like platforms can interrupt her combo game against Marth, so without them it makes D-Throw-Fair/Ftilt/Tilt feel a little easier. Also, no need to worry about his Up-Tilt underneath the platforms
-Up-Air can juggle Marth forever
-as compared to Battlefield, FD has low walls, allowing Sheik to have recovery mixups via Walljump

While I am aware that Marth can just as easily juggle a Sheik, I feel like it is much better than Dreamland for the matchup.

Would love to hear anyones opinion on this!

 

[Poccoishere]

I am not well versed in the match up because I am relatively new to the scene and lack a sparing partner. From what I can tell Sheik would lose her ability to platform camp with needles and having grossly limited recovery options. I understand that same goes for Marth but a Sheik up b that is landed on stage is easier to punish than most recoveries. Also because Sheik doesn't have much of an approach game she has no where to run to bait out her punishes. Obviously I am thinking in worse case scenario but I think the jist of the match up was forgotten. Sheik has great punishing when her opponent is on the platform above her with SH Fair and has no trouble edge guarding Marth in general because she can needle him at almost any point of his recovery. Marth wins the neutral by default because he has more and better approach options than Sheik does(sans charged needles, but that wouldn't be neutral).

 

[Zellpree]

This has been on my mind the past couple weeks, as I want to become better and more efficient at this matchup. I read Druggedfox's blog which can be found here https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCMQFjABahUKEwjWxPrQ5YvIAhXFGj4KHdFvADs&url=http://portraitinsmash.blogspot.com/2015/02/doing-bad-stuff-to-marth-101.html&usg=AFQjCNEWX5hfPyq_5bGjbMxx3CmcCk_g0w&bvm=bv.103388427,d.cWw

After reading about all the options out of D-Throw, it almost seems like FD isn't as bad as people think:
-lower ceiling than Dreamland, allowing Up-Smashes to kill at lower %'s
-no platforms. It seems like platforms can interrupt her combo game against Marth, so without them it makes D-Throw-Fair/Ftilt/Tilt feel a little easier. Also, no need to worry about his Up-Tilt underneath the platforms
-Up-Air can juggle Marth forever
-as compared to Battlefield, FD has low walls, allowing Sheik to have recovery mixups via Walljump

While I am aware that Marth can just as easily juggle a Sheik, I feel like it is much better than Dreamland for the matchup.

Would love to hear anyones opinion on this!

I would definitely say that dreamland is best for sheik in this mu. I've played several marths on fd and I feel really uncomfortable. I feel that it's harder to get space back, once it's taken away, and can get combo'd to death if they're on point. As for Sheik, once she gets something started (usually by a grab) it doesn't lead to death. Blast zones are too large, up air is good against marth to keep him in the air, but hard to kill, especially on fd if they keep their jump. You could get a smooth combo ending with either up air or fair, but the marth can recover (unless at high percents ofc). You don't have a platform to escape to when recovering either.

 

[Ministry]

marth has a better neutral game then sheik, thats really the only part he wins the matchup. and FD helps out his neutral game a lot and doesnt help sheiks that much.

 

[twopercent]

Yoshi's Story and FD are **** for Sheik v Marth, but I'm not sure which is worse.. I just say YS because you can get KO'd sub 50% by a tipped F-smash, and I wouldn't personally play against a Marth in any matchup on YS. I would tend to agree with Zellpree about Dreamland; less risk of getting tipped because of small blast zones, but it forces you to rely on edge-guarding a bit more.. which Sheik seems to be pretty damn good at in this matchup.

 

[Nishifue]

aaaaaaaaaa

 

[The Prince: SDJ]

Yoshi's is great for shiek. You can soft land on platforms during tech chase downthrows and marth's combos don't really change because marth has to kill you off of one hit anyway.

 

[snapcaster]

:| You guys hate fd against marth? Stage is fine, the neutral is all about dash dancing anyways you never want to be above marth on a platform. Dreamland is better, but fd is a fine stage for sheik. It is a toss up if fod or fd are better to go to once dreamland is used/banned, but just gauge the marths style. I'm not a fan of yoshis, in order for it to be good for sheik you need to play in a pretty aggressive way that I think is ill suited for fighting marths anyways. Pokemon is the worst stage at a high level, but if you feel super uncomfortable with close quarter spacing out a marth; yoshis can be worse. If the marth is good at dash dancing and relies on it go to fod, otherwise go to fd. If you are newer and need a certain stage for good movement or whatever just go where you're comfy.

 

[Laudandus]

Being above Marth on a platform is ok if you can shield drop. Even if you can't, you can often maneuver down in other ways anyway.

If you're above Marth on FD, you're fairly ****ed. You're relying on them to make a mistake for you to not die at that point, I feel.

If I'm playing a Marth I feel will make a lot of mistakes, I ban Yoshi's because they sometimes randomly get kills there, and if I feel they will know how to juggle me I ban FD because I think it's actually much worse.

 

[Denjinpachi]

Loud Hondas is correct. I'd even take stadium over FD. At least we both will have to deal with nutty transformations.