Marth/Lucina Aggressive Tactics + Mindgames

[Rajing Clue]

Hey guys,

I'd like to go over a couple things that I've been doing with the character that has been working. It may be simple in theory but it really helps speed your game up and apply some decent pressure.

Apologies I don't have anything recorded, will try to upload as soon as I can...

Full Jump Double FAirs - due to the lack of being able to get out 2 aerials in one short hop, we need to resort to full jumps in certain situations in order to get the most pressure possible from an aerial approach... There is a specific way to do full hop double FAirs that will keep you as fast and agile as possible and I will explain...

The first FAir in your full hop needs to come out IMMEDIATELY as you jump so that you can space yourself to hit with it on the way up > at the top of your jump, fast fall immediately and land with another spaced F air- it is even possible to land behind the person to avoid shield grab.

This may seem like simple execution, but it is very effective at speeding up an aggressive lucina/marth playstyle.

Shield Breaker
Due to the mechanics and speed of Smash 4... I IMPLORE you to revisit B moves that you may not have used to full effectiveness in the past. I feel that there was a deliberate focus on making the special moves a bigger part of the game this iteration. Shield Breaker is an amazing move in Smash 4... the possibilities of application are vast.

One of the ways I incorporate it in my game is to counter the strength of the dash up + shield tactic. A well timed SHORT HOP RETREATING shield breaker is absolutely crucial in catching the shield happy players off guard. If you find yourself in the air with your opponent in front of you and landing at a similar time... it severely reduces their options if you start charging a Shield Breaker... if they land next to you... let it rip... if spaced correctly, they must spot dodge or roll. If they AIR DODGE before the ground thinking you will release it in the air... hold it and release once u touch the ground and you will catch their landing lag.

F THROW application
Don't underestimate the positional advantage Forward throw often gives you... The first couple times you catch someone with it... followup with an aggressive F Air or N Air pressure then continue. Once you've trained them to air dodge... switch your game up. F Throw then EMPTY JUMP to bait their air dodge... you can then land and F throw again OR F Throw then short hop and start charging shield breaker... they will air dodge after you train them and then land with your charged shield breaker to catch their air dodge landing frames....

COUNTER

USE IT BUT DON'T ABUSE IT.... IT CAN KO DEPENDING ON THE MOVES IT COUNTERS.

IN CLOSING...

I know this is just the tip of the iceberg, but I wanted to share some things that are working for me, in hopes that you all can take something to incorporate in your game. There are many other moves that work extremely well in addition to the above tactics. (d tilt, d air, etc) If you've got anything to add, post in the comments below! Thanks for reading all.


I'll be playing all day today - if you'd like some matches to see my lucina/marth just add me on 3ds and message me on here!

 

[Senshu]

Thanks for the read, and i'm looking forward to more, after catching my friend with Shield breaker a few times my eyes almost popped out of my head. It's so easy to punish with it now, which is great! in past smash games my friend would play as falco, and always wait for me to approach him with a fair so he could grab punish me and follow up with Falco stuff. But with the buffed Shield breaker I have the choice of Fair/Dair, Shield Breaker, and Grab, depending on what he's getting used to, if he spot dodges Shield breaker, I can either hold it a little longer to catch him, or prep for a grab.

 

[Crawfish]

Thanks for the read, and i'm looking forward to more, after catching my friend with Shield breaker a few times my eyes almost popped out of my head. It's so easy to punish with it now, which is great! in past smash games my friend would play as falco, and always wait for me to approach him with a fair so he could grab punish me and follow up with Falco stuff. But with the buffed Shield breaker I have the choice of Fair/Dair, Shield Breaker, and Grab, depending on what he's getting used to, if he spot dodges Shield breaker, I can either hold it a little longer to catch him, or prep for a grab.

if you space fair well you can't get grabbed

 

[Senshu]

if you space fair well you can't get grabbed

Good to keep in mind, and i've done it before, but sometimes I guess I go too ham, I'm also practicing a neat little trick of pivot shield breaking, you can turn immediately while running, in mid air and after a dodge roll if you can get the timing down

 

[Nasreth]

if you space fair well you can't get grabbed

Not so sure that's true actually. I had a kirby repeatedly chain grabbing me last night out of my attempts at high jump f-air. I'd switch it up between double or single f-airs but they'd always get the grab. I'd never been punished for it before and assumed it was my best approach to be aggressive, but it seems all they have to do is judge where you're going to land and grab you out of the landing lag.

 

[Crawfish]

Not so sure that's true actually. I had a kirby repeatedly chain grabbing me last night out of my attempts at high jump f-air. I'd switch it up between double or single f-airs but they'd always get the grab. I'd never been punished for it before and assumed it was my best approach to be aggressive, but it seems all they have to do is judge where you're going to land and grab you out of the landing lag.

you're talking melee right? maybe in brawl you can, but i'm almost certain melee has too much shield stun for that.

 

[EternalFlame]

Funny enough Rajing, I came to similar conclusions myself with that air shield breaker as a defensive and offensive tool. Marth can't Fair wall, but he's got a great selection of choices now for approaching and spacing opponents. Also, does that fthrow chain to the fair/nair? or is that just a pressure tactic?

 

[InfinityCollision]

if you space fair well you can't get grabbed

Perhaps not depending on enemy grab range and mobility (they probably can), but you will get hit by something if they're paying attention. 18 frames of landing lag, late autocancel window, and low shieldstun is a bad combination. This isn't Melee where fair is -0, nor Brawl where it's also pretty safe.

If you want safety on descent it pretty much has to be autocanceled nair now, or an appropriate mixup with counter/neutral b/empty landing to grab.

 

[Crawfish]

Perhaps not depending on enemy grab range and mobility (they probably can), but you will get hit by something if they're paying attention. 18 frames of landing lag, late autocancel window, and low shieldstun is a bad combination. This isn't Melee where fair is -0, nor Brawl where it's also pretty safe.

If you want safety on descent it pretty much has to be autocanceled nair now, or an appropriate mixup with counter/neutral b/empty landing to grab.

well yeah i was talkin about melee, he said older smash games and i was talkin about that. srry for getting off topic. if we are talking smash 4, shield pressure, i have no clue. i just grab them.