Marth help

[Tondemonaiyo]

I play sheik and my friend plays Marth, and he usually wins. No, he always wins. I use the down throw or side tilt to get him in the air and then try to f-air him but he uses counter pretty much every time i get him into the air. Anyway my question is (semi unrelated) that once im knowcked off the edge (in FD) he keeps spamming the crouch A then side A, or just side a. Even though I try to get up after attacking with Uair, Nair, or F-air, his range is just too long. Even with the dodge I still have trouble getting up, and I just get sent flying further and further and further each time. I once had 15% and got ***** until I was dead.
I thought about it, and I thought maybe changing into Zelda then using the up-b would help but I donno...I hear thats stupid...help?

 

[Anikdote]

I have this same problem against my brother who mains marth. Try and do a couple of edge grabs and out smart him, and every now again try and throw an up+b his way, he might not expect it. Other than that id like to see what others have to say because i too find myself having problems with that as well...

 

[ArcNatural]

If you watch any of the pro shiek vids you should see how to recover. Shiek's recovery is a blessing and a curse all at the same time. But once your on the edge it shouldn't be a problem to recover. Do a few ledge stalls (either by pressing back or down then double jumping to regrab the edge, remember to still sweetspot the double jump to avoid getting hit) then either ledgehop a fair if the are close in your invincibilty frames, ledgehop to waveland shield is also a good tactic. You can also infinite stall on the edge via teleport.

If your getting hit trying to come back from the ledge, you are just being waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too predictable. Just watch Azen, Drephen, Isai, DSF, w/e videos and you will see plenty of varied methods of returning to the stage.

 

[Tondemonaiyo]

I have this same problem against my brother who mains marth. Try and do a couple of edge grabs and out smart him, and every now again try and throw an up+b his way, he might not expect it. Other than that id like to see what others have to say because i too find myself having problems with that as well...

Thanks on the up-b, tht sounds smart.

If you watch any of the pro shiek vids you should see how to recover. Shiek's recovery is a blessing and a curse all at the same time. But once your on the edge it shouldn't be a problem to recover. Do a few ledge stalls (either by pressing back or down then double jumping to regrab the edge, remember to still sweetspot the double jump to avoid getting hit) then either ledgehop a fair if the are close in your invincibilty frames, ledgehop to waveland shield is also a good tactic. You can also infinite stall on the edge via teleport.

If your getting hit trying to come back from the ledge, you are just being waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too predictable. Just watch Azen, Drephen, Isai, DSF, w/e videos and you will see plenty of varied methods of returning to the stage.

Yeah im sweet spotting the whole time, it getting back up from the edge that gets me. The fair is useless since his fsmash is so long ranged. I just learned about the waveland to shield, so ill see if that works. Im only posting a thread because ive tried all those things, getting off the edge to sex kick, uAir, Fair, needles, chain (wtf), but somehow forgot the dodge. I watch captain jack and dsf alot, lemme see if i can get an example...

check out this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8iDejsTsuo
01:26, and then again a few secs later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9gKwJLfqtU
times: 00:30, 03:18 (not so great example),

i donno... i cant find any good examples...i heard about wall teching as your hit like in this dsf vs ken vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icq7yaS5U5I time: 01:12

although that was a diff situation...

 

[shadydentist]

If the marth doesn't know how to DI the downthrow, you can chaingrab him to a fairly high percent. At the very least, you get a ftilt out of it, possibly leading to a fair. I think that if done correctly, he'll still be in stun and won't be able to counter.

By the way, how does a marth DI out of shiek's downthrow? I must learn this...

As for recovering from the edge, only use the fair if he's close and not expecting it. But a lot of good marths will wavedash back to fsmash... this can cover a ledgehopped aerial, or a roll. Just be unpredictable with how you get on the edge. Sometimes the best thing to do is just hit up on the control stick.

 

[ShackDaddy]

when coming back use the up b ledgestall to confuse him then hp back up when he doesnt think u will or get up regular (no roll jump or attack) and hold block, u should be able to get up safely if u r under 100% dmg.

He shouldnt be able to counter fowartd tilts unless he is already as high dmg. Shield Grab and try up airs if the tilts and grabs rnt working.

 

[CmRoddy]

ok, about him using Counter on all your air moves. if you know he is going to do it, just jump up, don't do an attack, fake him out, and punish him for doing it. it sounds like its a habit for him to press Down-B now and he should be getting punished everytime he does it.

about getting back on the stage... Sheik is at a huge disadvantage when she is on the edge. thats just the fact of the life of Sheik. like the other guys said, change things up a bit and try to confuse him.

 

[Tondemonaiyo]

ok, about him using Counter on all your air moves. if you know he is going to do it, just jump up, don't do an attack, fake him out, and punish him for doing it. it sounds like its a habit for him to press Down-B now and he should be getting punished everytime he does it.

about getting back on the stage... Sheik is at a huge disadvantage when she is on the edge. thats just the fact of the life of Sheik. like the other guys said, change things up a bit and try to confuse him.

yeah i pretty much figured that and tried it and *****. Still lost, but im getting there! Although he did catch on and down a, but i caught onand atkd, so now its just seeing which one hell do, and hopefully i react in time. lol

ll do that, thnx!

 

[Mahjong]

when u fighting a guy with a longer close range than u.
u should u have to wait for the guy to come after u and counter attack.

 

[Tondemonaiyo]

when u fighting a guy with a longer close range than u.
u should u have to wait for the guy to come after u and counter attack.

haha i never thought of it that way

I donno, I just like to rush in there (in a [kind of] smart way though)

 

[BSeeD]

In fact, i thought Sheik was a counter to Marth !!

My way playing against Marth is easy... I spam ftilts and chain grabs (dthrows)

Then i edgeguard by edgehopping and bair or needle spamming...

If this is not working, i dunno what to tell you then...