Marth Approaches

[Toe]

Just wondering what are some of marths good approaches in the neutral, any advice will be appreciated!

 

[JUSTN]

Just wondering what are some of marths good approaches in the neutral, any advice will be appreciated!

SHFFL nair is a very strong approach, and so is double fair. also baiting, dashing back and grabbing on a predictable opponent is very useful as well, seeing as Marth's grab game is one of the best. his neutral game is not very strong overall, but his combo and finisher game is so once it is started, the rest is just execution.

 

[djmath]

dash dance to dtilt is a very safe approach, not recommended on airborne opponents
short hop double fair is gold
baiting out a grab is gold
short hop fastfall nair can work, but not on sheik; sheik will miss you up if you approach with nair.

Also, Marth's neutral game is pretty solid, I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. Maybe I'm just thinking of some choice PP vs M2K matches that were marth vs sheik where PP dominated the neutral game and wrecked m2k. But yeah, respect your opponent's dash dance and punish them when they make a mistake or shield for too long.

 

[Toe]

Thanks for the advice!

 

[Red Rice]

Some of the responses you received are not true at all.

SHFFLed nair is a terrible approach and you shouldn't do it unless you somehow know it's guaranteed. It's beyond easy to punish, especially if you're predictable. Same with double fair. Retreating fairs are a different story though. The more you play people better than you, you'll learn exactly what I mean. Marth has the best neutral game out of the characters with no projectiles. His movement and range is so fluid that you can control the stage very well.

As for approaches, try to never approach with an aerial unless you're spacing it correctly. Which means that you won't get shield grabbed. Otherwise learn to dash dance and weave/avoid moves and get grabs. Marth's grabs = death. DD dtilt is very good, it'll lead to a lot of grabs

 

[Tarp]

A few people have mentioned it, but what is the best way to DD dtilt? Should you dash long enough so that you can CC dtilt, or just do DD > wavedash > dtilt?

 

[Toe]

Some of the responses you received are not true at all.

SHFFLed nair is a terrible approach and you shouldn't do it unless you somehow know it's guaranteed. It's beyond easy to punish, especially if you're predictable. Same with double fair. Retreating fairs are a different story though. The more you play people better than you, you'll learn exactly what I mean. Marth has the best neutral game out of the characters with no projectiles. His movement and range is so fluid that you can control the stage very well.

As for approaches, try to never approach with an aerial unless you're spacing it correctly. Which means that you won't get shield grabbed. Otherwise learn to dash dance and weave/avoid moves and get grabs. Marth's grabs = death. DD dtilt is very good, it'll lead to a lot of grabs

Okay, thanks a lot for the advice!

 

[Toe]

Would a shield stop nair be a decent approach?

 

[JUSTN]

Some of the responses you received are not true at all.

SHFFLed nair is a terrible approach and you shouldn't do it unless you somehow know it's guaranteed. It's beyond easy to punish, especially if you're predictable. Same with double fair. Retreating fairs are a different story though. The more you play people better than you, you'll learn exactly what I mean. Marth has the best neutral game out of the characters with no projectiles. His movement and range is so fluid that you can control the stage very well.

As for approaches, try to never approach with an aerial unless you're spacing it correctly. Which means that you won't get shield grabbed. Otherwise learn to dash dance and weave/avoid moves and get grabs. Marth's grabs = death. DD dtilt is very good, it'll lead to a lot of grabs

idk SHFFL nair has been a strong approach for me, and i consider my opponents to be pretty good. i can see how fair can be pretty punishable, but if you properly space a nair it is very effective. his neutral game is strong for a character with no projectiles, but many high-tiers have good projectile games, which overall makes his not so good. Fox, Falco, Sheik, Peach, Dr.Mario, Samus, Pikachu, all have projectile games. i do agree that grabs and spacing is his game, having played with Marth for years, but things you are saying that are terrible or easy to punish are only done so if done predictably. if you mix up your approaches, you can use an aerial effectively in the neutral. no disrespect or trying to look like i know what im talking about, but this is my opinion. i gladly await your response. i want to learn as much as i can. first legit tourney in 2 weeks and im going all Marth

 

[JUSTN]

Would a shield stop nair be a decent approach?

that approach seems very effective, but can only be done a few times, maybe even once, before your opponent catches on. take Marth's counter for example, the only time that move has ever worked more than once or twice in a match with Ken vs PC Chris, and PC Chris was super aggressive and predicable.

 

[woodsta]

idk SHFFL nair has been a strong approach for me, and i consider my opponents to be pretty good.

I guarantee you that approaching with aerials is a surefire way to get punished against competent opponents. If you can SAFELY space/time nair/fair on shield every single time, without ever having gone to a tourny, i'd be shocked to my core. There will be holes and people will capitalize.

Picture this - some spacie has caught on to your tendency to shffl fair or nair. They are dashdancing, you go in, all they have to do is dd out of range and since their ground mobility is so good compared to you in the air, they have control. They get out of range and then do WHATEVER they want to you...

Marth doesn't really need to approach in the traditional sense (like what spacies will do) as far as I understand it. But if you want to poke, dtilt is the safest since you can interrupt it so fast.

 

[Red Rice]

@ JUSTN

What phrase said^^^^

Also, think about M2K. How often does he approach with aerials, if ever? On the rare occasions that he does, they are spaced. Otherwise you can see people like Mango, PP, and even Hax, capitalizing on them.

 

[Toe]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the in depth responses!

 

[JUSTN]

I guarantee you that approaching with aerials is a surefire way to get punished against competent opponents. If you can SAFELY space/time nair/fair on shield every single time, without ever having gone to a tourny, i'd be shocked to my core. There will be holes and people will capitalize.

Picture this - some spacie has caught on to your tendency to shffl fair or nair. They are dashdancing, you go in, all they have to do is dd out of range and since their ground mobility is so good compared to you in the air, they have control. They get out of range and then do WHATEVER they want to you...

Marth doesn't really need to approach in the traditional sense (like what spacies will do) as far as I understand it. But if you want to poke, dtilt is the safest since you can interrupt it so fast.

i completely understand. i am trying as hard as i can to not sound like one of those people who is like "i know everything even tho i havnt gone to a tourney, im the best, etc.". the only reason i havnt gone is because there isnt too much of a scene around me. i play with the best people i can find, so i do know advanced tech and decent approaches.

the people i play with most frequently i can beat pretty convincingly, but they have been adapting, the same way you talked about, to my approaches, and possibly taking 1-2 more stocks than usual. i have had to use more grabs and d-tilts, especially d-tilts because i have never really used those too often, to change up my game, with the potential fairs and nairs thrown in. i can definitely see myself getting better, so thanks!

 

[Littlebear]

So what I've learned from this thread is DD until you can get a grab or d-tilt, and an occasional spaced fair. And if your opponent sucks, you can double fair or SHFFL nair? That seems very predictable. Also I'm with Tarp, do you wait for the dash animation to end so you can CC your d-tilt, or just wavedash into d-tilt?

 

[woodsta]

If you're dashing one way and need to quickly dtilt the other, dash the other way, wd in place (or back or fwd, depending on their position) and dtilt. Sometimes you just need to do it before the run starts (allowing you to CC) and in those situations wavedash is your friend. Another option is pivot dtilt but it's too hard (at least for me) to do consistently.

I think the best marths do not simply DD waiting for a mistake to capitalize on, they will use their spacing and pokes to FORCE a mistake. Which is a process that is less about specific game mechanics and more about the ability to mentally dominate your opponent, and good situational understanding

 

[Mr. Bean]

Good stuff! I already knew that you need to dash dance and wait for a grab opportunity, but for some reason i never looked at dtilt like it's being described here. I've been playing for almost a year now and in my experiences against people better than me I can say that SHFFL nair and double fair approach usually lead to my death.

 

[Fliperotchy]

As a long time Falcon co-main, I can say if Marth approaches with aerials, I'm a very happy dude. Mostly because all it takes is DD grab or run up shield and I get an opening. Even more so, if a Marth (even really solid players in my scene like Vro and Oro) spaces an aerial and they expect you to dash in and do something, they will L cancel and immediately jab or utilt to cover their ass. DO NOT DO THIS. Don't get in a situation where you have to throw out an utilt unless you know they're going to bite on your aerial and you spaced really well. You'll get hurt.

Outside of that, stay grounded, and space aerials SAFELY. Not all willy nilly.