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Mario Overhaul

TheJalapeno

Smash Ace
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
555
Location
The Big CA
Okay, so what do I need to master, because I want to get good with Mario, I've been practicing but something doesn't seem to be clicking and I'm having trouble with just generally getting a feel for his offensive and defensive.

So I need some help with these things, I don't know, I've practiced for a long time and I don't feel like I'm going anywhere and I'm a bit depressed, don't refer me to some big topic about some guy who discusses Mario I just want some in depth advice from all the different Mario players out there.
 

d2Law89

Smash Journeyman
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Mar 7, 2007
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301
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Columbus, OH
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3DS FC
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I personally think Mario's strongest offense is his BAIR edgeguard. With my playstyle, tech-chasing is my strongest defense...but I'd go with learning to do his Down-B tornado perfectly.

With that said Learn:
1) Mario's edgeguarding limits <How many times he can BAIR/UAIR and make it back to the edge>

2) Maximizing Mario's tornado recovery <Smashing the B button a billion times will also help you with finger speed>


You really can only become a better player by playing against several people who whoop your *** and force you to surpass your current limit. However, those two crucial things you can practice with a CPU.
 

TheJalapeno

Smash Ace
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
555
Location
The Big CA
So any other advice? Because Gimpy made me realize that Mario aint the fastest character and you have to get creative with his combo' ability. So any advice would be appreciated, I want to get better!
 

d2Law89

Smash Journeyman
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I think Mario is pretty fluid and fast if you constantly waveland out of attacks.
 

Super Mari0

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
446
Location
Germany, NRW
You know theres a point in Smash where you play against Smashers that have mindgames superior to yours either if its a good Mindgame system like Eggz' and Green Marios or its just SPAM.
In Smash you have to have a good psychologie of the game.

There are different types of Mindgames :

•BerserkerMode Mindgames : Something like : If he Shields, you grab him, if he made a mistake, you **** him, he will feel unconfident if he is not advanced and mostly will be Shield grab spamming you.
Then you trick him with a fake SHFFL approach ( Empty Airials - You jump to the foe and WD from the Dash back away from him ) and when he tries to grab he did a mistake, he has Lag, you **** him.
So one things sure you should Master the Combos such as Uair shffls got that???
Now you will need to know HOW to **** him right? Well its best to try these :
-Normal Grab approach (run to grab) Dont do this often it just is unpredictable and good for a change - You combo him obviously after the Grab
-SHFFL Mode ( SH-Bair-WD-and again or Berserker mode with Nairs,Dairs and Uair shffls and then GRAB something like that )
-SHFFL Mode - Non-Berserker (Here you do an attempt to SHFFL him to a Grab or UpTilt and then Combo him but dont repeat the attacks, here you use some techniques before going at him (Platform stuff, DashDance stuff, EmptyAirials stuff GOT IT????))


•Mindgames of your opponent Abuse Mindgames : You use the attempts and Mindgames of your foe to COUNTER it with your Mindgame such as this :
Sometimes when you cant counter its a good Idea to run away and do Projectiles (FullJump to Wave Land please) and try something out depending on how he is acting right now and WHAT he is doing!
So a good way to co-operate with this method is also for example using Platforms to come and go but thats hard and need practice.
So you mostly allways PAY ATTENTION to what you Foe is doing and REACT to that GOT IT SOLDIER????
I cant explain well... you will have to try it out yourself to understand and its a good Idea to look at GreenMario Dogysamiches and Eggz' matches to try and get a picture of WHAT I MEAN.

Now theres a Mindgame that is the best :
•Do both mindgames-mindgame-mode : You do Berserker and you do Mindgame Abuse-mode. You always change!!! Always switch modes and he will never be able to defeat you and predict you!
BUT!!! You obviously have to understand what I exactly mean with both of those Mindgame modes to use the Perfect Combined Mindgame.
Other than that go and read Maelstorms guide, watch Videos of these Marios :

-Eggz
-Dogysamich
-Boss
-Green Mario

Here ar emoves that are Essential to Mario :

Dair SHFFL
Nair SHFFL
Bair SHFFL/ WaveDash Short Hop Bair WD
Bair WAVELAND (Difficult)
Grab Combos
Uair Chains ( Begin with a Low Uair continue with fast falled Uairs )
JumpCancel'd Grabs (Mostly DThrows, UpThrow FastFallers)
Running away to FireballWaveLand tricks
Knowing when to do what (Reffering to Fairs and such)

FullJump Dair to Uair/Bair/Nair to some Combo (Variable like this : FullJump Dair if opponent is in reach BAIR and Grab him (Works on Falcon) )
UpTilts - Space Attacks and then UpTilt to Uair Chains, After DThrow/UpThrow, WD Forward to UpTilts to Uair Chains.


But thats not it, you need to have a good MindgameSystem (read my Quote it explains a bit of what I mean)
 

Help!

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
250
Location
Washington
You really need to be smart playing with Mario in my opinion. I main Mario and I'm not the greatest out there like eggz or like that sort, but i know how to play fairly well. I would say that edgeguarding is one of Mario's greatest assets along with his comboing ability. So just combo them to a good dmg and try to keep pushing them off the edge and keep em off. Heh I'm not being real helpful but they have guides and stuff that will help a lot. Just be smart of how you play.
 

Super Mari0

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
446
Location
Germany, NRW
Well I would never say EG is one of his greatest assets =(
Its rather his awesome Grab , Mindgame compability (you can easly overwhelm your opponent when using my mindgame theorie (not just mine every good experienced player uses it but sometimes they dont see the inner greatness of mindgames)) and his Combos as well his very good Variiable Attacks to combo and his Combo Starters.

But yeah his EG aint bad especially coz of his Bair and Cape right^^ ;D
 

maelstrom218

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
Messages
1,040
Location
Madison, WI
For Mario, there's 3 things that are critically important to learn: learning to combo, learning to grab, and learning to edgeguard.

1) Grabbing

Grabbing with Mario is by far one of the most difficult things to do. Ever. It's also something you have to have a knack for, because 75% of his combos come from grabbing (the rest from f-air setups or u-tilt hits)--so if you don't nail a grab on the opponent, your damage output gets significantly lower.

That being said, grabbing is a pain because Mario's grab range is pretty lousy. He has to get extremely close to grab without any help at all (i.e. from stuff such as projectile rushdown like Doc/Falco or good spacing like Marth/Ganon). Even worse, nearly every character above Mario has some move/quality/trait that nullifies Mario's grab-- Fox/Falco has their Shine that stops shieldgrabbing as does their speed/rushdown, Marth has his long-range sword spacing, Sheik has her speed and practically no-lag aerials. . .the list goes on and on.

So how do you grab? You basically have to mindgame them into it. Dashdancing into a jump-cancelled grab is pretty standard. You can also spot-dodge -> grab, or shieldgrab, or wavedash -> grab (really good against Marth), techchase -> grab. . .you have lots of options available.

The thing to remember here is twofold: one, most of the characters you'll play against will always have something to nullify Mario's grab. And two, you'll need to find a way around that, because if you don't grab, you don't get damage output (from your combos). Throughout the match, you should be thinking at every second "what can I do to grab him." I'd go even as far as saying that your goal shouldn't be to KO the opponent--it should be to grab. (An exaggeration, but you get the point).

2) Combo'ing

Okay, you've grabbed the *******. . .so now what?

At this point, you already know about your combo tools: u-throw for fastfallers, d-throw for heavies/floaties. U-tilt can chain into itself; if they DI that, you can go into shffl'd u-airs to follow their DI or go with dash -> jump cancelled u-smash. That's the basic gist of it.

As an aside, my personal favorite is Eggz-style u-throw -> full-jumped rising d-air -> falling fastfalled u-air -> (land) shffl'd u-air -> sex kick finisher. U-throw to the d-air is pretty decent on floaties at low %s, and is a nice mix-up from your standard d-throw chaingrab/techchase options.

Anyways, I also want to point out that contrary to popular belief, Mario's combo game is crap. His combos revolve around his u-airs, but anyone who knows how to DI can DI down and away from that and tech, so they can escape it pretty easily. . .especially Marth (who can f-air out of it), and floaties (who can sex kick out of it), and fastfallers (where it's difficult to set them up for u-air chains at the perfect angle/%).

What this means is that you have to start relying on techchasing out of botched combos to get the maximum damage output you want. Let's say they manage to DI correctly and escape the next u-air in your u-air chain. You know they'll tech, so you anticipate that, and instead of doing another pointless u-air, you guess whether they'll tech left/right/in place, and aim a shffl'd f-air at where they'll land, thus setting them up for another combo.

You'll have to learn to techchase properly, especially with shffl'd f-air, jump-cancelled u-smash, and grabs, as these all help continue combos (since they're all vertical launchers). You can techchase with other less combo-oriented stuff too (like d-smash, shffl'd sex kick) which you may want to start off with, since shffl'd sex kicks are much easier to aim.

3) Edgeguarding

Mario's KO potential is pure crap, as I'm sure you've realized. F-smash is a fairly good move, but it's more for spacing than anything else, since it's certainly not as spammable nor as easily combo'd into as half of the other KO moves in the game (think Marth's f-smash, Falcon's knee, Sheik's f-air, etc.)

You then have to rely on another means of KO's: namely, edgeguarding. It's a firm belief of mine that Mario should be EXTREMELY aggressive when it comes to edgeguarding. You should be willing to jump off the stage. Go ahead and do crazy, unconventional stuff to throw off the opponent. Do anything, as long as you keep the ******* away from the edge.

I'm pretty sure you have a good enough idea of what edgeguarding with Mario consists of. B-airs off the stage are his edgeguarding bread-and-butter; you can perform them any number of ways, from an edgehog -> drop down -> double jump b-air -> up-b recover to other stuff like wavedash off the stage -> cancel edgehog with a fastfalled b-air into the opponent -> double jump -> up-b recover. Stuff like that. You can try b-air'ing in the opposite direction to knock them into the side of the stage to stage spike them, but only if you think they can't tech properly.

Besides off-the-stage stuff like b-airs and sex kicks, there's also on-the-stage stuff that you can always pull off that'll deter your recovering opponent. Shffl'd f-airs at the edge can spike them (though it's not normally recommended since everyone knows how to meteor cancel), shffl'd d-airs work well in disrupting some recoveries (namely Falcon/Ganon's up-b and Fox/Falco's side-b), down-angled f-smash/f-tilt (these are REALLY good; don't underestimate the down-angled f-tilt even though it has no knockback), d-tilt (especially at opponents at high % since it's a perfect setup for a sex kick finisher), and even the kick of Mario's AAA ground combo (the kick actually has a huge hitbox that goes underneath the stage, even more so than his d-air).

And don't forget the cape and fireballs for random pseudo-spikes.

Don't be afraid to experiment and goof around with edgeguarding. Mario can often pull random stuff out of his *** to edgeguard; it's really one of his strengths. Just remember that your main source of KOs will usually be through edgeguarding, so take care to do anything possible and keep your opponent off the stage once you get him off.
 

Help!

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
250
Location
Washington
Lol I love your posts maelstrom I just always get really into reading em and theyre like why didnt i already know that? I usually do most of that when playing with friends, but when i go to tournaments and play people at gameclucks I'm always scared ****less to like grab and edgegaurd, cause i like suck and i just think im going to get myself killed, but I'm starting to loosen up at the tournaments and start doing stuff that i usually do when playing with friends and not suck as much.
 

mario-man

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
1,840
Mario is faster than is his reputation it seems. Just look at Eggz for a second, duhh! He's fast! everyone knows he is. Here's what I see though, Eggz could be faster than he is, even though it might seem impossible. Now he ISN'T the fastest character, I will agree with that. BUT!!!! He can come awfully close to even keeping up with the fastest characters if played right. Just watch any vids of Eggz vs Silent Wolf, then add my previous statement about Eggz, and you've got a much faster character than everyone seems to think. Even other Mario players don't even realize his actual speed when played well.

I'd also like to add a few names to SuperMari0's list of good players to watch.

1. Tha Shogun is a very good Mario as well, but he seems to get overlooked alot.

2. Silv is good, though I don't know if he still plays or not.

3. LOL I've even heard from Eggz himself that Pc Chris has a good Mario though he rarely plays him, so I doubt he has any vids. LOL
 

Prevail

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
140
Location
NE
Jalapeno, I can't offer as much advice as maelstrom (good stuff by the way), but I can share my personal experience.

I too, reached a point where I began to see very little improvement. However, by playing with a variety of characters, attending my first tournament, and getting used to reading opponents (not just focusing on myself) my mario became much more solid (although I main doc :p).

The best thing you can do right now is to play against a lot of other people, and develop your own style. If you have your technical skills down, then focus on using mario's strengths (b-air, chain throw, u-air, etc.) to your advantage. At the same time, don't forget about mario's weaknesses either. He isn't very strong, nor does he have a very good recovery, so you'll have to recognize these things and adapt to them. All I'm trying to say is that you should know your character inside and out, so you'll be able to progress your play style.

You're on the right track (wanting to improve), and I have confidence that you'll get to where you want to be =)

If you need clarification on any of the advice that I've given you, feel free to ask.

Good luck =)
 

TheJalapeno

Smash Ace
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
555
Location
The Big CA
Yeah. Everything helped! It did, I read Maelstrom's thing (printed it out and practice) and I discovered the magic of jump and crouch canceling. Just one more thing. I jump cancel but occasionally I do two rapid U-airs, one right after the other one. I don't know how I do it, but every now and then it just happens, does anyone know how to do it?
 

d2Law89

Smash Journeyman
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Mar 7, 2007
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301
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-lol double aerials-

Either you're doing a full jump and therefore getting both UAIRs out, or you're doing a shorthop and only the first UAIR has the full hitbox.
 
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