Pegasus Knight
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2007
- Messages
- 708
Author's Foreword: I'm not presenting this character thread as a serious attempt to get Marcia (or any other character like her from Fire Emblem) in Brawl. Rather, this is an exercise in character design; a few users indicated disbelief that a mounted combatant could work in Smash, and I wanted to see if we can find a way to make such a character fit in. That said, I'm presenting this design document as if I were indeed submitting something to Sakurai for inclusion in Brawl. And just for the sake of completeness, this design document could work for any other Fire Emblem character with the same character-class as Marcia.
Marcia (Fire Emblem 9 – 'The Path of Radiance' - GameCube)
(Insert image of character here, if I can actually find one.)
Overview: Marcia is the result of combining two opposite design goals. On one hand, she and her pegasus mount make for a very large character; the rider may be a typical girl, but a winged horse does take up a lot of room. Yet on the other, neither mount nor rider are known to be powerhouses; they rely on speed to get in the first hit, and continue to build momentum from there.
To give a comparison, this is a character that would need to mix the philosophies of Bowser and Sheik, and then stand out as truly unique.
Physics
Size: Due to her riding a pegasus, Marcia takes up more physical space on a level than any other character to date, with the possible exception of Ridley (if added to Brawl). Most of this is horizontal, since the wings take up space on a 'Z' axis of space that Brawl simply does not care about; it uses only the X and Y dimensions. We can probably accurately depict the pegasus as being about 1.5 (one point five, not 'fifteen') times as wide as Bowser...possibly a tad wider, but that's a good ballpark. It should probably be about Bowser's height as well.
Height-wise, Marcia would also be the tallest character; she's sitting atop a mount, and thus higher than most others. Adding Marth atop this '1.5x Bowser' would give a decent depiction of the height we're going for. Ideally the mount's head should be kept up high, to prevent unusual hitboxes against Marcia; hitting mount or rider should damage the character and this needs to be intuitive.
Weight/Float: This is where things get interesting; the character needs to accurately reflect the weight of a winged horse (plus rider, but she's pretty light on her own), while also reflecting that this duo flies just about everywhere. My solution for this is to make her a heavy character with physics similar to Bowser and Link when not engaging in multiple jumps/flight.
When flying, this should change significantly. I believe that physics similar to Kirby's multiple jumps, Pit's presumed flight mode, Peach's own physics, and others can be used to accurately depict this. The question is if the Brawl engine can handle these kinds of physics changes mid-game, and do so in a way that is natural to both Marcia's player and the opponent. My guess is that it is possible, since Kirby can change his physics drastically (falling like a rock, etc.) in Melee.
Flight/Jumps: The aerial capabilities of the mount and rider are best reflected either through a genuine flight mode, or multiple jumps, or a mix of both. Peach can provide us decent examples of flight physics, though it might do well to speed up Marcia's flight while making it less responsive to changes on the left and right axis; none of this instantly backing up that Peach does, for example.
Pit may also offer some good flight physics to work from, depending on how he works out; this author lacks those details at this time. But Pit and Kirby's multi-jump physics could also be used to help represent this high-flier.
However, all of these things combined would give Marcia unprecedented recovery abilities. We need to do something about that. Perhaps something unique.
Unique Drawback – No Edgegrab: Marcia cannot Edgegrab. At all. Her pegasus has no limbs capable of this (except perhaps its mouth, but that would look ridiculous), and Marcia herself will not fight without her mount, and thus for purposes of game design she should 'go down with the ship' when her pegasus cannot get back onto the stage.
This places an emphasis on using her high-flying physics to get her solidly back onto the stage, as an enemy that keeps nudging her off horizontally will eventually exhaust her flight time and/or jumps, ensuring a kill unless the Marcia player has a solid aerial game and can repel their follow-up attacks.
As we do not know about various other aspects of Brawl's physics at the time of writing (June 29, 2007), I cannot offer further comment on things that could very easily change, such as how shielding/blocking works, etc.
Attacks:
The core of any character is how they do damage. Marcia has several interesting ways of fighting, as Smash's first mounted character. Well, second if you count Wario, I suppose.
Normal Attacks, Tilt Attacks, and Throws:
This document is already getting pretty long, so I will simply offer some broad ideas.
Most of her attacks should revolve around the use of a spear. This may give her a disjointed hitbox, but exactly how long of one is up for debate. Remember, Marcia's attacking from behind the head of the pegasus, and the head will have a hitbox too; her range advantage may be very small indeed compared to Marth's disjointed hitboxes in Melee.
Fortunately, the weapon is long enough to let a mounted character attack at all heights. High, low, medium,, we can have swipes, stabs, and so forth to cover all the angles a Smash character needs to attack at. I'm seeing a character that would do lots of dash-by attacks, swooping in to strike, etc.
Her throws are the interesting part. Marcia only has one hand free (the other is wielding her spear), and she's sitting too far behind the pegasus to grab at enemies. Thus, the winged horse will be instrumental in throws. Its grab animations could revolve around biting onto a character to hold them, with hoof-stomps (or lance stabs from Marcia) working as the 'hit during grab' attack. The down-throw could sling the target to the ground for a quick trampling, the forward-throw would just toss them away. Back-throw could toss the enemy behind for a “mule-kick”, and up-throw could toss the enemy up for Marcia to skewer with her spear.
Specials ('B Moves'):
Marcia's neutral-B could be a javelin throw, usable both on the ground and in the air. It could function similar to Link's bow-and-arrow, chargeable for more speed and distance.
Horizontal-B could be a flying/charging stab, similar to Fox's and Falco's own horizontal-Bs.
Down-B I'm not immediately sure on, we can fill in that blank later.
Up-B could engage her flight mode, similar to Pit (or however his Up-B works).
Final Smash: We already have one built-in from Fire Emblem, the “Triangle Attack.” When three such pegasus-riders are in proper formation around the enemy, they can all attack in unison for heavy damage.
We could simulate that in Brawl by having two more riders (using 3D models similar to Marcia's) swooping in to help her attack. My major concern with this is a technological one; in the worst case scenario...Brawl on the Wii must be able to render a maximum of four Marcias (let's assume all four players want to use her), plus two more showing up temporarily for the Final Smash. That's six pegasi and six riders, total. Can the Wii handle this? If so, the technical problem is non-existent.
Otherwise, a new Final Smash must be designed.
Conclusion
As I mentioned in the foreword, I have no illusions that Marcia or any character like her will be in Brawl. I would love to see her in the game, but I doubt it will happen. Instead, this was an exercise in character design, to see if a mounted combatant (especially one that flies!) can be properly and convincingly done in Smash. One person's skepticism is another's inspiration, after all.
If you like the idea, I could use your help with two things. First, I need a good image of Marcia to add to the top of this article. Preferably one that I can either easily cut down to a sane resolution, or already is in a decent size and won't annoy the reader.
I could also use discussion on fleshing out her move-list, especially her Bs/Specials. For that matter, input on any aspect of Marcia is welcome.
Marcia (Fire Emblem 9 – 'The Path of Radiance' - GameCube)
(Insert image of character here, if I can actually find one.)
Overview: Marcia is the result of combining two opposite design goals. On one hand, she and her pegasus mount make for a very large character; the rider may be a typical girl, but a winged horse does take up a lot of room. Yet on the other, neither mount nor rider are known to be powerhouses; they rely on speed to get in the first hit, and continue to build momentum from there.
To give a comparison, this is a character that would need to mix the philosophies of Bowser and Sheik, and then stand out as truly unique.
Physics
Size: Due to her riding a pegasus, Marcia takes up more physical space on a level than any other character to date, with the possible exception of Ridley (if added to Brawl). Most of this is horizontal, since the wings take up space on a 'Z' axis of space that Brawl simply does not care about; it uses only the X and Y dimensions. We can probably accurately depict the pegasus as being about 1.5 (one point five, not 'fifteen') times as wide as Bowser...possibly a tad wider, but that's a good ballpark. It should probably be about Bowser's height as well.
Height-wise, Marcia would also be the tallest character; she's sitting atop a mount, and thus higher than most others. Adding Marth atop this '1.5x Bowser' would give a decent depiction of the height we're going for. Ideally the mount's head should be kept up high, to prevent unusual hitboxes against Marcia; hitting mount or rider should damage the character and this needs to be intuitive.
Weight/Float: This is where things get interesting; the character needs to accurately reflect the weight of a winged horse (plus rider, but she's pretty light on her own), while also reflecting that this duo flies just about everywhere. My solution for this is to make her a heavy character with physics similar to Bowser and Link when not engaging in multiple jumps/flight.
When flying, this should change significantly. I believe that physics similar to Kirby's multiple jumps, Pit's presumed flight mode, Peach's own physics, and others can be used to accurately depict this. The question is if the Brawl engine can handle these kinds of physics changes mid-game, and do so in a way that is natural to both Marcia's player and the opponent. My guess is that it is possible, since Kirby can change his physics drastically (falling like a rock, etc.) in Melee.
Flight/Jumps: The aerial capabilities of the mount and rider are best reflected either through a genuine flight mode, or multiple jumps, or a mix of both. Peach can provide us decent examples of flight physics, though it might do well to speed up Marcia's flight while making it less responsive to changes on the left and right axis; none of this instantly backing up that Peach does, for example.
Pit may also offer some good flight physics to work from, depending on how he works out; this author lacks those details at this time. But Pit and Kirby's multi-jump physics could also be used to help represent this high-flier.
However, all of these things combined would give Marcia unprecedented recovery abilities. We need to do something about that. Perhaps something unique.
Unique Drawback – No Edgegrab: Marcia cannot Edgegrab. At all. Her pegasus has no limbs capable of this (except perhaps its mouth, but that would look ridiculous), and Marcia herself will not fight without her mount, and thus for purposes of game design she should 'go down with the ship' when her pegasus cannot get back onto the stage.
This places an emphasis on using her high-flying physics to get her solidly back onto the stage, as an enemy that keeps nudging her off horizontally will eventually exhaust her flight time and/or jumps, ensuring a kill unless the Marcia player has a solid aerial game and can repel their follow-up attacks.
As we do not know about various other aspects of Brawl's physics at the time of writing (June 29, 2007), I cannot offer further comment on things that could very easily change, such as how shielding/blocking works, etc.
Attacks:
The core of any character is how they do damage. Marcia has several interesting ways of fighting, as Smash's first mounted character. Well, second if you count Wario, I suppose.
Normal Attacks, Tilt Attacks, and Throws:
This document is already getting pretty long, so I will simply offer some broad ideas.
Most of her attacks should revolve around the use of a spear. This may give her a disjointed hitbox, but exactly how long of one is up for debate. Remember, Marcia's attacking from behind the head of the pegasus, and the head will have a hitbox too; her range advantage may be very small indeed compared to Marth's disjointed hitboxes in Melee.
Fortunately, the weapon is long enough to let a mounted character attack at all heights. High, low, medium,, we can have swipes, stabs, and so forth to cover all the angles a Smash character needs to attack at. I'm seeing a character that would do lots of dash-by attacks, swooping in to strike, etc.
Her throws are the interesting part. Marcia only has one hand free (the other is wielding her spear), and she's sitting too far behind the pegasus to grab at enemies. Thus, the winged horse will be instrumental in throws. Its grab animations could revolve around biting onto a character to hold them, with hoof-stomps (or lance stabs from Marcia) working as the 'hit during grab' attack. The down-throw could sling the target to the ground for a quick trampling, the forward-throw would just toss them away. Back-throw could toss the enemy behind for a “mule-kick”, and up-throw could toss the enemy up for Marcia to skewer with her spear.
Specials ('B Moves'):
Marcia's neutral-B could be a javelin throw, usable both on the ground and in the air. It could function similar to Link's bow-and-arrow, chargeable for more speed and distance.
Horizontal-B could be a flying/charging stab, similar to Fox's and Falco's own horizontal-Bs.
Down-B I'm not immediately sure on, we can fill in that blank later.
Up-B could engage her flight mode, similar to Pit (or however his Up-B works).
Final Smash: We already have one built-in from Fire Emblem, the “Triangle Attack.” When three such pegasus-riders are in proper formation around the enemy, they can all attack in unison for heavy damage.
We could simulate that in Brawl by having two more riders (using 3D models similar to Marcia's) swooping in to help her attack. My major concern with this is a technological one; in the worst case scenario...Brawl on the Wii must be able to render a maximum of four Marcias (let's assume all four players want to use her), plus two more showing up temporarily for the Final Smash. That's six pegasi and six riders, total. Can the Wii handle this? If so, the technical problem is non-existent.
Otherwise, a new Final Smash must be designed.
Conclusion
As I mentioned in the foreword, I have no illusions that Marcia or any character like her will be in Brawl. I would love to see her in the game, but I doubt it will happen. Instead, this was an exercise in character design, to see if a mounted combatant (especially one that flies!) can be properly and convincingly done in Smash. One person's skepticism is another's inspiration, after all.
If you like the idea, I could use your help with two things. First, I need a good image of Marcia to add to the top of this article. Preferably one that I can either easily cut down to a sane resolution, or already is in a decent size and won't annoy the reader.
I could also use discussion on fleshing out her move-list, especially her Bs/Specials. For that matter, input on any aspect of Marcia is welcome.