Making stages PM friendly/viable

[Dranakar]

Hi, I'm fairly new, but I've been lurking the forum for a while now

I have a little bit of knowledge about modding stages and such, but havn't wanted to post any unfinished/undone stages until I had them PM viable. As far as I've gathered the camera has changed in PM, so obviously you have to import the camera settings for a similar stage, but is there anything else needed to make it a Project M stage?

Also I've been wondering alot about what make stages "viable"? I just think it's a shame that there are only a few stages played competetivly

 

[Sandfall]

To make it a Project M stage, all you have to worry about is the camera Even then, the stage will still work without it (it just won't be consistent with the rest of the PM stages). To make a stage competitively viable, you pretty much just have to worry about platform layout, stage size, and blast zones. You also want to make sure there are no walk-offs or hazards. On the other hand, not everyone plays the game competitively, so casual stages can be fun too.

I love seeing new custom stages, so I'm actually really curious to see what you are working on. You should post previews!

 

[Rage83]

Hi, I'm fairly new, but I've been lurking the forum for a while now

I have a little bit of knowledge about modding stages and such, but havn't wanted to post any unfinished/undone stages until I had them PM viable. As far as I've gathered the camera has changed in PM, so obviously you have to import the camera settings for a similar stage, but is there anything else needed to make it a Project M stage?

Also I've been wondering alot about what make stages "viable"? I just think it's a shame that there are only a few stages played competetivly

This isn't everything, but I know a few things. Walls shouldn't be anywhere on the playing field, for one. Also, try to eliminate any stage hazards.

The main platform

A basic stage setup would be a main platform with or without some carefully placed floating platforms. This can be flat like Battlefield/Final Destination, or angled. Have an example:

Floating Platforms

As for the floating platforms, they can go off of the main stage and be viable, but only if the time they spend away from the stage is rather short.(Think of Project M's version of Smashville) Also, be sure to make sure that they are only slightly above a jump(or two)'s height up. As for number, I would say to limit them to four(possibly five), depending on the platforms themselves. The platforms should also be flat or at a reasonable angle(45 degrees, for example). With size, I'd recommend something similar to those of Dreamland 64.

Camera

When it comes to the camera, you can import a camera from a similar PM stage, OR edit two values in the STPM of the original stage's camera(found by libertyernie): (Value17 = 1.25, Value19 = 2)

 

[Dranakar]

Wow! Thanks for the quick and precise replies!
@ Sandfall : I've mostly been messing around with other peoples stages since I'm no good with 3d-modeling. Is it ok to post edits as long as you give credit? Or are there rules I don't know? ^^
Also, I've noticed alot of really nice stage backgrounds which is basically just walk-off stages, I'm thinking of making them actual stages of some sort

@ Rage83 : Thank you! Nice guidelines! Will keep them in mind!

 

[Sandfall]

Wow! Thanks for the quick and precise replies!
@ Sandfall : I've mostly been messing around with other peoples stages since I'm no good with 3d-modeling. Is it ok to post edits as long as you give credit? Or are there rules I don't know? ^^
Also, I've noticed alot of really nice stage backgrounds which is basically just walk-off stages, I'm thinking of making them actual stages of some sort

Yeah, it's cool. You see it on the Vault all the time. If it's a stage they made from scratch however, I usually prefer to ask them before I post it to the Vault. And yeah, a lot of the older stages on BrawlVault are in need of modernizing. I'm excited to see what you come up with!

 

[Rage83]

Wow! Thanks for the quick and precise replies!
@ Sandfall : I've mostly been messing around with other peoples stages since I'm no good with 3d-modeling. Is it ok to post edits as long as you give credit? Or are there rules I don't know? ^^
Also, I've noticed alot of really nice stage backgrounds which is basically just walk-off stages, I'm thinking of making them actual stages of some sort

@ Rage83 : Thank you! Nice guidelines! Will keep them in mind!

Anytime. I've actually only toyed around with background swapping and simple edits, but I like to do research on this kind of thing.

 

[Dranakar]

This is something i'm currently playign around with
Original stage (it's huge)
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=30022

 

[Xermo]

Nice

 

[Sandfall]

Spoiler

This is something i'm currently playign around with
Original stage (it's huge)
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=30022

Oooh, nice find! I never stumbled across that one when I was looking through the Vault.

Quick question though. How did you go about moving/deleting the lower platforms for the tree? I can't seem to figure a good way to do it in Brawlbox.

 

[red9rd]

the only good stages are casual stages. they get better with the more wacky **** you put in them.

 

[Dranakar]

@ Sandfall : It's been a couple of weeks since i did it. I definatly deleted some a models and the ones which caused bugs when they were deleted, I moved down into the ground using selecting+moving the vertex's (as far as I can remember)

Here's a link to my current version should you want to mess around with it
https://www.mediafire.com/?twk2ntfb16f5olf

@ Xermo Thanks!

I have 2 questions concerning other maps.
1)
I've modified whirl island ( http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=17355 )
to be a lot smaller (i like my 1v1 stages ).
I've also removed a platform and moved the other into the center of the map+animated it (kinda like a reverse greenhill, just less vertical movement)
I'm quite content with the outcome, though I really want to remove the water physics from the map, so that the water is purely aesthetic. Does any of you guys have the know-how? Do i need to port everything over to another map not based on japes? or can it be fixed with a simple rel or something?



2)
I've modified Molegras room ( http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=35814)
to be (suprise) smaller. And i've moved the sand down a bit so you didn't have to do a blind recovery. The stage works, but somehow the textures of molegra+sandwaterfalls is really unhappy and begin changing color rapidly. I don't understand, cause I don't remember doing anything to them. suggestions?



DL link to my version: http://www.mediafire.com/download/ubqfcisy8nc207u/Molegras_room_edit.zip

 

[Rage83]

@ Sandfall : It's been a couple of weeks since i did it. I definatly deleted some a models and the ones which caused bugs when they were deleted, I moved down into the ground using selecting+moving the vertex's (as far as I can remember)

Here's a link to my current version should you want to mess around with it
https://www.mediafire.com/?twk2ntfb16f5olf

@ Xermo Thanks!

I have 2 questions concerning other maps.
1)
I've modified whirl island ( http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=17355 )
to be a lot smaller (i like my 1v1 stages ).
I've also removed a platform and moved the other into the center of the map+animated it (kinda like a reverse greenhill, just less vertical movement)
I'm quite content with the outcome, though I really want to remove the water physics from the map, so that the water is purely aesthetic. Does any of you guys have the know-how? Do i need to port everything over to another map not based on japes? or can it be fixed with a simple rel or something?



2)
I've modified Molegras room ( http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=35814)
to be (suprise) smaller. And i've moved the sand down a bit so you didn't have to do a blind recovery. The stage works, but somehow the textures of molegra+sandwaterfalls is really unhappy and begin changing color rapidly. I don't understand, cause I don't remember doing anything to them. suggestions?



DL link to my version: http://www.mediafire.com/download/ubqfcisy8nc207u/Molegras_room_edit.zip

I've gotcha covered with the Whirl Island edit. These are the two miscdata's that can change water:

Replace them with these edited ones for water to only be visual: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jc8quxz6csxcdkz/MiscData[20]NoSwim

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e9mjaq8eiplqd5e/MiscData[30]NoSwim

 

[Dranakar]

@ Sandfall Thanks so much! Works like a charm!

 

[Sandfall]

@ Sandfall Thanks so much! Works like a charm!

That was actually Rage83

Anyway, as for your Molgera's room edit, try replacing the SCN0 in your version with the one from the original. Brawlbox may have corrupted the lighting.

 

[Sour Supreme]

I discovered this thread about 40 seconds ago and I'm very pleased with what you've done so far, Dranakar. Just in case you didn't get the jist, Competetive Stages just need room for a lot of tech, meaning that long platforms are a nice base. And then floating ones are always nice. (I.E. avoid chain grabs, set up for quick aerials) My friends and I use a custom build when we play Project M that includes Molgera's room. We always end up striking it because it's far too big and someone always ends up camping. So you sir, are the answers to our prayers.

 

[Dranakar]

>_< SORRY! My bad! @ Rage83 , You are a darling! Guess I got overexcited about the stage working ;D Thanks!

@ Sandfall : So i tried replacing the scene data and it didn't work, though I just found out why you do not save in brawl wall. When I saved in brawl wall with whirl island it set all animations to not loop, so who knows what it could've done with molegra? Gonna try to redo the downsizing, this time without brawl wall - I will post back with results!

edit:
@ Sour Supreme : Thanks! When I played with my custom build I ended up doing exactly the same - that was basically why I got into modding

 

[Rage83]

>_< SORRY! My bad! @ Rage83 , You are a darling! Guess I got overexcited about the stage working ;D Thanks!

@ Sandfall : So i tried replacing the scene data and it didn't work, though I just found out why you do not save in brawl wall. When I saved in brawl wall with whirl island it set all animations to not loop, so who knows what it could've done with molegra? Gonna try to redo the downsizing, this time without brawl wall - I will post back with results!

edit:
@ Sour Supreme : Thanks! When I played with my custom build I ended up doing exactly the same - that was basically why I got into modding

Glad you got it working! I was worried that i'd sent you the wrong MiscData[20], but apparently I chose right!(The stage I had taken it from was a melee-water edit of Jungle Japes, and had two copies of MiscData[20](no swim/swim) for some reason) Also, i'm looking forward to your resize of Molgera's Room. I managed to lower down the sand, but didn't dare to resize it for fear of model issues.

 

[Narpas_sword]

how difficult is it to change gammy stage spiking ledges to those like battlefield?

really love this stage, aside from the edges =(
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=12299

 

[Dranakar]

@ Narpas_sword : I¨m not entirely sure what you are asking. If it is the stage collision it should be easily fixable (looks to me like the edges float off the model). If it is the blastzones (the zones where you die, it is really a matter of taste.) It¨s a nice map, but the size bothers me, might be going on my to-do list for resizes I've made a quick edit of the collision, it might be what you're looking for :
https://www.mediafire.com/?ikhqncm9nh1l8ad

@ Rage83 Hehe, It really did help out! My platform animation loop isn't as smooth as i want it to be, but when it is, ill upload if i get permission from Lensho As for Molegras, I see why you'd be weary about the model issues x)

 

[Narpas_sword]

ah, sorry i mustn't have explained it well enough.

I'd like it so that if you hug the wall as you up B.

heres a pic from scouts topic for reference:

 

[Sandfall]

ah, sorry i mustn't have explained it well enough.

I'd like it so that if you hug the wall as you up B.

heres a pic from scouts topic for reference:

This takes like 30 seconds to do.

1. Open up the stage in Brawlbox
2. Go to Miscdata[2] (the collisions), right click and select preview.
3. Click on the wall you want to edit and change the property from "ceiling" to "left wall" (if you're on the left side)
4. Save and you're done!

Here's a tutorial on collisions if you want a better understanding of what you're doing.

 

[Rage83]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0wurtorj5yvwih5/STGFAMICOM.pac

Dranakar's collision fix plus Brawl Plus-styled sides and edges. For future reference, have this: To get Brawl Plus FD ledges on a stage, change the ceilings on the sides to LeftWall(left) and RightWall(right) respectively.

 

[Narpas_sword]

ah awesome, thanks to the both of you. That at least makes ti a better stage, if not competitively viable. =)

couple of changes i can see straight up are:
size (as mentioned)
height of the platforms. (and probably symmetrical)
and changing the platform edges to not be grabbable.

 

[Dranakar]

Hi guys! Quick update, Molegras room is now working (Damn you brawl wall!)

Here's a link to a resized version: http://www.mediafire.com/download/w9p0923p9fub8zl/CUSTOM_2_Molgeras_Room.zip
I trust you know how to rename the rel/stage files ^^

I love feedback and constructive critisism so go ahead and give your five cents!

 

[SmashBroski]

Since this thread seems to be about adjusting stages for a more competitive scene, I was wondering if I could get some thoughts on this Spear Pillar edit.

The empty and no hazards versions have none of the hazards that vBrawl Spear Pillar had though the no hazards version still retains legendary Pokemon in the background.

I exported the 3.0 camera (STPM) file from Pokemon Stadium 2 and imported it here so I'm curious if I got the camera working properly. Secondly, the platforms still move up and down though I was wondering if it would be preferred to have them frozen in place instead.

 

[Narpas_sword]

^ i have the other stage like that, the one thing i would like to see is making it more obvious that you cant go down the bottom. makes for awkward deaths for when i demo PM to players who were into brawl


My question is: How do i go about removing other objects without crashing?

ive imported a base and different platform into a different stage, got all the parts i want, but there are still animated bacground items and platforms i don't use (platforms have no collisions) that i want removed. if i try and remove one, the level fails to load (im assuming its getting a null point with the stuff i've deleted)

so yea, what's the best way to completely remove an object?

 

[luxmivozi]

what about just making stages flat with 3 platform's or stages like mushroom kingdom with destroy-able blocks and 2 holes and 2 movable by player platforms

 

[Rage83]

Since this thread seems to be about adjusting stages for a more competitive scene, I was wondering if I could get some thoughts on this Spear Pillar edit.

The empty and no hazards versions have none of the hazards that vBrawl Spear Pillar had though the no hazards version still retains legendary Pokemon in the background.

I exported the 3.0 camera (STPM) file from Pokemon Stadium 2 and imported it here so I'm curious if I got the camera working properly. Secondly, the platforms still move up and down though I was wondering if it would be preferred to have them frozen in place instead.

As for movement, I would suggest having them move from left to right(and the opposite) but keeping them above the stage at all times. The two platforms shouldn't connect, either.

 

[SmashBroski]

As for movement, I would suggest having them move from left to right(and the opposite) but keeping them above the stage at all times. The two platforms shouldn't connect, either.

I like the suggestion, but I'm still a newbie to stage editing.

How would I modify the platforms to move horizontally instead of vertically? Is that within code or BrawlBox?

 

[Rage83]

That would be in Brawlbox. Right click, and hit preview all models on the ModelData which has the two platforms. Look over to the left side for animations. click on the little line at the bottom of the screen to reveal the bottom tab. Click on an animation, then hit play on the bottom tab. By doing this with each animation, you'll eventually find what moves the platforms. As for the actual animation edit, you can use the x (horizontal) y (vertical) and z (position in 3d) values on the bottom in translation to edit the animation for the platforms, after you've clicked on a bone in the right tab for a platform.

 

[SmashBroski]

That would be in Brawlbox. Right click, and hit preview all models on the ModelData which has the two platforms. Look over to the left side for animations. click on the little line at the bottom of the screen to reveal the bottom tab. Click on an animation, then hit play on the bottom tab. By doing this with each animation, you'll eventually find what moves the platforms. As for the actual animation edit, you can use the x (horizontal) y (vertical) and z (position in 3d) values on the bottom in translation to edit the animation for the platforms, after you've clicked on a bone in the right tab for a platform.

I'm using the current version of BrawlBox and I don't see the animations for the platforms., I've cycled through all the animations and I don't see anything.

 

[Dranakar]

Takes like an hour or so to learn how to move about platforms (did for me atleast).
http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=50132.0
It's kinda trial and error but have a look, generally they have some nice guides at kc-mm forums

Edit: I meant animating platforms (not just moving them around

Edit 2: @ SmashBroski be sure that you have the model of the platform(s) selected when cycling through the animations, else they wont show

 

[SmashBroski]

Takes like an hour or so to learn how to move about platforms (did for me atleast).
http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=50132.0
It's kinda trial and error but have a look, generally they have some nice guides at kc-mm forums

Edit: I meant animating platforms (not just moving them around

Edit 2: @ SmashBroski be sure that you have the model of the platform(s) selected when cycling through the animations, else they wont show

I just looked through all the data within the Tengan.pac and I wasn't able to find Animation Data for the platforms; all I could find for them was Color Animation Data.

I tried adding an animation for them but nothing happened; I tried editing the translation but nothing changed.

 

[Juken]

@ Sandfall : It's been a couple of weeks since i did it. I definatly deleted some a models and the ones which caused bugs when they were deleted, I moved down into the ground using selecting+moving the vertex's (as far as I can remember)

Here's a link to my current version should you want to mess around with it
https://www.mediafire.com/?twk2ntfb16f5olf

@ Xermo Thanks!

I have 2 questions concerning other maps.
1)
I've modified whirl island ( http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=17355 )
to be a lot smaller (i like my 1v1 stages ).
I've also removed a platform and moved the other into the center of the map+animated it (kinda like a reverse greenhill, just less vertical movement)
I'm quite content with the outcome, though I really want to remove the water physics from the map, so that the water is purely aesthetic. Does any of you guys have the know-how? Do i need to port everything over to another map not based on japes? or can it be fixed with a simple rel or something?



2)
I've modified Molegras room ( http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=35814)
to be (suprise) smaller. And i've moved the sand down a bit so you didn't have to do a blind recovery. The stage works, but somehow the textures of molegra+sandwaterfalls is really unhappy and begin changing color rapidly. I don't understand, cause I don't remember doing anything to them. suggestions?



DL link to my version: http://www.mediafire.com/download/ubqfcisy8nc207u/Molegras_room_edit.zip

Is there any progress on that Whirl Island?

I have my own personal build with that stage, and I don't want to get rid of it because I love the environment design, but the layout of the stage with the swimming was so frustrating to fight on, especially with AIs. Your edit sounds perfect. I also use the normal version of the second stage, and I might use that one too.

 

[Rage83]

Is there any progress on that Whirl Island?

I have my own personal build with that stage, and I don't want to get rid of it because I love the environment design, but the layout of the stage with the swimming was so frustrating to fight on, especially with AIs. Your edit sounds perfect. I also use the normal version of the second stage, and I might use that one too.

I already gave Dranakar a fix for the water on Whirl Island. Dunno what happened with the stage after that.

 

[Dranakar]

Sorry i haven't posted yet, been busy with modding my build. I'll post the modded version soon!

Edit: So here's the whirl island edit at it's current state:
https://www.mediafire.com/?pw17o007uv5p7nq

Things on my to-do list for this stage.
I'd like to mess around with the lighting a bit to make it feel more cave like,
make the platform move a little smoother and/or maybe slower
+ fix the spawn point, so the camera isn't weird at the start of the map.

 

[Juken]

Very nice, for some reason the page won't allow me to like the post.

Also, I've got a request for you. Could you try out this stage and perhaps fix the issue that it has with the AI?
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=10195

I noticed that the AI treat the middle platform in it as if it's an edge and keep trying to camp on that middle platform, spamming their recoveries to stay on it if they fall below it, and it kind of ruins a good map when I don't have anyone to play with. It'd be really awesome if you could fix it.

 

[Dranakar]

So, I gave it a try and i'm not experiencing the problem you desribe, so it might have helped:
https://www.mediafire.com/?a8ri9s0b2ars6vd
Do post back with results
btw: I also included a wall-less version, cause you know... walls...

 

[TheLastOneAlive]

Very nice, for some reason the page won't allow me to like the post.

Also, I've got a request for you. Could you try out this stage and perhaps fix the issue that it has with the AI?

I noticed that the AI treat the middle platform in it as if it's an edge and keep trying to camp on that middle platform, spamming their recoveries to stay on it if they fall below it, and it kind of ruins a good map when I don't have anyone to play with. It'd be really awesome if you could fix it.

Do you know if that stage can be used over stages other then Distant Planet? I remember trying to get it to work in the past and was unsuccsessful.

 

[Juken]

Do you know if that stage can be used over stages other then Distant Planet? I remember trying to get it to work in the past and was unsuccsessful.

I have it over a custom stage slot. The .rel in the download would probably work if you renamed it after the .rel file that you want to replace.

My knowledge on maps really isn't that extensive though, but it works for me.

Edit:

So, I gave it a try and i'm not experiencing the problem you desribe, so it might have helped:
https://www.mediafire.com/?a8ri9s0b2ars6vd
Do post back with results
btw: I also included a wall-less version, cause you know... walls...

I really like how you removed the walls! Thanks for that. But on the subject of the AI, they still seem to spam their aerial recoveries to get up to the middle platform for some reason. I mean recoveries like Ike's up-b or fox's or pk thunder, etc. Then sometimes they don't even try to recover from the actual ledge.


Also, on the subject of your whirl island map; I think the way the platform moves is really cool. The zig-zag motion of it gives it a more unique feel than other maps. Perhaps make the rock have the zig-zag motion extented toward the outer part of the stage so that there can be platform saves similar to Randall and the platform on smash-ville?