Main Character Coverage Question

[Nexus| Taka]

i currently main falco, Doc and DK. Looking for possible opinions on roster coverage, this is what I currently have.

Top Tier
Falco - Fox, Falco, Peach
Doc - Jiggs, Marth
DK - Sheik, Falcon, Ice Climbers

Mid Tier
Falco - Ganon
Doc - Pikachu, Samus
DK - Doc, Luigi, Mario

 

[Stride]

Main 1 character. Play other characters all you want as long as you have 1 you focus the overwhelming majority of your effort on and use exclusively in tournament. Splitting your effort means you'll be mediocre with all three characters rather than good with any one of them, amongst other things. Also, DK is awful and Doc is pretty bad, so you really shouldn't be maining them unless you're really attached to them for whatever reason.

Falco arguably has no losing matchups, so if you play Falco then you won't need any other characters for matchup coverage.
Doc doesn't have a better matchup with any character than Falco does.
DK has somewhere in the range of bad to unwinnable matchups against each and every character you listed as wanting to use him for.

 

[Nexus| Taka]

Main 1 character. Play other characters all you want a long as you have 1 you focus the overwhelming majority of your effort on and use exclusively in tournament. Splitting your effort means you'll be mediocre with all three characters rather than good with any one of them, amongst other things. Also, DK is awful and Doc is pretty bad, so you really shouldn't be maining them unless you're really attached to them for whatever reason.

Falco arguably has no losing matchups, so if you play Falco you won't need any other characters for matchup coverage.
Doc doesn't have a better matchup with any character than Falco does.
DK has somewhere in the range of bad to unwinnable matchups against each and every character you listed as wanting to use him for.

Reasoning behind my original list, to kind of give you more detail on why I have 3 mains.

Top Tier
Falco - Fox, Falco, Peach - Falco was my secondary for a large portion of my time, he just recently started to be slightly better then my Doc. I notice that he does exceptionally better in these three match ups.

Doc - Jiggs, Marth - My doc does 200 percent better then my falco in these match ups.

DK - Sheik, Falcon, Ice Climbers - I was having issues with both my mains against these 3 characters, DK has been my low tier for awhile and recently I started to lab him against top tiers and realized that I do better against these characters with DK. DK has crazy strings on falcon and amazing gimp coverage. I still need to lab more against Sheik and Ice climbers but I find that the only way that my falco does better in these match ups is if I camp and I hate camping with a passion.

Mid Tier - All general toss ups
Falco - Ganon
Doc - Pikachu, Samus
DK - Doc, Luigi, Mario

 

[Stride]

Until high levels, counterpicking characters is detrimental; it might improve your results in the short term, but it ultimately leads to you not learning how to play your main properly. You need to learn how to adapt and deal with matchups, because counterpicking characters (especially garbage-tier tier characters like DK) to get around having to learn to play the game is unsustainable.

I'm not saying you have to pick a top tier (though you should), but whichever character you play, having one main and sticking to it is best for you as a player.

Jiggs, Marth - My doc does 200 percent better then my falco in these match ups.

That's your Doc, not Doc in general; they're still losing matchups for Doc. If you learn the matchup with Falco then your Falco will do better.

Mid Tier - All general toss ups
Falco - Ganon
Doc - Pikachu, Samus
DK - Doc, Luigi, Mario

Falco has better matchups with the characters you're using Doc for.
DK loses all of the matchups you're using him for; Luigi the worst of the 3. Since DK unequivocally loses to every remotely decent character, that's a given. Falco wrecks all of those characters.

DK - Sheik, Falcon, Ice Climbers - I was having issues with both my mains against these 3 characters, DK has been my low tier for awhile and recently I started to lab him against top tiers and realized that I do better against these characters with DK. DK has crazy strings on falcon and amazing gimp coverage. I still need to lab more against Sheik and Ice climbers but I find that the only way that my falco does better in these match ups is if I camp and I hate camping with a passion.

Sheik (especially NTSC Sheik), Ice Climbers, and Falcon are three of DK's worst matchups (and pretty easy for the opponent to play without matchup experience; spacie matchups are similarly difficult but it's easier for the opponent to be caught out be matchup inexperience). When talking about low tiers, "worst matchups" generally means "unwinnable matchups", and that holds true for DK. If you're counterpicking a character, then you should not counterpick one that basically auto-loses the matchup; even with the advantage of being gimmicky it's just a terrible idea.

Good luck being aggro with DK in any of those matchups.

 

[Nexus| Taka]

what do you consider to be high level?

Until high levels, counterpicking characters is pointless; it might improve your results in the short term, but it ultimately leads to you not learning how to play your main properly. You need to learn how to adapt and deal with matchups, because counterpicking characters (especially garbage-tier tier characters like DK) to get around having to learn to play the game is unsustainable.

I'm not saying you have to pick a top tier (though you should), but whichever character you play, having one main and sticking to it is best for you as a player.


That's your Doc, not Doc in general; they're still losing matchups for Doc. If you learn the matchup with Falco then your Falco will do better.

Falco has better matchups with the characters you're using Doc for.
DK loses all of the matchups you're using him for; Luigi the morst of the 3. Since DK unequivocally loses to every remotely decent character, that's a given. Falco wrecks all of those characters.


Sheik (especially NTSC Sheik) and Ice Climbers are two of DK's worst matchps, and Falcon isn't far behind. When talking about low tiers, "worst matchups" generally means "unwinnable matchups", and that holds true for DK. If you're counterpicking a character, then you do not counterpick one that basically auto-loses the matchup; even with the advantage of being gimmicky it's just a terrible idea.

Good luck being aggro with DK against Sheik or Ice Climbers.

 

[Stride]

what do you consider to be high level?

I'd say very high; something like top 8 at nationals high. This is assuming a a top tier character, but if you're counterpicking all of your low tier main's bad matchups then you might as well just main a top tier. Also with exceptions for truly awful matchups such as Peach vs Ice Climbers.

Even at that point you have so much room for improvement that it's not really your character holding you back, and at lower levels that just holds even more true. Again: splitting effort between characters is detrimental to your growth as a player.

Having said that, people are different and have different preferences; it's not necessarily bad to play multiple characters when not quite at very high level, and some people benefit from it. However, I strongly hold the opinion that at low to mid levels it's a terrible idea. Just make sure your motivation for playing multiple characters is correct: covering your main's unwinnable or borderline unwinnable matchups is good (presuming they're a good character; bad characters have to deal with playing bad matchups), trying to escape from learning to play a reasonable matchup is not.

 

[Dandy_here]

I play 3 characters in tournament, Marth Sheik and Falcon. I had at one point studied one character at a time and really practice that one character. After results showed, I went to study the second one. Then the third. But DK is reeaall|y bad, Doc isn't the best, and just pick a top tier like you did with falco.

 

[Nexus| Taka]

I play 3 characters in tournament, Marth Sheik and Falcon. I had at one point studied one character at a time and really practice that one character. After results showed, I went to study the second one. Then the third. But DK is reeaall|y bad, Doc isn't the best, and just pick a top tier like you did with falco.

my mains are just characters that I enjoy playing, which in turn cause me to play them better then other characters in my roster. out of all the top tiers the only one that I really enjoy is falco.

Falco jiggs match up is a lot about running and gunning... I don't enjoy that

Falco verses a good marth gets gimped at like 20 and marth has so many tools to wreck him unless you stay away from his grab range and bait responses... don't really like to play like that.

when it comes to the top tiers the only match ups with falco I feel I enjoy is vrses fox, falco and peach. All the other top tiers knock you to the ground and it frustrates me which causes me to play horrible.

my most hated characters to play against are sheik and ice climbers, I really don't have a good solution for them but I tend to like the DK vs sheik match up currently compared to sheik vs falco or doc. I still need to lab with a good Ice Climbers to see how that goes but I have some theories, if it doesn't work then I am probably going to have to just lab out a pocket fox lol.

 

[Dandy_here]

my mains are just characters that I enjoy playing, which in turn cause me to play them better then other characters in my roster. out of all the top tiers the only one that I really enjoy is falco.

Falco jiggs match up is a lot about running and gunning... I don't enjoy that

Falco verses a good marth gets gimped at like 20 and marth has so many tools to wreck him unless you stay away from his grab range and bait responses... don't really like to play like that.

when it comes to the top tiers the only match ups with falco I feel I enjoy is vrses fox, falco and peach. All the other top tiers knock you to the ground and it frustrates me which causes me to play horrible.

my most hated characters to play against are sheik and ice climbers, I really don't have a good solution for them but I tend to like the DK vs sheik match up currently compared to sheik vs falco or doc. I still need to lab with a good Ice Climbers to see how that goes but I have some theories, if it doesn't work then I am probably going to have to just lab out a pocket fox lol.

Suit yourself. As a sheik, that match up is free. Also, learn not to get frustrated against other top tier characters. Sometimes you gotta play grimy.

 

[Nexus| Taka]

Suit yourself. As a sheik, that match up is free. Also, learn not to get frustrated against other top tier characters. Sometimes you gotta play grimy.

My main training partner is a sheik.
As a sheik main how would you approach the DK match up?

 

[Dandy_here]

My main training partner is a sheik.
As a sheik main how would you approach the DK match up?

I just do things that work and then win. It's that easy of a mu.

 

[Nexus| Taka]

I just do things that work and then win. It's that easy of a mu.

Any notable defeats on really good DK's?

 

[Dandy_here]

Any notable defeats on really good DK's?

Not really. There is only a few in wny. But, the character is very free if you just do things like tech chase and bait out an approach.

 

[Stride]

Bad characters have to play far campier than Falco does, because they don't have the tools to challenge good characters in a lot of situations. If you want to avoid camping, then choosing characters that can't approach safely is a bad idea. Falco is one of your best choices if you want to play rushdown.

Falco jiggs match up is a lot about running and gunning... I don't enjoy that

Jigglypuff matchups are relatively slow and campy because Jigglypuff is in them. Doc-Jiggs is 6-8 minutes of pill spamming and having all of Doc's options in neutral beaten by bair, so I don't see how using Doc avoids the problem.

Falco verses a good marth gets gimped at like 20 and marth has so many tools to wreck him unless you stay away from his grab range and bait responses... don't really like to play like that.

You have to stay away from grabs and bait things with any character; that's just what the game is (fighting games in general, even). Donkey Kong and Doctor Mario lose neutral to Marth extremely hard, while also getting punished hard (comboed hard and edgeguarded even harder than Falco). Falco can actually approach, unlike the other 2.

 

[-ACE-]

Counterpicking characters pointless until top level? LOL

There's nothing wrong with dual maining or having a strong secondary at any level of play. The key is identifying your personal strengths and weaknesses as a player and seeing which character(s) cater(s) to you best. Usually approach type characters (spacies) and zoning type characters (Ganon, marth) go together well. Not many people play polar opposite characters and do well (shoutouts to DJN and a few choice others).

Falco's hardest matchups are fox, sheik, marth, peach, puff, and IC's. And by hard it means they're pretty close to even.

Using DK against sheik, falcon and IC's lol. Have fun getting bodied. Keep practicing Falco.

 

[Dolla Pills]

The most interesting thing is that you use DK for Falcon instead of Falco. Why?

 

[Nexus| Taka]

I hate being put in tech chase situations and dk can jungle falcon to 80 easy and has combo kills off grab

 

[Dolla Pills]

I hate being put in tech chase situations and dk can jungle falcon to 80 easy and has combo kills off grab

See in my mind DK doesn't have any good tools in neutral against Falcon and 80% isn't exactly a ton of damage to a Falcon whereas Falco has better neutral and comboing tools, and on the defense side Falco may get tech chased but DK gets comboed hard. I've never seen a Falcon who spent time preparing for the DK matchup but a lot of Falcons worry about the Falco match up.

I think it would be better to try to work on your Falco instead of using DK, but at the end of the day it's your decision so do what makes you happy.

 

[Dandy_here]

I hate being put in tech chase situations and dk can jungle falcon to 80 easy and has combo kills off grab

Falcon puts DK in a body bag, he is easily combed and falcon is the fastest character in the game, so it is gonna be a hard time trying to grab him.

 

[Big Daddy Josh]

Honestly, if you want true character coverage just play Fox. Everyone one of his match-ups are even or in his favor. But in the case you don't want to contribute to the countless Fox mains everywhere. Falco can beat most characters and doesn't have a losing match-up(that i can think of)

 

[vexoskeleton]

Honestly, if you want true character coverage just play Fox. Everyone one of his match-ups are even or in his favor. But in the case you don't want to contribute to the countless Fox mains everywhere. Falco can beat most characters and doesn't have a losing match-up(that i can think of)

I'd have to agree that this is what it all comes down to. In the end, just play fox. seriously though doc and dk are garbage characters if you want to play in any competitive environment and falco has so much to learn if you really like the character you won't get tired of him any time soon.

 

[-ACE-]

Some people just can't play fox at top level, not everyone is physically capable of doing **** like hax does. Some degree of speed is necessary to be a tournament threat, and even more so as the level of play increases. Being a smart fox only gets you so far if good foxes and falcons are running circles around you. Any top tier is fine. Both marth and sheik can handle spacies well enough to win nationals. But obviously it's whatever suits you best.

 

[Nexus| Taka]

yea, I shouldn't have listed falco here, I think I would have gotten better responses that way.