mach tornado beats mario tornado

[Mario is the greatest brawler]

ive been fightin a mach tornado head on with my mario tornado and always lose. i thought the mario nado outprioritized the mach nado? i realized mk can continously press b 2 make his nado stronger. i tried fightin his nado head on with mine when he presses b once and win but when he continously presses b i lose. discuss. also feel free 2 try this out

 

[A2ZOMG]

The Mario Tornado comes out faster, but only the last hit outprioritizes it. Sadly.

Just Up-B out of shield if he spaces it badly. That can break through it. I think U-smash can beat it too.

 

[Mmac]

Doesn't Nair above it beat it?

 

[smashbro29]

I don't think so but now I really want to try

 

[mario brawler]

mach tornado>dair,nair and fair I believe
just bair through it ,I would'nt suggest uair tho
and by the way the tornado always has the same priority,pressing b just makes it float upwards

 

[A2ZOMG]

Doesn't Nair above it beat it?

Yes it does.

The Mach Tornado has ZERO priority directly above it.

 

[Kanzaki]

Yes it does.

The Mach Tornado has ZERO priority directly above it.

The fun part is trying to get above it :]

 

[Matador]

Doesn't Nair above it beat it?

Everything from above outprioritizes it. Below, Usmash and Dair are the only attacks with chances of outprioritizing it. Up angled shields prevent shield poking.

Gratz on Smash Lord there Mmac

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Mario Tornado out prioritizes the Mach Tornado...only when you hit with your hands...the only reason Mach Tornado is hitting you is due to the fact that he's traveling much faster towards you

 

[Varinox]

Mario Tornado out prioritizes the Mach Tornado...only when you hit with your hands...the only reason Mach Tornado is hitting you is due to the fact that he's traveling much faster towards you

so would it only outprioritize mach tornado on the final thrust of the mario tornado?

 

[mario brawler]

no just mario's hands in general(through the whole attack marios hands are spinning,the tip of his hands is where most of the prority comes from I guess) it's just that mach tornado is traveling faster than you,thus it hit's you before you can even release a dair,I did'nt know that the hands could outprioritize though

 

[Mario is the greatest brawler]

so his hands r where the priority comes from? interestin, but difficult 2 beat mach nado since he always comes 2 u with it. and btw mario brawler i thought the mach nado had more priority when continously pressed bcus it goes through bowsers fire when continously pressed only

 

[mario brawler]

I just did some testing it goes through continously pressed or not
however pressing b makes the move last longer
not pressing b=4 seconds
pressed b=7 seconds
all thats happening is that MK stops doin his tornado and he gets burned(if he does'nt move the tornado while fire is hitting it)
however if MK DI's his tornado towards bowser(tapped or not) it will eat right through(considering he does'nt stop mid travel)

 

[Mario is the greatest brawler]

I just did some testing it goes through continously pressed or not
however pressing b makes the move last longer
not pressing b=4 seconds
pressed b=7 seconds
all thats happening is that MK stops doin his tornado and he gets burned(if he does'nt move the tornado while fire is hitting it)
however if MK DI's his tornado towards bowser(tapped or not) it will eat right through(considering he does'nt stop mid travel)

his tornado is cheap aint it?

 

[mario brawler]

yea,it's blindinlgy fast and hard to DI out of -__-

 

[Mario is the greatest brawler]

yea,it's blindinlgy fast and hard to DI out of -__-

i think marios up b beats it but im not sure. i will have 2 test it

 

[Arigatex]

sure priority is on the hands remember the middle finger has the greatest priority of all, but the index does more dmg lol

 

[The Master of Mario]

Mario's moves only out prioritize at the fists and feet if the arms/head/chest gets in range of the tornado then mario can get hit. Also both spin moves don't have hit boxes at all times Mario's fist are impervious to the tornado which makes it easy to attack meta with it. If the Torando is slightly off the ground the D-Smash out prioritizes it at the feet.

 

[infomon]

Mario FLUDD beats mach tornado .... but only when tornado is on the ground.

Actually this is worse for Mario because it makes MK instantly alert and ready to go, on the ground, while Mario uselessly wastes his water. FLUDD is better against an airborne tornado, where it lets the tornado spin idly while pushing MK off-stage and useless.

......... just sayin'.

 

[mario brawler]

does'nt the 'nado just outprioritize the water ?__?
im pretty sure it does...

 

[infomon]

Read what I said, and/or test it out yourself. It depends if the tornado is on the ground, or in the air.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

yeah you can push back the tornado....but I think I've found a system for beating MKs...if it gets good results at my next tournament I'll let you all know

 

[Famous]

Fludd isn't to useful on the tornado in the air...Up B out of the shield works though since Mario has a frame of invincibility

 

[-Sensei-]

What I usually do with the tornado is FLUDD, and aim the water up. The result is it pushes Metaknight high into the air and if there are no platforms, he descends into a free hit. If you do this near the edge, you can actually FLUDD him up into a cape, but the timing is difficult.

 

[Famous]

It's very difficult. You can actually still get hit even when you do cape it..

 

[-Sensei-]

It's very difficult. You can actually still get hit even when you do cape it..

You can't get hit if you FLUDD him high into the air because the tornado will already be finished and he will just fall.

 

[Mush head]

hmmm... Well, if the priority fails, just do an angled up sheild until he runs out of hangtime or just hit him from above with a Nair or Dair. I'm really going to test these things out with Mario on Meta Knight. If these tips work, then it should even out my chances against those hardcore MK mainers.

 

[BoTastic!]

Nado can also be caped but it takes timing.

 

[Judge Judy]

I'm pretty sure that the top of the Whorenado has like no priority, and the eye has ALOT. Mario's tornado has pretty good priority above it but nothing below it. I have been knocked out of Mario's tornado more times than I can count so I'm not surprised you got knocked out of it. The tornado has been a lot more useful to me as a drill than anything else.

 

[infomon]

Careful.... priority is a funny word

MK's tornado doesn't even have a hitbox at the top. So you can hit him from the top with anything. The hitbox near the bottom extends past the orange parts; you can see faint red and blue whisps that swirl around the orange core. I think those are hitbox, although they might just describe a wind effect that pushes you into whatever the hitbox is. Iunno.

 

[Matador]

I think I've found a system for beating MKs...if it gets good results at my next tournament I'll let you all know

O_O

10chars

 

[Judge Judy]

Careful.... priority is a funny word

MK's tornado doesn't even have a hitbox at the top. So you can hit him from the top with anything. The hitbox near the bottom extends past the orange parts; you can see faint red and blue whisps that swirl around the orange core. I think those are hitbox, although they might just describe a wind effect that pushes you into whatever the hitbox is. Iunno.

Ok, so is there any difference in priority with his tornado or is it all the same?

 

[infomon]

Ok, so is there any difference in priority with his tornado or is it all the same?

AFAIK nobody has it figured out 100%. This thread: [link] has relevant discussion, particular around pages 7 and 8, but I'm pretty sure a bunch of that is wrong, and the whole thread can be misleading.

My falliable understanding of the tornado is as follows.

The perception of priority is largely based on the interactions of hitboxes and hurtboxes. The MK deep inside the tornado is a hurtbox, and his hurtbox extends as tall as his swords which are at the top middle of the tornado. The hitbox is deceptive; it is wider than expected at the bottom of the tornado, and barely exists at the top (you can get right into the top orange corners without being hurt). You get hurt by the tornado if you let your hurtbox come into contact with its hitbox. If you're able to land a hitbox onto the MK hurtbox in his tornado, he gets hurt and the 'nado stops. So this is easier done from the top of the 'nado where he's exposed.

Priority mechanisms in general work different for grounded attacks than for aerial attacks. The tornado shows this by working differently in each case. When the tornado is on the ground, hitting its hitbox with a strong attack can cause MK to abort the tornado, even without getting hurt. I think an attack needs to deal 10% or more than the tornado for this to happen, but I'm not sure. But note that the longer the tornado is out, the more damage it would do with each hit, so an attack has to be slightly stronger to interrupt the tornado the longer it's been out. In the air, the tornado cannot be interrupted unless you actually hit the MK inside the tornado. (This works on the ground too.)

Since the tornado is a rapidly multi-hitting attack, it doesn't easily lose "clash wars" against opponent attacks. Consider G&W's turtle vs. a MK tornado. Once the turtle hits the tornado's hitbox, both attacks clash. Once this happens, both G&W and MK are made invincible to that hit of each attack (they are both multi-hit attacks). So if the turtle wants to knock MK out of the tornado, it has to wait until its next hit becomes active. (I think a turtle hits a total of 5 or 6 times total?) However, the tornado hits so rapidly, that it has many more chances to hurt G&W before the turtle can get close to MK's body. And also there is hitlag for every hit, so MK can SDI away from the turtle as he pleases. So even though the turtle is large enough to hit MK out of the tornado, it's difficult for the turtle to win because the tornado hits so quickly.

In the thread I linked, Niko_K theorizes ways that the tornado has more priority as its held longer. *shrug* There's room for tornado physics to be explained, so the above is just my own understanding.

Hope that helps!!! Sorry for the wall of text.... but yeah... priority is complicated o_O

 

[Judge Judy]

Ok, I get i but how would things like the FLUDD and the Cape work in terms of priority?

 

[infomon]

If the tornado's on the ground, then FLUDD water will hit the tornado hitbox and instantly interrupt the tornado; MK will come to a quick stop. In the air, this can't happen, so MK will keep spinning the tornado and FLUDD can be used to push the tornado. (Also when MK leaves the tornado he falls helplessly, so FLUDD can be especially useful here.)

I don't know how the cape works at all o_O but it shouldn't be hard to test.

 

[Judge Judy]

If the tornado's on the ground, then FLUDD water will hit the tornado hitbox and instantly interrupt the tornado; MK will come to a quick stop. In the air, this can't happen, so MK will keep spinning the tornado and FLUDD can be used to push the tornado. (Also when MK leaves the tornado he falls helplessly, so FLUDD can be especially useful here.)

I don't know how the cape works at all o_O but it shouldn't be hard to test.

Yah, but the FLUDD clearly has priority of some kind since it can cancel out projectiles. What would define the FLUDD's priority? Can you really give number values to priority?

 

[infomon]

No, you can't. I mean, some (primarily ground-based) hitbox interactions are dependent on the damage % that each attack would cause if it were to land. That's as close to a numeric priority value as you can find in the game. But hitbox vs. hurtbox ratio, rapidity of multi-hitting attacks, startup lag, super-armor frames, etc. are all related to the perception of priority, so there's no solid numeric way to rank things.

FLUDD water is composed of many hitboxes, so although they don't do any damage, it does get itself involved in priority situations, ie. to determine which attacks it destroys (like fire) and which it doesn't.

Also I was wrong before when I said that weak attacks would not interrupt MK's grounded tornado without hitting him. Almost any attack (jabs, for example (except MK's, oddly enough.. his jabs work strange lol)) will cause a grounded tornado to come to a quick stop. The only advantage to having a strong attack is that it's less likely to be interrupted as well when the two come into contact.