Lvl 6 fox...

[GangsterPuff]

Here's something 3.5 didn't fix, the CPUs, I have trouble beating a level 6 fox. And yes, I'm not a very good player, and you might tell me to just practice and get better at the game, but I don't think this is the case here. In fact, I was having no trouble at all beating lvl9 fox and other CPUs, even with random characters. Here's the problem: this fox's tech skill is off the chart, a CPU shouldn't be able to constantly wave shine, and Shine + SHFFL, but that's what it did, and another thing that ticks me off is that this fox spams U-smashes, it's not even unpredictable, he just wavedashing back and then run and U-smash, the funny thing is I can't even punish it, and when I try to wavedashing back, or just spot dodge it, he just goes for another and another until you are hit off screen. Then he just taunts you, it's so ****ing annoying. And hell, it's not even fun playing against this piece of ****, cause he doesn't even tech, he just get up attacks all day, and he never DIs, but his wave shining is just so annoying and diffucult to punish! Does anyone else have the same problem as me? Or am I just not good enough? I just want to boot up the game and have fun, but these CPUs just ruins the day for me every time. I really hope PM can patch this quickly, oh yeah and, no more taunting for CPUs.

 

[Paradoxium]

Actually I think these were the kind of results the pmdt were aiming for, all you did was convince me that the Fox ai was legit.

 

[GangsterPuff]

Actually I think these were the kind of results the pmdt were aiming for, all you did was convince me that the Fox ai was legit.

Legit? So basically spamming lasers at the edge of the screen, and then run up and U- smash hence and repeat is what the PMBR is aiming for? This fox doesn't even use Aerials nor does it edgeguard. And shouldn't the lvl.9s take this role instead of lvl6?

 

[Empyrean]

It will occasionally shine bair or nairplane you across the stage. I believe it's an accurate depiction of a widely popular fox playstyle. Only thing inhuman they do (along with all the lvl 9 cpus) is their godlike powershielding.

 

[GangsterPuff]

It will occasionally shine bair or nairplane you across the stage. I believe it's an accurate depiction of a widely popular fox playstyle. Only thing inhuman they do (along with all the lvl 9 cpus) is their godlike powershielding.

Those are the shine + SHFFLs I'm talking about, and they have almost no air game. They don't even juggle you, and they just constantly spam shines even when the opponent isn't close. Am I the only one who's dissatisfied with the fact that I'm getting my ass kicked by a lvl6 CPU?

 

[Narpas_sword]

if you cant beat him, turn the level down...

 

[GangsterPuff]

if you cant beat him, turn the level down...

I didn't say I couldn't beat it, in fact, I have less trouble beating lvl 9 CPUs.

 

[KingClubber]

...

Come back when 4.0 is released, but then i will have training wheels on them for anyone having a hard time. til then i am humbly not sorry you have been losing to my poor example of a cpu version of m2k and kels. PS. It will only get harder from here. L2P.

 

[Narpas_sword]

I didn't say I couldn't beat it, in fact, I have less trouble beating lvl 9 CPUs.

Am I the only one who's dissatisfied with the fact that I'm getting my *** kicked by a lvl6 CPU?

Oh.

so, you get your ass kicked, but win?


KingClubber is doing a fantastic job, solo.

 

[GangsterPuff]

Come back when 4.0 is released, but then i will have training wheels on on them for anyone having a hard time. til then i am humbly not sorry you have been losing to my poor example of a cpu version of m2k and kels. PS. It will only get harder from here. L2P.

Well, if you put it like that, it seems you all think I'm a bad player who couldn't acpect any changes, but I have no problem beating these ais with my main, but I want to have the statisfaction to beat them with any character I uses. All I'm saying is that these CPUs are pretty predictable, but hard o to punish with characters that I'm not used to playing. And really all the thing that pisses me of is the fact that these guys taunts every time when they get a kill. And I hope that you are being sarcastic, cause I don't want give more work to a "nice" person like you.

 

[wiiztec]

Oh.

so, you get your *** kicked, but win?


KingClubber is doing a fantastic job, solo.

He didn't type the 6 upside down that's a 9

 

[KingClubber]

....

Warning: I'm very slow on Jokes and Sarcasm, and I take things Overly Serious. its in mah sig

I get the same stories each update, cpu's are bad please fix. cpu's are getting better, good job. AI is not very smart. AI are beating me. You're no different, if you do not like how the cpu's are; feel free to get started on working on them yourself.

KingClubber isn't getting paid, KingClubber is only enjoying working on Cpu's. But working on 1 single issue could take hours, hours he could be using to play MapleStory. Would you rather he play MapleStory?

cause I don't want give more work to a "nice" person like you.

oh, please do. i would enjoy ignoring this thread, when others are having more trying issues.

 

[kaizo13]

ummm wow lol

just gonna say, these Ai aren't doing anything that a human player couldn't do. The current Ai actually helps you improve...fox spamming lasers? here's your chance to learn how to beat that tactic. Fox spamming up-smash? awesome, now you can practice how to bait it out and punish it.

if anything these Ai's are a blessing
amazing work @ KingClubber

 

[ChaosQualm]

The two basic ways to punish his usmash spamming:

1. Block and shield grab it. This is especially good vs Fox because almost every character gets great followups after up throw on him since he's such a fastfaller.
2. Wave dash back once or twice really fast at a range where you expect he's about to do it. Then whiff punish it with fsmash.

There's a lot of other ways to do it, some character specific but there you go. The Fox AI isn't hard at all once you start doing this.

Also the AI between level 6 and 9 for Fox seems almost identical.

 

[Leafeon]

Legit? So basically spamming lasers at the edge of the screen, and then run up and U- smash hence and repeat is what the PMBR is aiming for? This fox doesn't even use Aerials nor does it edgeguard. And shouldn't the lvl.9s take this role instead of lvl6?

If you know what it's going to do, how are you having trouble?

 

[Narpas_sword]

He didn't type the 6 upside down that's a 9

this is correct.

not sure what you're getting at...

 

[wiiztec]

this is correct.

not sure what you're getting at...

I was pointing out how you were ignoring the fact that he was saying level 6 was better than level 9, you even quoted his two posts and implied they were contradictory

 

[Narpas_sword]

I was pointing out how you were ignoring the fact that he was saying level 6 was better than level 9, you even quoted his two posts and implied they were contradictory

oh i see, i didn't realise my reply became ambiguous.

I had said that he should turn the level down if he has trouble beating lv6.
he said that "he didn't say he couldn't beat it"
to which i pointed out that he said that it (it being a lv6) was kicking his ass.

what i was replying to had nothing to do with 6 being harder than 9.

 

[ChaosQualm]

I don't see how level 6 Fox is harder than level 9. They seem almost identical to me. At most maybe the level 9 techs a bit more. Both are easy to beat once you know how.

 

[KingClubber]

Also the AI between level 6 and 9 for Fox seems almost identical.

lvl 4-9 are identical with fox n falco. oh and a mistake of mine... luigi (a early build that got in by mistake) (enjoy?)

 

[ChaosQualm]

That makes sense. Because I really couldn't find any major differences lol. So yeah for Fox GangsterPuff:

1. Get better at edge guarding. Like most CPUs Fox is easy to gimp.
2. Punish those constant up smashes. In fact I find it a lot of fun to find better and better punishes on them. I have a punish with Wario that can do 60+ damage if not outright kill him if he hits my shield with up Smash too close at low percents.
3. If you are being overwhelmed by shine pressure just back off for a second and regroup. Don't worry, he won't chase you, he'll just go back to laser camping. There are ways to deal with shine pressure but in this case you don't even need to.

Point 3 reminds me. Even if he breaks your shield with shines he doesn't punish you that hard afterwards. Doesn't charge smashes even if you were at kill percent, he'll often just do a weak hit nair or downsmash.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

This is to funny

 

[TopTierPichu]

if they only spam one move wouldn't that make them easier to beat? just my observation, like I notice that the falco CPU occasionally shines forever and some times i let it beat me, however I know that if I complain and cant beat such a mundane strategy I have no hope beating a real person so keep that in mind when you complain

 

[Kered13]

The weird thing is that they have insane tech skills at all levels. It's totally awesome that the level 9 CPU can play like that, but should a level 3 CPU match look like this (I can't post links: youtube /watch?v=oZGGr99npQQ)? I can understand how it could frustrate a new player. I think it would be a good idea to tone down the tech skill for the lower level CPUs.

 

[ChaosQualm]

That's a fair point but tech skill isn't everything. It's safe to say the new Fox AI is much more technical than 99.999% of players that will ever play Project M and yet it can be easily beaten once you figure it out. I don't consider myself very good at PM yet at all (only just got into it seriously for the the first time) and I've beaten it with around 10 different characters.

 

[Kered13]

That's a fair point but tech skill isn't everything. It's safe to say the new Fox AI is much more technical than 99.999% of players that will ever play Project M and yet it can be easily beaten once you figure it out. I don't consider myself very good at PM yet at all (only just got into it seriously for the the first time) and I've beaten it with around 10 different characters.

But isn't the goal to have an AI that plays as much like a human as possible? I can also beat the level 9 spacey AIs, but I don't think the level 3 AI should have the tech skill of a god, even if it's stupid in other areas. It would only teach new players to punish those stupid mistakes while never attempting anything that can be beaten by god-level tech skill. Like how the Melee CPU "teaches" you to spam smash attacks but never use projectiles.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

It doesn't go off stage
Doesn't do double shines or shine grabs
Does not up throw up air
Chill

 

[GangsterPuff]

This thread is still on going? I've played the game again today, and I was able to take it out with a ganon, but I can only beat it half of the time in a fox ditto, I think that last night I got so pissed off is because a lvl.6 CPU is teching better than me. The problem is that I use random most of the time, and only occasionally pull out my main. So I can't get use to every character play.

Also on a side note, lvl 6 fox techs way more than lvl9 fox, which is a pushover.

 

[kaizo13]

This thread is still on going? I've played the game again today, and I was able to take it out with a ganon, but I can only beat it half of the time in a fox ditto, I think that last night I got so pissed off is because a lvl.6 CPU is teching better than me. The problem is that I use random most of the time, and only occasionally pull out my main. So I can't get use to every character play.

Also on a side note, lvl 6 fox techs way more than lvl9 fox, which is a pushover.

it's all in your head bro, the Dev who made the Ai already said Lvl 4-9 Fox is identical. just keep practicing.

 

[GangsterPuff]

it's all in your head bro, the Dev who made the Ai already said Lvl 4-9 Fox is identical. just keep practicing.

No, I'm pretty sure the lvl 9 did not wave shine once.

 

[swiftwinter]

Lol all the Fox CPU does is spam tech skill and press buttons 24/7. I beat him every time by running up shield grab everything he does and he falls for it 95% of the time. He's far from smart, let alone tough to beat.

 

[Narpas_sword]

No, I'm pretty sure the lvl 9 did not wave shine once.

good work, your anecdotal evidence and one time trial is definitely holds more weight that the words of the guy who programmed the AI

 

[KingClubber]