Lucas MU

[Orion Prime]

So I looked through all the threads and did not notice this specific matchup topic, which is proving to be tough for me. I have a bad time escaping from Lucas' aerial combos, and am just looking for some general advice on the MU. Any insights appreciated!

Thx

 

[Litt]

Yeah its not that fun of a mu imo, I have 2 answers to the neutral question, one is stay in morphball rolling back and forward, and just shield the ice when he throws them, then back into ball, occationally Zair to make him approach you, then punish attempts with ice up smash OoS or up b OoS, option 2, camp the ledge and hylian low rider for 8 minutes, with occcationally fire fairing him into up b fade back to the ledge or fast fall fire fair into jab pressure, then back to the ledge, did that to a lucas at zenith who 4 stocked me game 1, and ended up winning the set, he jumped off the stage game 3 when there was 2 minutes left and I was up 2 stocks :/

 

[Orion Prime]

Ha that's a painful yet intriguing strategy, I actually really want to try that...Gonna have to tighten up on my edge missile skills though.

I suppose better DI out of the aerials is always an option, I definitely need work there as well.

Thanks for the ideas Barbie, wouldn't have thought of that one.

 

[Litt]

Ha that's a painful yet intriguing strategy, I actually really want to try that...Gonna have to tighten up on my edge missile skills though.

I suppose better DI out of the aerials is always an option, I definitely need work there as well.

Thanks for the ideas Barbie, wouldn't have thought of that one.

Its not fun to play like that, I got pissed off after the 4 stock and people **** talking behind me... its something I dont normally resort to, but when I do it, there are very few players who can win lmao, I prefer giving them the same respect them give me and making it a fair match where we both have fun.

 

[Eisen]

Do everything you possibly can to keep him at missile distance (and far enough away to where he can't PKF/approach), and then if you're forced to get near him/decide to be aggressive combo him until he dies. Do NOT drop your combos and use Lucas' great combo weight to your advantage. Plasma Upsmash > upsmash > upsmash seems to work on general fastfallers, Lucas included. Don't know how many of them know how to get out of it, but even then Samus has decent followups on Lucas.

Also, Zair EATS PKF. Literally, PKF is cancelled by zair. Abuse that.

Generally the stuff Barbie said is pretty solid too. In addition, as a former Lucas main, I can tell you that he has decent enough trouble with missiles if you spam them efficiently. Take into account though that currently, Lucas is OP; he's getting nerfed.

Oh also, his recovery is SO easy to intercept. Just throw out an offstage nair and Lucas dies lmao.

 

[Litt]

Do everything you possibly can to keep him at missile distance (and far enough away to where he can't PKF/approach), and then if you're forced to get near him/decide to be aggressive combo him until he dies. Do NOT drop your combos and use Lucas' great combo weight to your advantage. Plasma Upsmash > upsmash > upsmash seems to work on general fastfallers, Lucas included. Don't know how many of them know how to get out of it, but even then Samus has decent followups on Lucas.

Also, Zair EATS PKF. Literally, PKF is cancelled by zair. Abuse that.

Generally the stuff Barbie said is pretty solid too. In addition, as a former Lucas main, I can tell you that he has decent enough trouble with missiles if you spam them efficiently. Take into account though that currently, Lucas is OP; he's getting nerfed.

Oh also, his recovery is SO easy to intercept. Just throw out an offstage nair and Lucas dies lmao.

Just a few things to mention about your post, I personally find that morphball is necessary in this MU for neutral game because you can powershield the PKF much easier when in morph ball, and you can do it while retreating backwards, or opt for a dtilt, jab, or crawl dash attack, personally i just camp the ledge for the majority of the match when lukas super charges his smashes (completely bs addition to this character btw), and as for ledge guarding, dont even bother with the run off nair, good lukas can just avoid it with the airdodge into grapple, which puts you in a worse position. Just run off lay a bomb so it barely falls off the ledge, then go down with a rising nair, that actually covers all options. As for the plasma up smash into up smash into up smash... that does not work against anyone with remotely good DI, and it does not work at all against any player that can SDI efficiently, you will get punished for just doing it once. Another thing to add... lukas is not a fast faller... by any means lolololololol... fast faller... falcon... fox... falco... not lukas lol yes zair is amazing in any match up but you need to make the use of it non obvious like running up, air dodging backwards into a zair works, or jump from ledge into airdodge zair, ect... and yes lukas is getting nerfed but so is everyone else

 

[Une]

Just a few things to mention about your post, I personally find that morphball is necessary in this MU for neutral game because you can powershield the PKF much easier when in morph ball, and you can do it while retreating backwards, or opt for a dtilt, jab, or crawl dash attack, personally i just camp the ledge for the majority of the match when lukas super charges his smashes (completely bs addition to this character btw), and as for ledge guarding, dont even bother with the run off nair, good lukas can just avoid it with the airdodge into grapple, which puts you in a worse position. Just run off lay a bomb so it barely falls off the ledge, then go down with a rising nair, that actually covers all options. As for the plasma up smash into up smash into up smash... that does not work against anyone with remotely good DI, and it does not work at all against any player that can SDI efficiently, you will get punished for just doing it once. Another thing to add... lukas is not a fast faller... by any means lolololololol... fast faller... falcon... fox... falco... not lukas lol yes zair is amazing in any match up but you need to make the use of it non obvious like running up, air dodging backwards into a zair works, or jump from ledge into airdodge zair, ect... and yes lukas is getting nerfed but so is everyone else

Yeah too bad you're completely wrong. Lucas is a semi-fastfaller

-This is an ordered list of fastest to slowest falling speeds. Ratings assume maximum and don't factor in acceleration rates.

Fast-fallers:
1) Wolf [3.2]
2) Falco [3.1]
3) C. Falcon [2.9]
4) Fox [2.8]

Semi-fast-fallers:
5) Diddy [2.55]
6) MK [2.45]
7-8) DK/Roy [2.4]
9) Lucas [2.3]
10) DDD [2.25]

Semi-floaties:
11) Marth [2.2]
12-14) Link/Sheik/Toon Link [2.13]
15) Snake [2.12]
16-17) Ike/ZSS [2.05]
18-19) Ganon/Lucario [2.0]
20) Yoshi [1.92]
21-25) Bowser/Olimar/Pikachu/Pit/Sonic [1.9]

Floaties:
26) Wario [1.85]
27) Ness [1.83]
28-32) Charizard/G&W/Ivysaur/Mario/Squirtle [1.7]
33) ROB [1.65]
34-36) ICs/Kirby/Luigi [1.6]
37-38) Mewtwo/Peach [1.5]
39-40) Samus/Zelda [1.4]
41) Jigglypuff [1.3]

 

[pooch182]

Seems to me like he's right. Fast-faller =/= Semi Fast-faller. There's a reason we differentiate these fall speeds into categories like this. The combo games aren't the same at all, like chaining UpSmashes into themselves basically can't be done consistently on Lucas.

As for how to play this MU, there are a few things I like to do a lot. Firstly, I like to treat this MU similar to Falco in how I move. WD OoS is phenomenal, and honestly, most Lucas players really start to get aggressive once you go into your shield. You've got fantastic OoS options as Samus, and it isn't hard to get a free UpB OoS on any impatient Lucas player. As for dealing with PKF, Zair is probably the best option. You don't really want to be in the mid-range where Lucas can feel safe wavebouncing/throwing PKF at you constantly. If you do land a zair, you can use it to push Lucas into a corner, which let's you establish firm stage control. Missiles and missiles and missiles and missiles. . . you get the idea. Establish a safe position in terms of your range, and then suffocate.

If you're dumb like me, you like to spot-dodge grabs and then punish. DON'T EVEN TRY THIS AGAINST LUCAS, EVER. The number of active frames on rope snake is absurd, and you're going to get grabbed, which leads to a pretty bad time.

When I'm edge-guarding a Lucas, I like to throw out a lot of homing missiles, because it forces them to usually recover low. At that point, you've got the whole bomb info from Barbie, so you get the idea. I don't necessarily bomb (because I haven't drilled it into my thick skull, yet), but bombing and then positioning yourself for a free uptilt that reaches just below ledge sounds like an amazing option to me. Sure, the rising nair can cover options, but going that deep against Lucas can lead to tether-cancel PSI magnet cheese. Nobody likes tether-cancel PSI magnet cheese.

 

[Samuch]

Lucas' dair spike gives me trouble. Watch out for it. I get hit out of the up-B all the time.

Like everyone else said, zair works really well. Most Lucas' I've seen are super aggressive, so try to take that away with good spacing(zair, ftilts, missiles, wavedashing). His PK thunder might interupt recovery/trying to get back on stage in general, but they aren't the most difficult things to dodge, so it's not the end of the world.

Lucas' PKF is definitely not fun either. You just need to shield or crawl. Much of the time the lucas will use the PKF as an approach thing so you might get lucky to crawl under the PK and dtilt to punish the approach.

I'm just repeating what everyone else is saying, so just follow what they said.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Yeah too bad you're completely wrong. Lucas is a semi-fastfaller

That had to be one of the worst counter arguments in history.

Seriously.

 

[Une]

That had to be one of the worst counter arguments in history.

Seriously.

what? I wasn't arguing about/against anything. He said Lucas is Nnnooooo way a fastfaller at all or some **** and I told him he's wrong. That's all I was responding to.

 

[Narpas_sword]

exactly.

you told him he was wrong. then proved he was right.

It was. in a word. "Hilarious."

 

[Une]

uh, what? are you blind? Lucas is a semi-fastfaller.

How the **** did I prove him right?

Another thing to add... lukas is not a fast faller... by any means lolololololol... fast faller... falcon... fox... falco... not lukas lol

When someone says something like "So-and-so is no ______ by any means" they don't mean "well they AREN'T quite "that." No, they mean that thing is no where NEAR _____.

For instance, take someone that is a massive Morrowind fanboy and absolutely HATES Skyrim. "Another thing to add... Skyrim is not exactly the best game... by any means lolololololol"

The Morrowind fanboy isn't saying that well yeah, Skyrim ISN'T the best game, but it's damn close! No, they're saying "Skyrim is a piece of **** and is complete casual watered-down garbage that sheeple like lololololol "

So this guy isn't saying that Lucas isn't just not a fastfaller but close to one. He's saying that Lucas is like, the opposite of a fastfaller. And that is not true at all. Got it? Good. Well, even if you don't I don't feel like arguing about stupid garbage that people are wrong about. I've argued with people that said Fox jumped higher then Falco in Melee. I've argued with people that think PM Mewtwo's TELEPORT can just be reacted to and punished. Just the other day I sorta argued with someone that said most counters in Smash are based off of the attack thrown at them instead of being static. Surprise surprise! They were wrong! I'm not arguing any more about this.

 

[Litt]

Yeah too bad you're completely wrong. Lucas is a semi-fastfaller

Hey dib****... I dont know who you think you are... but first and foremost the arrogant overly disliked samus (That is always right) is this guy... not some schmuck that needs to differentiate between almost fast faller and fast faller. For the purposes of set combos and discussion... he is not a ****ing fast faller, so shut your goddam mouth when you are wrong and dont argue semantics, because semantics wont help your scrub ass when you are playing competent players who can.... ACTUALLY DI. UP smash does not combo into up smash and I would 4 stock you, in any smash game so dont give me any attitude. Think about what you are talking about and when you wanna go into semantics, data, and termonology, I will have you schooled on every front, so you can give your Morrowwind, and skyrim references all you like, they wont help you on smash boards bud, and the only reason you arent arguing about "garbage that people are wrong about" is because you are the one who is wrong here.

 

[Chevy]

Hey dib****... I dont know who you think you are... but first and foremost the arrogant overly disliked samus (That is always right) is this guy... not some schmuck that needs to differentiate between almost fast faller and fast faller. For the purposes of set combos and discussion... he is not a ****ing fast faller, so shut your goddam mouth when you are wrong and dont argue semantics, because semantics wont help your scrub *** when you are playing competent players who can.... ACTUALLY DI. UP smash does not combo into up smash and I would 4 stock you, in any smash game so dont give me any attitude. Think about what you are talking about and when you wanna go into semantics, data, and termonology, I will have you schooled on every front, so you can give your Morrowwind, and skyrim references all you like, they wont help you on smash boards bud, and the only reason you arent arguing about "garbage that people are wrong about" is because you are the one who is wrong here.

* Dip****

 

[Litt]

* Dip****

nah, this kid is so stupid and out of line I couldnt even use the proper insult, he wouldn't have understood

 

[pooch182]

Calibrated for dyslexia . . . I like it.