Lucas' Grapples (Misc. Questions) *Help*

[Shibby]

Hello fellow Lucas players! I'm fairly new to the smash scene. I never played melee but I did play 64 Smash every now and then a while back. With about 100 hours of time put into Brawl I feel I'm better than average at the moment. So I started the game using Kirby, Ike, and a little of Toon Link but now, for few weeks I've switched to Lucas and devoted my play time to him.

Questions:

1.)

Say I grapple someone (@ lower percentage), what should I do with them? Hit them two or three times then "up toss" / "down toss" into a uncharged up-smash?

This is assuming I'm closer to the middle of the stage.

2.)

I assume if I am closer to the end of the stage (enemy still at lower percentage), punch two or three times and toss off the stage and attempt to edge-guard with PK-Thunder? (I've gotten pretty good at juggling CPU's / Human players around)


3.)

Lets say I grapple someone at a higher percentage. Do I hit them four or five times then "down toss"? (Assuming "up toss" would throw them too high for a Up-Smash)


4.)

Anyone have advice for dash-grapples? (dash then slide grapple kind of...) The snake is really hit or miss, and if I miss I'm going to get punished...

Also the timing of this because the snake does have a reach.

5.)

I'm working on shield grapples as well. Any advice for this is welcome too!






If any of you guys / girls have advice, videos or answers to these questions please post them or PM me. I'm trying to be the best Lucas player I can be!


Thanks so much for your time!

-Shibby

 

[Tyr_03]

I would suggest at low percentages to do either down throw to up tilt or down throw to PK Thunder depending on the character. Down throw to Uair works sometimes too. I would NOT suggest using an upsmash after a throw because someone can easily DI out of it. Probably the most lethal Lucas throw combo is Down throw to PK Thunder, hit the enemy with the side of the head, followed by PKT2 at an angle directly into them. But this pretty much only works on the heavys and space animals. If you PM me your Wii and Brawl friend codes I'll send you a video I made just showing how to do it on Fox. Only issue with it is that they can mess it up if they DI the right way, but even then you'll do good damage with PKT1 and they'll be far enough away that you won't be punished. When throwing near the edge I would definetly say just throw them off and edgeguard with PKT1. As far as getting grabs off you just have to work at it. It's awful if you miss but all I can say to help there is just work on predicting your opponent. Shield grabs are not nearly as useful in Brawl as they were in Melee because the shield comes down fast enough that you can pull of better moves instead. When I'm hit with my shield up I usually do a short hop nair or else a double jump dair.

 

[Shibby]

I would suggest at low percentages to do either down throw to up tilt or down throw to PK Thunder depending on the character. Down throw to Uair works sometimes too. I would NOT suggest using an upsmash after a throw because someone can easily DI out of it. Probably the most lethal Lucas throw combo is Down throw to PK Thunder, hit the enemy with the side of the head, followed by PKT2 at an angle directly into them. But this pretty much only works on the heavys and space animals. If you PM me your Wii and Brawl friend codes I'll send you a video I made just showing how to do it on Fox. Only issue with it is that they can mess it up if they DI the right way, but even then you'll do good damage with PKT1 and they'll be far enough away that you won't be punished. When throwing near the edge I would definetly say just throw them off and edgeguard with PKT1. As far as getting grabs off you just have to work at it. It's awful if you miss but all I can say to help there is just work on predicting your opponent. Shield grabs are not nearly as useful in Brawl as they were in Melee because the shield comes down fast enough that you can pull of better moves instead. When I'm hit with my shield up I usually do a short hop nair or else a double jump dair.

Do you punch your enemy once you grapple them? Or just throw them instantly?


Also, my roommate uses Kirby against me so the throw to PK thunder equals a rock on my head.

For this situation, down toss to a Neutral Air? (the flail move)


Thanks for the advice!

 

[Tyr_03]

At low percentages down throw to up tilt literally will always hit. I usually throw them instantly but mostly out of laziness. Punching them a bit can't hurt. And yeah PK Thunder won't get you anywhere against Kirby out of the down throw.

 

[TechnoMonster]

My throw setups (posted recently in another thread)

0-10% D-throw to N-air (this is a combo) to followups. You can sometimes land a f-air after it or space a f-tilt when they land.
10-25% D-throw to questionable combo.
25%-130% Get my hits it, and throw them off the stage and go for a gimp. Not too high of a success rate but a good spike can turn a match around completely. At mid percents sometimes I'll d-throw and bait a dodge and punish with a b-air or u-air.
130%+ Whack whack whack whack downthrow. Dthrow kills stuff at high %s

When running, shield as you grab to do your standing grab with a little slide. Same range, less lag = win

 

[Jihnsius]

Whether or not to attack during a grab is something that's not easily answered. If you grab and have a feeling a throw might guarantee a KO or some easy edgeguarding, throw them before they can input DI. If you're playing someone in person, attack and listen for them wiggling. If they wiggle, throw. If they don't, get a few hits in until they start to, then throw. If they don't wiggle, it's something like 1 hit per 35%.

EDIT: Against Kirby, if he knows about the downthrow to thunder combo, try to bait him into using his down B with the thunder, but instead of chasing him, knock yourself into the ground and use your getup attack for some invinicibility frames. Or if he's not too clever, just use PK Fire to bait the down B and just walk away.

 

[Trozz]

1.) Say I grapple someone (@ lower percentage), what should I do with them? Hit them two or three times then "up toss" / "down toss" into a uncharged up-smash? This is assuming I'm closer to the middle of the stage.

It's really unlikely that you'll hit anyone with a u-smash right after a throw; it's way too easy to avoid and counter attack. Instead, just throw them towards either a stage edge or a stage hazard. They'll have less options than if you'dve thrown them up.

2.) I assume if I am closer to the end of the stage (enemy still at lower percentage), punch two or three times and toss off the stage and attempt to edge-guard with PK-Thunder? (I've gotten pretty good at juggling CPU's / Human players around)

If you can get them over the edge, PK Thunder is a great way to give them a hard time. Get your PKT doing circles (so the tail hits them instead of the head) to deflect them outwards more.

3.) Lets say I grapple someone at a higher percentage. Do I hit them four or five times then "down toss"? (Assuming "up toss" would throw them too high for a Up-Smash)

Hit them with the grapple attack a lot. If they are very damaged (over 120%), throw them up and you might score a kill. Otherwise, throw them towards an edge and follow up with PK Thunder.

4.) Anyone have advice for dash-grapples? (dash then slide grapple kind of...) The snake is really hit or miss, and if I miss I'm going to get punished... Also the timing of this because the snake does have a reach.

Run towards your enemy and use a dash attack (A). Keep doing this until he starts blocking it, then use the dash grapple. Mind games!

5.) I'm working on shield grapples as well. Any advice for this is welcome too!

Run towards the opponent who is going to shield what he thinks will be a dash attack, hold the shield button when you are close, then tap A. This is the best way to do a moving grab.

 

[Shibby]

Awesome advice guys!