Lucas Grab Buffs???

[PKEarthbound]

Hey guys I've been playing around with Lucas ever since he was available as DLC and I know pretty much everyone knows how much his grab is pretty lackluster, but I've been wondering what kind of buffs you guys would like to see on his grab, besides the small ones that were added in the most recent patch.

Personally, I think that the first thing that absolutely NEEDS to be improved is his normal grab range, that thing, at least compared to ZSS, Link, and Toon Link's grabs, is extremely small. Seriously, not once have I been able to grab a player who dodged away from me even though we were face to face.

 

[MacSmitty]

Hey guys I've been playing around with Lucas ever since he was available as DLC and I know pretty much everyone knows how much his grab is pretty lackluster, but I've been wondering what kind of buffs you guys would like to see on his grab, besides the small ones that were added in the most recent patch.

Personally, I think that the first thing that absolutely NEEDS to be improved is his normal grab range, that thing, at least compared to ZSS, Link, and Toon Link's grabs, is extremely small. Seriously, not once have I been able to grab a player who dodged away from me even though we were face to face.

For starters, it needs to be a bit, faster. I'd say Brawl pivot grab fast.

 

[PKEarthbound]

Ooh yeah that would be pretty nice, it'd make for a better punishing tool on the ground and could possibly make SH zair to grab more reliable and better than before

 

[JohnnyB]

Idk. I think the rewards Lucas gets from getting the grab mostly makes up for it being a little lackluster. They did also buff it in the last patch.

 

[PKEarthbound]

Not really, considering the things that Link and ZSS can do after a grab, and how much better their grabs are, it's actually not that fair for the poor boy.

 

[JohnnyB]

I really don't agree with that logic. Villager has the worst grab in the game and gets less off of it than Lucas, and i don't see any reason why it should be any different. You can't just compare one single aspect a character to another and say it's not fair when one of them is superior.

 

[PKEarthbound]

The thing is I wasn't referring to normal grabs, I was comparing them to the ranged grabs of other characters who actually have them and use them to make a few combos. Like you said, Villager is a character who doesn't have that many options out of a grab, with the exception of a few kill throws at higher percentages, and doesn't really depend on it as much, but he has the items needed to win in the form of his projectiles, aerials, and great recovery. So for someone like Lucas who often relies on his grab to recover, make combos, or possibly gimp someone with z-air, it simply isn't fair to give him a sort of below average grab while a character like ZSS, who already has around 3 recovery options(including z-air), a spammable projectile with giant hitstun, and the fifth highest running speed in the game, has a better grab that can lead into combos, has longer range on both zair and on the ground with faster speed, and can kill at higher percents if followed up with the right aerial and correctly reads the opponents DI.
And besides I'm not asking for extremely major buffs here, just some minor changes like maybe a slightly longer active frame window, or changes to how fast it comes out.

 

[AncientCode42]

Well I agree it could be faster but I don't see it as too bad. Maybe it's just me Idk. His Zair is really good for approaching, especially after PK Fire mix ups and Nair combos. Plus he has good throwing options. His U-Throw can kill well. It's not as bad as say Villager. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[PKEarthbound]

Yeah, speed is something that definitely needs to be changed, his pivot grab doesn't even come out faster like it did back in Brawl.

 

[Jigglystep]

It really bugs me that his pivot grab is no different than his regular grab. No extended range, no short ending lag, nothing.. aside from that, it would also be wonderful if his grab came out faster. It sucks being beaten out be quick jabs.

Although I'm definitely thankful for the buffs our grab received in the latest patch.

 

[JesterJaded]

Longer range, less start-up / endlag, and more guaranteed grab conversions should be good enough buffs when it comes to Lucas' grab game. While the reward Lucas gets from his throw combos can potentially be monumental compared to the risk, the high-percentage combos can be difficult to pull off and you still need the read / punish to get the grab, otherwise you're whiffing away a stock.

Honestly I'd be happy with more grab conversions like Zair and D-tilt > grab with a little less start-up lag so we can have some solid approaches against shield, the grab doesn't have to be particularly over-buffed compared to other tethers so long as we can convert into it. This keeps us having to earn our ridiculous throw combo shenanigans while keeping the high risk if used without conversions, but it negates the need to solely rely on reads and / or whiffs.

 

[MrWhYYZ]

His grab has just been buffed people, come on.
Also with 12 frames not only is his grab faster than it was in brawl
Standing/Dash/Pivot
13/16/15 <- Brawl
12/14/12 <- Smash 4
He has one of the fastest tether grabs in the game.
Samus and ZZS are both 16 frames and recover a lot slower as well.

 

[PKEarthbound]

His grab has just been buffed people, come on.
Also with 12 frames not only is his grab faster than it was in brawl
Standing/Dash/Pivot
13/16/15 <- Brawl
12/14/12 <- Smash 4
He has one of the fastest tether grabs in the game.
Samus and ZZS are both 16 frames and recover a lot slower as well.

Is his standing grab really faster than his Brawl pivot grab??? It doesn't really feel like it is

Longer range, less start-up / endlag, and more guaranteed grab conversions should be good enough buffs when it comes to Lucas' grab game. While the reward Lucas gets from his throw combos can potentially be monumental compared to the risk, the high-percentage combos can be difficult to pull off and you still need the read / punish to get the grab, otherwise you're whiffing away a stock.

Honestly I'd be happy with more grab conversions like Zair and D-tilt > grab with a little less start-up lag so we can have some solid approaches against shield, the grab doesn't have to be particularly over-buffed compared to other tethers so long as we can convert into it. This keeps us having to earn our ridiculous throw combo shenanigans while keeping the high risk if used without conversions, but it negates the need to solely rely on reads and / or whiffs.

Yeah if we don't get at least a few minor buffs in speed, at least increase the range for the grab, especially zair, even though it's been buffed from Brawl, it's smaller than Link's and ZSS' tether recoveries in terms of when you're able to recover.

 

[pikazz]

his grab is so-so good. not really the best but its far from worse (jr has a worse grab than lucas and lucas is just a notch longer)

I would love if the grab itself is either much faster or much longer for its current speed (would be awesome if it was as far as his ZAir so you can grab rollers like ZSS and Samus), it would be a god bless

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

Damn, you're already talking about buffs to your grab after it got buffed in the last patch? Considering the character I main, , I can only wish I could be in that position.

 

[MrWhYYZ]

Is his standing grab really faster than his Brawl pivot grab??? It doesn't really feel like it is

It is. Just look up the frame data.
@ pikazz How much faster should his grab be then? 8 frames?

 

[PKEarthbound]

It is. Just look up the frame data.
@ pikazz How much faster should his grab be then? 8 frames?

Wow I can't believe it's faster, I guess it just seems slower since this game's metagame is a bit more fast paced than Brawl's. Then I guess all we really need a buff on is a bit more range for normal or tether recovery, preferably normal grab.

 

[SpottedCerberus]

Lucas's grab is cool imo. He needs a bigger grab reward. I don't know how this would be possible, but his d-throw needs to be not as affected by rage. His kill throws should be buffed a bit. His u-tilt should have reduced end-lag, so it can true combo into aerials.

Also, u-air should have a bigger hitbox.

 

[PKEarthbound]

Lucas's grab is cool imo. He needs a bigger grab reward. I don't know how this would be possible, but his d-throw needs to be not as affected by rage. His kill throws should be buffed a bit. His u-tilt should have reduced end-lag, so it can true combo into aerials.

Also, u-air should have a bigger hitbox.

Actually, that's not a bad idea, I guess that'd be a better alternative considering the fact that we don't always get a guaranteed combo even if we do land a grab. I think It'd be just fine if this happened instead of buffs to grab. Also, isn't knockback growth something they would tweak to make d-throw the way you described it?

 

[k-ta]

I literally just had Rope Snake go right through Robin and Lucina while they were standing when I tried to grab them in a match on 3DS.

I never had a problem with Lucas' grab up until that happened.
THANKS DEVS

 

[SpottedCerberus]

Lucas's grab is cool imo. He needs a bigger grab reward. I don't know how this would be possible, but his d-throw needs to be not as affected by rage. His kill throws should be buffed a bit. His u-tilt should have reduced end-lag, so it can true combo into aerials.

Also, u-air should have a bigger hitbox.

I kind of disagree with this now. Lucas's biggest problem is that his aerial game is too weak. He doesn't have a single aerial that comes out before frame 7, and none of them auto-cancel from a short-hop.

Even Samus has a frame 5 u-air and a frame 6 f-air, and Zelda has a frame 6 n-air and b-air. So that's pretty bad aerial frame data for a non-heavyweight.

And the lack of auto-canceling makes life a lot harder.

(And also u-air hitbox is still ****.)