Lucas 0-death confirm impossible as of Patch 1.1.3

[I speak Spanish too]

As we know, Lucas has received great buffs on the FAF on his grabs which ultimately means that you suffer less end lag on whiff, and you can act out of it faster makes throws harder to DI on reaction. However, Lucas has received one huge nerf which is on his neutral air.

The looping hits damage has been increased from 1.0 to 2.0% meaning that the n-air footstool set-up will no longer confirm 0-death on every character on the cast.

Of course, this is dependent on character weight, fall speed, gravity, etc but from testing on Mario, the 0-death is not possible because Mario it sent to high around 35% making the footstool impossible.

Video Confirm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sb2wRUQx1s

 

[busken]

It's not that big of a deal lol

 

[A Polar Bear]

Please, no confirmation bias.

D-throw -> footstool d-air lock / footstool magnet momentum cancel fair still work, which were arguably the better ways to get the "0-death" than following up after n-air. And I put 0-death in quotations because you can rarely carry opponents to a KO anyway. If n-air really is harder to follow up as of this patch, this isn't the viewpoint to be looking at it.

 

[Deleted member]

Please, no confirmation bias.

D-throw -> footstool d-air lock / footstool magnet momentum cancel fair still work, which were arguably the better ways to get the "0-death" than following up after n-air. And I put 0-death in quotations because you can rarely carry opponents to a KO anyway. If n-air really is harder to follow up as of this patch, this isn't the viewpoint to be looking at it.

Exactly, Lucas has a ton of more options than the "0 to Death".

 

[SpandexBullets]

Nair's loop hits now act grab setup because they combo with d-tilt, jab and uptilt.
This makes it much more amazing and versatile as an aerial than pre-1.1.3 nair. The footstool combos are too risky and are rarely seen in competitive play; it's easier to just go for the d-throw>nair>fair/upair/nair for guaranteed damage. That's still like 30% off of one grab, and it ends with your opponents either over you or towards the ledge/offstage.

 

[MrWhYYZ]

It still works.

 

[FUEGO!]

So we lost our favorite thing to do to for glory players, big deal...

 

[frozentreasure]

You mean the incredibly elaborate, barely worthwhile combo string isn't possible on a few more characters to go with the several slow-falling characters that it already didn't work on reliably?

You're probably right, Lucas is far less viable as a competitive character now. If only he had a dozen other combo options from his grab at literally any percent with which to rack up damage and gain stage control, he might still be viable.

I guess we should switch to Ness while the getting's good.

 

[Lochy]

Nair's loop hits now act grab setup because they combo with d-tilt, jab and uptilt.
This makes it much more amazing and versatile as an aerial than pre-1.1.3 nair. The footstool combos are too risky and are rarely seen in competitive play; it's easier to just go for the d-throw>nair>fair/upair/nair for guaranteed damage. That's still like 30% off of one grab, and it ends with your opponents either over you or towards the ledge/offstage.

That moment when d throw -> nair -> nair does 30 percent. FTW!

 

[Lochy]

But now
d throw
Nair
Full hop dair
Fastfall nair (only land a couple hits)
Into x2 d tilt
Into grab or f smash is waaaayyyy easier to get now.
So i think losing that one zero to death doesn't matter that much.

 

[JosePollo]

That moment when d throw -> nair -> nair does 30 percent. FTW!

+up air for 43% *kreygasm*

 

[FUEGO!]

+up air for 43% *kreygasm*

or + fair for 42% that sets up into Bair spike potential? Just my favorite looking string that New Fair can set up.

 

[JosePollo]

Fair reaches that high after the second nair? I think you'd have to do it after the first nair, in which case that would only be 27.5% (6.5%+12.0%+11.0%), but with the possibility of other follow-ups.

 

[EmpireCrusher203]

Zero-to-death combos are unpractical and extremely hard. Why not play normally and add in few combo strings to get the same effect, killing the player. Don't see much of this in the metagame, but if you guys truly want a zero-to-death combo, well it's back to the drawing board, find another one.

Also, the damage increase is pretty great. Makes those smaller combos like DThrow > NAir, more stronger and effective.

 

[FUEGO!]

Fair reaches that high after the second nair? I think you'd have to do it after the first nair, in which case that would only be 27.5% (6.5%+12.0%+11.0%), but with the possibility of other follow-ups.

My buddy's DI might just be Ass, but I manage to get the combo i mentioned on him pretty often as a mix-up from the typical Nair nair Upair one.

 

[A Polar Bear]

I'm more partial to n-air > d-air on the characters that are harder to get n-air n-air u-air on. Loving the new n-air, especially fastfalling into grounded opponents with it.

 

[FUEGO!]

Loving the new n-air, especially fastfalling into grounded opponents with it.

Is that safer now? I kinda un-learned that habit because it was getting me punished.

 

[JosePollo]

Is that safer now? I kinda un-learned that habit because it was getting me punished.

Yeah the extra 1.0% makes a huge difference and starts confirming into d-tilt/up tilt at like 70% (give or take the 1 frame difference). Even at lower percentages opponents have to react very quickly to escape when they get hit by nair.

It's not any safer on shield, though. In fact, it's less safe now that you get additional hitlag (though the opponent is also stuck in shield a little longer). I really feel like they should reduce the hitlag to like 0.7 or something. 5 hits of electric hitlag (electric moves automatically get additional hitlag) is a ridiculous amount.

 

[FUEGO!]

Yeah the extra 1.0% makes a huge difference and starts confirming into d-tilt/up tilt at like 70% (give or take the 1 frame difference). Even at lower percentages opponents have to react very quickly to escape when they get hit by nair.

It's not any safer on shield, though. In fact, it's less safe now that you get additional hitlag (though the opponent is also stuck in shield a little longer). I really feel like they should reduce the hitlag to like 0.7 or something. 5 hits of electric hitlag (electric moves automatically get additional hitlag) is a ridiculous amount.

Oh, i had thought it was "magic" category hit lag, whatever that may be.

 

[JosePollo]

Oh, i had thought it was "magic" category hit lag, whatever that may be.

Yeah he's stuck with electric attacks instead, which only serves to make him less safe on shield, and less capable of linking multi-hitting moves successfully. They should've at least made it like Pikachu's electric attacks, which have lowered hitlag modifiers and less gaps between hitboxes.

 

[MadCanard]

Do y'all have links to videos of all these combos you're mentioning? I've seen some, but you've mentioned some stuff above that I have no seen before.