Logistics of Making Hazardous Stages Hazardless

[BestTeaMaker]

So, if you haven't heard, the latest update for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U has added additional stage compatability with 8-player mode:

• Mario Circuit (Brawl)
• Luigi's Mansion
• Pyrosphere
• Norfair
• Lylat Cruise
• Pokemon Stadium 2
• Town & City
• Smashville
• Wii Fit Studio
• Mario Galaxy Ω
• Mario Circuit (Brawl) Ω
• Great Cave Offensive Ω
• Lylat Cruise Ω
• Pokemon Stadium 2 Ω
• Town & City Ω

Now, what's really interesting is that the many of the above stages have had certain features removed to allow the game to run smoothly with 5+ players. The following changes documented by C0liosi on Reddit were as follows:

• Mario Circuit (Brawl) - lacks shyguys
• Luigi's Mansion - Can't be destroyed
• Pyrosphere - lacks ridley
• Norfair - no lava at all
• Lylat Cruise - no ships flying around
• Pokémon Stadium 2 - lacks stage transitions
• Town and City - All background characters removed
• Smashville - All background characters removed (cept petey, he stayed at a slow framerate)
• Studio Wii Fit - no mirror background

Now the only way that this occurs if there are more than 5+ players on stage at the same time during the beginning of the match. Ideally, you have the extra players (3 for singles, 1 for doubles) SD. And since the stages aren't transitional, you can set the timer to an extra minute to allow the players to reset to neutral.

A big issue however is that this requires setup time. If any of these stages could be potentially used, then it needs extra controllers to work, if at all. It also means that for those who lack enough controllers probably won't be able to practice on these stages as well on their own.

In a way, it might not be that big of a deal for tournaments. Since there are spectators anyways, you can ask the spectators to plug their controllers in to help load the map. A TO could also help by individually SDing each character one by one, which can be done thanks to the extra minute.

Another problem is that this cannot be done for online tournaments, as 8-player mode does not exist online. So, there would be an even bigger discrepancy between IRL and Online tournaments.

Obviously, this is a lot of work to do for a few more competitively viable stages. But as someone who is looking to see how the meta of Smash 4 can be affected, I think it's at least worth experimenting in some way. Personally, I do believe that Pokemon Stadium 2 is already a fine stage on its own as its hazards have been toned down from Brawl. Luigi's Mansion is a bit iffy due to the existence of caves of life. But using this method, it could help make Norfair legal (imagine that) for singles and Pyrosphere for doubles (it's still too big for singles, hilariously enough).

What do you guys think?

 

[Squid Squad]

Sounds like a really good update, but it makes me wonder if they plan on making a hazzard switch outside 8-player smash in a future update.

As it is right now though I can't see the use of these stages given the setup issues aside from 3v3 and 4v4.

 

[Space thing]

You'd have to use NPC's or Lucario's aura would get out of control from one simple mistake in SD'ing/killing.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Sounds like a really good update, but it makes me wonder if they plan on making a hazzard switch outside 8-player smash in a future update.

As it is right now though I can't see the use of these stages given the setup issues aside from 3v3 and 4v4.

We can dream, but I doubt it. More likely it's to avoid possible lag issues with 8 players + hazards + fancy background events all happening at once. (That's the only explanation I can think of for making Wii Fit Studio's mirror nonreflective.)

Addressing OP, I'm not sure using 8P smash to play these stages without hazards will really catch on. Logistically it's annoying at the very least.

 

[Teshie U]

Norfair, Pyrosphere and Mansion are all going to wind up being terrible layouts for competitive play anyway.

Just wait for the ability to share custom stages and you can recreate a static hazard free version of any stage just fine.

 

[κomıc]

Wishing something called Alpha stages were implemented. It just removes the stage hazards. Mario Power Tennis did a great job by giving you the option to remove gimmicks from several courts. Not sure why Smash can't do the same besides just turning everything into a FD stage.

 

[HeroMystic]

The fact that 5+ players has to be on the stage pretty much makes this obsolete. No one is going to make four players set up their controllers to counterpick a stage.

 

[webbedspace]

You only need 3 more players: the two competitors + 3 neutral dummies = 5.

Anyway, crosspost from the stage discussion thread:

Hmm - I notice that in 8-Player Smash, all of these so-called "starter" stages are available:
* Battlefield
* Ω Palutena's Temple (or whatever)
* Smashville
* Town and City
* Duck Hunt
* Lylat Cruise

Let's now add 3 to the list:
* Pyrosphere
* PS2
* Norfair

That means it's possible to play every commonly-endorsed "starter" stage, plus 3 more, all from the 8-Player Smash screen. What if it were proposed that only the first game of a set must take place in 8-player mode, and all subsequent games must be in normal mode? That'd have the uncomfortable effect of soft-banning the new three for purely logistical reasons (replacing them with 3+ touring/transforming stages), but would mean that players can't keep switching from 8-player's character select screen to normal if they change their mind during stage selection, which would be in itself a cumbersome state of affairs.

 

[BestTeaMaker]

You only need 3 more players: the two competitors + 3 neutral dummies = 5.

Anyway, crosspost from the stage discussion thread:

It doesn't make sense to limit stages to one game. Why limit when players can potentially play stages? And in that aspect where people are doing starter/counterpicks, I wouldn't count Norfair, Luigi's Mansion, or Pyrosphere a starter.

I guess this sort of thing would be better during Doubles matches, since then instead of needing 3 extra controllers, you just need 1 more, which the TO can provide.

 

[cot(θ)]

Each Wii U typically has a Gamepad associated with it. If it's with the setup, that's one controller taken care of.

We could also have 3 lvl 1 CPU dummies at 300% handicap, and have the players take them out beforehand, before returning to neutral positions. Give the players an extra stock too, in case they take damage.

Not exactly the ideal solution, but at least more controllers aren't needed.

 

[BestTeaMaker]

I mean, considering the average Wii U owner, they would have a WiiMote, Gamepad, and a Pro Controller along with the gamecube controller for smash bros. It could be doable.

 

[Raijinken]

It's doable, and in my opinion, worth it, unless we decide to adopt the use of Custom stages.

But I don't expect many would agree.

 

[BestTeaMaker]

Custom stages are hard to do atm since the function to upload Custom stages doesn't exist yet.

 

[Pazx]

There is no reason not to legalise PS2 and Norfair for doubles. I also like the 300% handicapped CPU idea.