I want to preface everything before I begin. I have never been competetive in a Smash game but have in quite a few other traditional fighters. Little Mac quickly became my star choice through his imperical use of the "wait" game in his attempts to thwart the opponent. These are my findings and tips plus a lot compiled through my perusing of Smashboards. If I did not give due credit to you please bring it to my attention. I've got a lot to go over so lets get started.
The first rule that all Little Mac's agree on: DO NOT AERIAL. They are at the very most considered "usable" aerials. But that is not saying much against anyone with a ranged game or better than you aerial game (AKA Everyone).
The second global Little Mac rule that I've found: Patience is your virtue! I've tried multiple styled rushdowns to tack on as much damage as possible and even with constant assaults still come up at the most evening out our (opponents and my own) damage%. This basically means: Punish Punish Punish. Wait for the opponent to whiff or give you the advantage, otherwise you are left to a mid-range game that is very reliant on fsmash's and Dash attacking. Which makes you the "somewhat" easily punishable one. (Yeah-yeah Fsmash's safeblockability).
I also agree with most everyone's assumption of wanting to stay on a large ground platform or maintaining middle ground on FD or Omega (For Glory) maps. On any Omega map (including FD) I cut my Ftilt + Special usage to almost nil. It just gets me killed almost assuredly.
Something that was brought to my attention with my joining Smashboards:
Nat Gomez' stellar post on what projectiles are 'punchable'. These can either be Jabs or Fsmashes from what Nat Gomez is saying but I will let her(him?) explain through Nat's own experimentation:
-Megaman's jab and crash bomber. I wasn't able to cancel his metal blade cause it kinda pierce through.
-Pacman's bonus fruit, but just the weak ones. I think his ftilt could throw away his Fire Hydrant too but i couldn't test it because the CPU refused to do that to me.
-Palutena's auto-retical is wierd... sometimes it nullify them, sometimes it doesn't. But most of the times it doesn't so is not a safe way to go.
-Pikachu's thunder jolt... personally this one is the more annoying projectile in the game, luckily Mac's jab can nullify them, but for it bouncing effect sometimes it will go exactly under your jab and get to you, so one of the best strategies is to jab one and shield the other, and same with all the others or simply ftilt them while getting closer him.
-Olimar's Pikmins, if you jab them you'll hit them multiple times, but sometimes some of them will get to you, you'll hit them with your jab too though. I didn't tried to ftilt them though, need to do that.
-Robin's Thunder and Elthunder, can't nullify Arcthunder or obviously Thoron. If you jab or ftilt his Arcfire just in time it will burn away from you, but be careful anyway because it's final hit have a bigger hitbox than usual.
-Villager's Lloyd Rocket can also be nullified with either jab or ftilt. Couldn't try with his fair.
-Wii Fit Trainer's unchaged or middle charged sun solutation and his Soccer Ball need to test it more, but i think it can also throw it away with ftilt.
-King DeDeDe's Gordo Throws, can't be jabed but it can be ftilted to throw it back at him.
-Bowser's Koopa Cannon if not completely charged can be nullified with either jab or ftilt, if it is completely charged you can see it coming from forever ago and either cancel it with fsmash or just dodge it. Can also add that you can grab his walking mecha koopa if it's close enough to you just by pressing "A" buttom and have it like an item.
-Duck Hunt:
1. Frisbee just by jabbing, sometimes the little explosions will get to you but doing minor damage, and most of the times they won't.
2. The Can... this one i'm happy about, but the hardest one to do in my opinion. Duck Hunt's will almost always try to throw the can at you from above by shooting to it multiple times and then let it fall to you, you're best option is to roll backwards wait for it to hit the ground and then ftilt it or dsmash it, you will hit the can throw it away and luckily hitting the dog with it. Also if you hit the can and it's still on stage the dogs shots will make it go to the side you send it, but be aware he just need to hit it himself to change it's direction again. If he tries to hit you with it from the ground with constant shots you should wait for it to touch the ground to hit it. (Be Aware that if you hit it while his shooting at it it will explode to you, so max range and good timing are the Key.)
-Zero Suit Samus's Stun Gun no matter how charged it is, i'm happy about this one too.
There are some projectiles it doesn't work, like:
-Shiek's neutral b.
-Normal Link's charged arrows, boomerang, and bombs.
-Pit's and Dark Pit arrows.
Through what I've learned from these examples and my own practice. These seem like very effective way to not only block some long range projectiles, but also get into the mind of your opponent and screw with their confidence. Little Mac excels at making your opponent slip up through changing your style in how to approach them. As I was saying earlier: devolving your playstyle to rushdowns consisting of mainly his safeblockable attacks like fsmash and dash attacks makes him somewhat punishable through his repetitiveness.
BUT...
This can also be your greatest asset. I like to call them hard-changeups. Play however you'd like to play for whatever map you are on, or the MU that presents itself. Then aggressively change styles when you notice they're slowing down to Mac's speed. An example: Robins'. Our bane but also our greatest teaching tool. If a Robin is poking aggressively, the typical Mac gameplay is to approach cautiously and close the gap through Robin's spellweaving. Effective but hard to pull off depending on who/where you're fighting. What I've been able to tell, in most stock-oriented fights, simply leaving them to stew is the best case scenario. Get THEM to change their playstyle. And when that pendulum swings and Robin tries to get closer to hit you with a charged spell or a pillar of flame. Punish him. Anyways back to basics.
A side note while I'm thinking of it: The infamous Ftilt Special. Incredible amounts of endlag (the amount of time to recover to neutral state) and if used incorrectly has major potential to get you either self-destructed over the ledge left helpless, or just punched in the face for a whiffed haymaker, both not fun. I actually use it similarly to Dudly's Shortwing Blow (if any SF fans out there). I use my shield dodge at a time where the mid-range opponent wouldnt expect or to where it seems like it wouldn't assist. Example: Running at the opponent and about 4 lengths from your opponent (when they would chose to poke-stop your dash attack or otherwise keep from being dash-sMACked) dodge back THEN lunge with Ftilt+Special. The distance most of the time with practice puts the full fired swipe immediately on the opponent leaving very few frames for dodging or changing their tune. Plus the super-armor the lunge gives you can even dive through most projectiles! (Including Robins Mid-or-lower charge spell! (If this could be double-checked by testers(HMU I'll help))
Another use for it is it's incredibly horizontal movement. It reaches quite far and can completely change your direction mid-flight. I will use this often as a way to juke out of spells/projectiles mid-air or to even retreat from some AoE attacks that a simple dodge roll won't achieve. (This only works in a select few areas/MUs so your mileage may vary with any use of Ftilt + Special. CAREFUL USE IS BEST!)
Another breakdown that brought some great new combos to my gameplay and a quick reference for some skills provided by user: Feeojo
GOOD MOVES:
-dash + Usmash (quick to punish)
-dash + grab (mind game)
-dash + shield + Fsmash (if opponent is attacking)
-up-tilted Fsmash (combo into up special)
-down tilted Fsmash + Ftilt (deals more damage + safe on block at max range)
-FTilt (rack up damage + safe on block if max range)
-Jab (rack up damage)
COMBOS:
-(from 0%): grab - pummel twice - down throw (sends up) - dash Usmash or up special
-(low %): down tilt (stun) - forward tilt - up tilt or Usmash
-(20% +):down tilt + KO
STRATEGIES:
-opens up with jabs, tilts (armor or push back shield), and throws (Dont approach using smashes)
-use USmash vs short hops + anti air
-short hop KO uppercut (edge guard) / down tilt + KO uppercut
-Counter / dodge when in air/thrown off
-Roll dodging + dashing is a must
-Use super armor when edge guarding
-Side special (best aerial move) can be ended early by repressing
-activate neutral special before full charge
-use Fsmash during opponent attack (risk reward)
A few of these are common use skills, but some of the ideas Feeojo brings to the table I find myself working into my gameplay somewhat positively. As always with credited info YMMV but give 'em a shot and see if any pop up as useful to your style.
Now to a horse of a different color. COUNTER USAGE!
I feel like good counter usage is what sets most Mac's apart. I feel like this far exceeds some of the other counters in the game, (here's looking at you SHULK) and here is my reasoning. Mac is unarmed. Less animation = Less time. It takes very little time to pull off the counter and with the animation of his riposte being his entire arm can even help you block a edgeguard projectile and reach the ledge to grab for a close-call edge save. I want to state that even if the counter does not connect, the animation will go through even if hit with a projectile. Little Mac's Counter makes him INVULNVERABLE to the first thing hitting him. I have even countered Falcon Punches and Bowser Fire of all things with this ability.(Few ticks of burn damage through super armor but I'll take that over shield blocking full length breath attack haha)
I've gone over quite a bit, and would love this to turn into a discussion!
Some other tips and hints of note from other threads that seem to really hit well with me:
Vyous: "...you can f-smash raw out of little mac's run. It might be a good approach if you think you're opponent is going to try and poke you out, since you can beat their poke with the armor, and they might not expect it."
STiCKYBULL3TZ: "If you're really afraid of it (Mac's KO Punch) all you have to do is avoid Little Mac for 6 seconds after he gets it. Any damage he takes after that will kill his K.O. punch."
LightningLoops: "
- Run and pivot into F-tilt or grab. Add some variety to your dash attacks.
- On ledge, jump and immediately Down-B. Great punish for over-aggressive opponents.
- While edgeguarding, grab your opponent, pummel them but don't throw them. When they break free, catch them in the air with a F-smash or F-tilt.
- Press A twice, wait a moment, then press A. You get your two jabs, then the launcher. You can also jab twice, then grab.
- Up-smash has a sweet spot when close to the opponent. You'll notice when the opponent is launched with flames. "
Mimgrim: "Most of Mac's moves are safe on shield. And they shouldn't be able to shield moves like Ftilt, Dtilt, and Jab on reaction. Fsmash is also safe on block and does quite a bit of shield damage. Mix that up with grabs and those up with grabs and shield shouldn't be a problem. Due to the safeness of his moves on block, he is able to do shield pressure quite well. " ... "Just don't do it stupidly. :L "
STiCKYBULL3TZ: " Little Mac is good but don't let his power trick you into thinking you can do whatever you want. You have to play him like you would in a Punch-Out!! game. Find openings and punish. He can pretty much walk up to characters with no fear and punch them in the face."
And as the final bit of assistance I hope to give to all my other Mac-Attackers:
1. He has a walljump (LE GASP! Also... why?)
2. PLEASE look at this thread. Compiled by our Sir, Mr. Opossum:
tinylink(dot)net/m7wlq (Are You Ready For The Next Challenge?)(Sorry not past my ten posts but broken tinylink ftw)
This thread alone with bring a lot of wierd MU's against Mac that don't seem off at first but bring a LOAD of wonderful ideas to the table, in both who to possibly switch characters against, or at least how to combat them with the character you have.
Yet again, Thanks to all that have stuck it out this far, and if anyone can critique or discuss any ideas I have in person or any brought up by our other board members: Please! Go right ahead. We grow through fighting and talking about it. Smash On Macs!
The first rule that all Little Mac's agree on: DO NOT AERIAL. They are at the very most considered "usable" aerials. But that is not saying much against anyone with a ranged game or better than you aerial game (AKA Everyone).
The second global Little Mac rule that I've found: Patience is your virtue! I've tried multiple styled rushdowns to tack on as much damage as possible and even with constant assaults still come up at the most evening out our (opponents and my own) damage%. This basically means: Punish Punish Punish. Wait for the opponent to whiff or give you the advantage, otherwise you are left to a mid-range game that is very reliant on fsmash's and Dash attacking. Which makes you the "somewhat" easily punishable one. (Yeah-yeah Fsmash's safeblockability).
I also agree with most everyone's assumption of wanting to stay on a large ground platform or maintaining middle ground on FD or Omega (For Glory) maps. On any Omega map (including FD) I cut my Ftilt + Special usage to almost nil. It just gets me killed almost assuredly.
Something that was brought to my attention with my joining Smashboards:
Nat Gomez' stellar post on what projectiles are 'punchable'. These can either be Jabs or Fsmashes from what Nat Gomez is saying but I will let her(him?) explain through Nat's own experimentation:
-Megaman's jab and crash bomber. I wasn't able to cancel his metal blade cause it kinda pierce through.
-Pacman's bonus fruit, but just the weak ones. I think his ftilt could throw away his Fire Hydrant too but i couldn't test it because the CPU refused to do that to me.
-Palutena's auto-retical is wierd... sometimes it nullify them, sometimes it doesn't. But most of the times it doesn't so is not a safe way to go.
-Pikachu's thunder jolt... personally this one is the more annoying projectile in the game, luckily Mac's jab can nullify them, but for it bouncing effect sometimes it will go exactly under your jab and get to you, so one of the best strategies is to jab one and shield the other, and same with all the others or simply ftilt them while getting closer him.
-Olimar's Pikmins, if you jab them you'll hit them multiple times, but sometimes some of them will get to you, you'll hit them with your jab too though. I didn't tried to ftilt them though, need to do that.
-Robin's Thunder and Elthunder, can't nullify Arcthunder or obviously Thoron. If you jab or ftilt his Arcfire just in time it will burn away from you, but be careful anyway because it's final hit have a bigger hitbox than usual.
-Villager's Lloyd Rocket can also be nullified with either jab or ftilt. Couldn't try with his fair.
-Wii Fit Trainer's unchaged or middle charged sun solutation and his Soccer Ball need to test it more, but i think it can also throw it away with ftilt.
-King DeDeDe's Gordo Throws, can't be jabed but it can be ftilted to throw it back at him.
-Bowser's Koopa Cannon if not completely charged can be nullified with either jab or ftilt, if it is completely charged you can see it coming from forever ago and either cancel it with fsmash or just dodge it. Can also add that you can grab his walking mecha koopa if it's close enough to you just by pressing "A" buttom and have it like an item.
-Duck Hunt:
1. Frisbee just by jabbing, sometimes the little explosions will get to you but doing minor damage, and most of the times they won't.
2. The Can... this one i'm happy about, but the hardest one to do in my opinion. Duck Hunt's will almost always try to throw the can at you from above by shooting to it multiple times and then let it fall to you, you're best option is to roll backwards wait for it to hit the ground and then ftilt it or dsmash it, you will hit the can throw it away and luckily hitting the dog with it. Also if you hit the can and it's still on stage the dogs shots will make it go to the side you send it, but be aware he just need to hit it himself to change it's direction again. If he tries to hit you with it from the ground with constant shots you should wait for it to touch the ground to hit it. (Be Aware that if you hit it while his shooting at it it will explode to you, so max range and good timing are the Key.)
-Zero Suit Samus's Stun Gun no matter how charged it is, i'm happy about this one too.
There are some projectiles it doesn't work, like:
-Shiek's neutral b.
-Normal Link's charged arrows, boomerang, and bombs.
-Pit's and Dark Pit arrows.
Through what I've learned from these examples and my own practice. These seem like very effective way to not only block some long range projectiles, but also get into the mind of your opponent and screw with their confidence. Little Mac excels at making your opponent slip up through changing your style in how to approach them. As I was saying earlier: devolving your playstyle to rushdowns consisting of mainly his safeblockable attacks like fsmash and dash attacks makes him somewhat punishable through his repetitiveness.
BUT...
This can also be your greatest asset. I like to call them hard-changeups. Play however you'd like to play for whatever map you are on, or the MU that presents itself. Then aggressively change styles when you notice they're slowing down to Mac's speed. An example: Robins'. Our bane but also our greatest teaching tool. If a Robin is poking aggressively, the typical Mac gameplay is to approach cautiously and close the gap through Robin's spellweaving. Effective but hard to pull off depending on who/where you're fighting. What I've been able to tell, in most stock-oriented fights, simply leaving them to stew is the best case scenario. Get THEM to change their playstyle. And when that pendulum swings and Robin tries to get closer to hit you with a charged spell or a pillar of flame. Punish him. Anyways back to basics.
A side note while I'm thinking of it: The infamous Ftilt Special. Incredible amounts of endlag (the amount of time to recover to neutral state) and if used incorrectly has major potential to get you either self-destructed over the ledge left helpless, or just punched in the face for a whiffed haymaker, both not fun. I actually use it similarly to Dudly's Shortwing Blow (if any SF fans out there). I use my shield dodge at a time where the mid-range opponent wouldnt expect or to where it seems like it wouldn't assist. Example: Running at the opponent and about 4 lengths from your opponent (when they would chose to poke-stop your dash attack or otherwise keep from being dash-sMACked) dodge back THEN lunge with Ftilt+Special. The distance most of the time with practice puts the full fired swipe immediately on the opponent leaving very few frames for dodging or changing their tune. Plus the super-armor the lunge gives you can even dive through most projectiles! (Including Robins Mid-or-lower charge spell! (If this could be double-checked by testers(HMU I'll help))
Another use for it is it's incredibly horizontal movement. It reaches quite far and can completely change your direction mid-flight. I will use this often as a way to juke out of spells/projectiles mid-air or to even retreat from some AoE attacks that a simple dodge roll won't achieve. (This only works in a select few areas/MUs so your mileage may vary with any use of Ftilt + Special. CAREFUL USE IS BEST!)
Another breakdown that brought some great new combos to my gameplay and a quick reference for some skills provided by user: Feeojo
GOOD MOVES:
-dash + Usmash (quick to punish)
-dash + grab (mind game)
-dash + shield + Fsmash (if opponent is attacking)
-up-tilted Fsmash (combo into up special)
-down tilted Fsmash + Ftilt (deals more damage + safe on block at max range)
-FTilt (rack up damage + safe on block if max range)
-Jab (rack up damage)
COMBOS:
-(from 0%): grab - pummel twice - down throw (sends up) - dash Usmash or up special
-(low %): down tilt (stun) - forward tilt - up tilt or Usmash
-(20% +):down tilt + KO
STRATEGIES:
-opens up with jabs, tilts (armor or push back shield), and throws (Dont approach using smashes)
-use USmash vs short hops + anti air
-short hop KO uppercut (edge guard) / down tilt + KO uppercut
-Counter / dodge when in air/thrown off
-Roll dodging + dashing is a must
-Use super armor when edge guarding
-Side special (best aerial move) can be ended early by repressing
-activate neutral special before full charge
-use Fsmash during opponent attack (risk reward)
A few of these are common use skills, but some of the ideas Feeojo brings to the table I find myself working into my gameplay somewhat positively. As always with credited info YMMV but give 'em a shot and see if any pop up as useful to your style.
Now to a horse of a different color. COUNTER USAGE!
I feel like good counter usage is what sets most Mac's apart. I feel like this far exceeds some of the other counters in the game, (here's looking at you SHULK) and here is my reasoning. Mac is unarmed. Less animation = Less time. It takes very little time to pull off the counter and with the animation of his riposte being his entire arm can even help you block a edgeguard projectile and reach the ledge to grab for a close-call edge save. I want to state that even if the counter does not connect, the animation will go through even if hit with a projectile. Little Mac's Counter makes him INVULNVERABLE to the first thing hitting him. I have even countered Falcon Punches and Bowser Fire of all things with this ability.(Few ticks of burn damage through super armor but I'll take that over shield blocking full length breath attack haha)
I've gone over quite a bit, and would love this to turn into a discussion!
Some other tips and hints of note from other threads that seem to really hit well with me:
Vyous: "...you can f-smash raw out of little mac's run. It might be a good approach if you think you're opponent is going to try and poke you out, since you can beat their poke with the armor, and they might not expect it."
STiCKYBULL3TZ: "If you're really afraid of it (Mac's KO Punch) all you have to do is avoid Little Mac for 6 seconds after he gets it. Any damage he takes after that will kill his K.O. punch."
LightningLoops: "
- Run and pivot into F-tilt or grab. Add some variety to your dash attacks.
- On ledge, jump and immediately Down-B. Great punish for over-aggressive opponents.
- While edgeguarding, grab your opponent, pummel them but don't throw them. When they break free, catch them in the air with a F-smash or F-tilt.
- Press A twice, wait a moment, then press A. You get your two jabs, then the launcher. You can also jab twice, then grab.
- Up-smash has a sweet spot when close to the opponent. You'll notice when the opponent is launched with flames. "
Mimgrim: "Most of Mac's moves are safe on shield. And they shouldn't be able to shield moves like Ftilt, Dtilt, and Jab on reaction. Fsmash is also safe on block and does quite a bit of shield damage. Mix that up with grabs and those up with grabs and shield shouldn't be a problem. Due to the safeness of his moves on block, he is able to do shield pressure quite well. " ... "Just don't do it stupidly. :L "
STiCKYBULL3TZ: " Little Mac is good but don't let his power trick you into thinking you can do whatever you want. You have to play him like you would in a Punch-Out!! game. Find openings and punish. He can pretty much walk up to characters with no fear and punch them in the face."
And as the final bit of assistance I hope to give to all my other Mac-Attackers:
1. He has a walljump (LE GASP! Also... why?)
2. PLEASE look at this thread. Compiled by our Sir, Mr. Opossum:
tinylink(dot)net/m7wlq (Are You Ready For The Next Challenge?)(Sorry not past my ten posts but broken tinylink ftw)
This thread alone with bring a lot of wierd MU's against Mac that don't seem off at first but bring a LOAD of wonderful ideas to the table, in both who to possibly switch characters against, or at least how to combat them with the character you have.
Yet again, Thanks to all that have stuck it out this far, and if anyone can critique or discuss any ideas I have in person or any brought up by our other board members: Please! Go right ahead. We grow through fighting and talking about it. Smash On Macs!
I love how you called my projectiles thread a estellar post :D I don't think is that good but might be useful, and I'm a "her" but that does not bring into question here.
