Hey guys, Norr here. Here's some labbing results I got from looking into Ryu's options for hitting characters on the ledge from the ground .
Ryu's Downsmash is pretty reliable for hitting characters on ledge. That being said though, there is a catch.
1. Against most of the cast, Ryu must hit the Dsmash with his FOOT, not his leg. His leg's hitbox doesn't go low enough
2. Against 3 characters, Dsmash will NOT hit the enemy at any point of the hitbox.
The solution if you aren't good at spacing Ryu's Down Smash, is to use Hard down tilt.
H-Dtilt will hit, to my knowledge every character except Ganondorf and Sonic. And they will hit those characters at any range, as long as the foot reaches them
Fun fact about ledge hits:
On 21 characters, you can hit soft down tilt while they hold the ledge.
(Exact list is down below)
Soft down tilt can be a but finnicky like Down Smash, and for the characters with *'s beside their names, you may want to try it out in practice before implementing it in your gameplay.
Using soft down tilt is fun because of the Ledge Denial tech. They cannot grab the ledge for 50 frames after you hit them, and the hit has minimal knockback so they're still near the ledge. By doing this you effectively limit their options to just 3:
1. Up-B past the ledge
2. Jump over the ledge
3. Wait, fall, and then recover again.
The best part is if they try the jump option. If they try jumping, just spam soft down tilt again. BOOM. Now they only have 2 options.
Now, on the characters that cannot be hit by Soft Down Tilt off the ledge, if you want to use this trap, you CAN use hard down tilt. The only catch is they will have a bit more knockback, which will usually give them space to jump over you. This isn't always the case, but it is common.
Please debate any of this if you've found contradicting cases to what I've found, I'm just a lazy smash 4 player that recently picked up Ryu. Also I know the soft down tilt spiel is very Matchup specific, and not incredibly useful across the cast, but if someone's looking for extreme measures for optimization, this could help.
Characters that can be hit by Light Down Tilt, Hard Down Tilt and Down Smash (at any distance):
Mario
Luigi
Doctor Mario
Yoshi
Bowser Jr
DK
Game and Watch
Zero Suit Samus
Pikachu
Charizard
Jigglypuff
Olimar
Mewtwo
Rob*
Villager*
Ness**
Lucas**
Lucario***
King Dedede***
Wii Fit Trainer****
Bayonetta*****
* - Hitbox while hanging on ledge is deceiving. Can't hit their hands, you hit their heads instead.
** - Ness and Lucas' Idle animation on ledge can negate the use of light down tilt, probably a 50% chance of hitting
*** - Lucario and Dedede can only be hit by the foot of soft down tilt
**** - WFT is similar to Ness and Lucas, but it fluctuates more. If her head is up, you ca hit anything, if its down, you can only hit with the foot of Downsmash or Hard down tilt
***** Bayo is similar to Dedede and Lucario, but the spacing of Ryu's foot is really strict
Characters that can only be hit by Strong Down Tilt or Down Smash (At any Distance):
Bowser
Rosa
Wario
Falco
Ryu
Duck Hunt
Characters that can only be hit by Hard Down Tilt or the Foot hitbox of Down Smash:
Peach
Diddy
Little Mac
Link
Zelda
Sheik
Toon Link
Samus
Pit
Dark Pit
Palutena
Kirby
Fox
Captain Falcon
Shulk
PacMan
MegaMan
Roy
Marth
Lucina
Ike
Robin
Cloud
Corrin
Special Cases:
Greninja Can only be hit by Strong Down Tilt
Ganondorf and Sonic can't get hit by any grounded moves by Ryu
What do these lists mean?
-At the beginning of the post I theorized a ledge frame trap. The first list are all the characters susceptible to it. Now we know that its possible on 21 characters of the cast, mind that on 6 Characters its a bit risky whether or not you'll hit it.
-If you default using the foot of down smash at the ledge for punishing holding the ledge too long, there's only 3 characters that will not work on.
-If you aren't great at spacing down smash for this punish, hard down tilt is much more reliable, and doesn't have tricky spacing to land a hit. This attack also has the potential of starting the frame trap at lower percents if immediately followed by soft down tilts at the ledge
I think the reason why the foot of down smash is finicky in this experiment is because the foot's hitbox is swinging around in the downsmash from behind him, where with the Hard Downtilt to sweeps across the floor. More coverage I guess?
Ryu's Downsmash is pretty reliable for hitting characters on ledge. That being said though, there is a catch.
1. Against most of the cast, Ryu must hit the Dsmash with his FOOT, not his leg. His leg's hitbox doesn't go low enough
2. Against 3 characters, Dsmash will NOT hit the enemy at any point of the hitbox.
The solution if you aren't good at spacing Ryu's Down Smash, is to use Hard down tilt.
H-Dtilt will hit, to my knowledge every character except Ganondorf and Sonic. And they will hit those characters at any range, as long as the foot reaches them
Fun fact about ledge hits:
On 21 characters, you can hit soft down tilt while they hold the ledge.
(Exact list is down below)
Soft down tilt can be a but finnicky like Down Smash, and for the characters with *'s beside their names, you may want to try it out in practice before implementing it in your gameplay.
Using soft down tilt is fun because of the Ledge Denial tech. They cannot grab the ledge for 50 frames after you hit them, and the hit has minimal knockback so they're still near the ledge. By doing this you effectively limit their options to just 3:
1. Up-B past the ledge
2. Jump over the ledge
3. Wait, fall, and then recover again.
The best part is if they try the jump option. If they try jumping, just spam soft down tilt again. BOOM. Now they only have 2 options.
Now, on the characters that cannot be hit by Soft Down Tilt off the ledge, if you want to use this trap, you CAN use hard down tilt. The only catch is they will have a bit more knockback, which will usually give them space to jump over you. This isn't always the case, but it is common.
Please debate any of this if you've found contradicting cases to what I've found, I'm just a lazy smash 4 player that recently picked up Ryu. Also I know the soft down tilt spiel is very Matchup specific, and not incredibly useful across the cast, but if someone's looking for extreme measures for optimization, this could help.
Characters that can be hit by Light Down Tilt, Hard Down Tilt and Down Smash (at any distance):
MarioLuigiDoctor MarioYoshiBowser JrDKGame and WatchZero Suit SamusPikachuCharizardJigglypuffOlimarMewtwoRob*Villager*Ness**Lucas**Lucario***King Dedede***Wii Fit Trainer****Bayonetta****** - Hitbox while hanging on ledge is deceiving. Can't hit their hands, you hit their heads instead.
** - Ness and Lucas' Idle animation on ledge can negate the use of light down tilt, probably a 50% chance of hitting
*** - Lucario and Dedede can only be hit by the foot of soft down tilt
**** - WFT is similar to Ness and Lucas, but it fluctuates more. If her head is up, you ca hit anything, if its down, you can only hit with the foot of Downsmash or Hard down tilt
***** Bayo is similar to Dedede and Lucario, but the spacing of Ryu's foot is really strict
Characters that can only be hit by Strong Down Tilt or Down Smash (At any Distance):
BowserRosaWarioFalcoRyuDuck HuntCharacters that can only be hit by Hard Down Tilt or the Foot hitbox of Down Smash:
PeachDiddyLittle MacLinkZeldaSheikToon LinkSamusPitDark PitPalutenaKirbyFoxCaptain FalconShulkPacManMegaManRoyMarthLucinaIkeRobinCloudCorrinSpecial Cases:
Greninja Can only be hit by Strong Down TiltGanondorf and Sonic can't get hit by any grounded moves by RyuWhat do these lists mean?
-At the beginning of the post I theorized a ledge frame trap. The first list are all the characters susceptible to it. Now we know that its possible on 21 characters of the cast, mind that on 6 Characters its a bit risky whether or not you'll hit it.
-If you default using the foot of down smash at the ledge for punishing holding the ledge too long, there's only 3 characters that will not work on.
-If you aren't great at spacing down smash for this punish, hard down tilt is much more reliable, and doesn't have tricky spacing to land a hit. This attack also has the potential of starting the frame trap at lower percents if immediately followed by soft down tilts at the ledge
I think the reason why the foot of down smash is finicky in this experiment is because the foot's hitbox is swinging around in the downsmash from behind him, where with the Hard Downtilt to sweeps across the floor. More coverage I guess?