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Lets talk about Zard's offstage game

The Real Gamer

Smash Hero
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Lets get some discussion going on one of Zard's most underrated aspects: his offstage game. Zard has so many options to mess offstage opponents up that I truly believe he's one of the best at securing early kills and based on experience I feel like a lot of people aren't aware of his options. Keep note this is all very general, so when/where you use these tools is going to vary greatly depending on the MU.

It all starts with Flamethrower, which is such a great move just based on the fact that it messes up so many recoveries by itself. With FT you're able to angle the stream at about 245/135 degrees (think 9 and 3 o'clock on a clock) over the ledge which effectively puts a barrier of pain between the opponent and said ledge. Characters that are reliant on non tether/teleport recoveries to sweetspot the ledge (Falcon, Lucario, Rosa, Marth, Mario, Bowser, DK, etc) often end up getting messed up by this move since they have no choice but to try to recover high or hug the stage and recover low to avoid the stream, which plays right into Zards hands. If they don't they'll be eating anywhere from 5-15% damage while being put in an even worse position since the move effortlessly messes up their offstage positioning by pushing them downwards. A lot of people start to panic when they get caught in the stream... I can't count the number of times where someone will get caught in the stream, start mashing up b, and then miss the ledge sweetspot which leads to a free punish for Zard. A fullhop/shorthop FT also stuffs a lot of horizontal side b recoveries such as Diddy's, Spacie's, Falcon's, Luigi's, Little Mac's, etc... yeah FT covers a lot of ****. Avoid it by recovering high or hugging the stage and going low.

So if the opponent tries to recover low they're at risk of getting spiked by my personal favorite gimping tool: the almighty Dair. Dair straight up beats out or at least trades with the majority of the casts recoveries and with an extra mid air jump positioning yourself correctly isn't difficult at all. If you recover directly beneath Zard and lack invincibility frames/armor you're essentially leaving your stock at the mercy of the Zard player by hoping they mess up their timing. And even if Zard misses Dair has a lingering hitbox that can potentially stage spike at higher percentages. However, opponents can abuse the curved layout of certain stages such as Battlefield to hug the stage and sweetspot the ledge without being directly below Zard. But of course Zard has an option for this as well...

This is where Bair comes in. If the opponent recovers too close to the stage they're at risk being stage spiked by a very strong, very long runoff Bair. This is also great option against recoveries with strong vertical KO potential (ZSS and Zard for example) since Zard can safely attack them from a horizontal angle. One thing to note is that like all stage spikes it CAN be prevented with a well timed tech which means this is arguably the safest method of recovery from below Zard. Better to be stage spiked than Dair spiked in most cases.

So against characters that recover high? Lots of options here as well. He can challenge with a Fair, Bair, Uair (all will kill at higher percentages), or use his great speed to run underneath the opponent and up smash or up tilt before they can land safely, which is also a great option since they’re both disjointed hitboxes that often outspace anything most of the cast can throw out from beneath them while they’re airborne. In most cases you don’t want to be above a grounded Zard. Some recoveries also have enough land lag for Zard to punish with whatever (think Lucario, DK, and Bowser). My personal favorite is Flare Blitz if they're too far to reach otherwise. Nair is a good option that covers spotdoges well since the hitbox stays out so long, but the reward isn't nearly as great as the other moves since its so hard to sweespot with the tail.

But I left out what is arguably Zard's most powerful offstage option against opponents that recover high: DRAGON RUSH. I do not exaggerate when I say this move is GODLIKE as an offstage tool. It gimps easily and it gimps early. For those who don't know Dragon Rush acts similarly to Flare Blitz but the key difference is that it drags the opponent horizontally alongside Zard THEN applies knockback as opposed to simply applying knockback on contact. What makes this move great is that you can jump offstage, DR to challenge the opponent's recovery, drag them back towards the blastzone, jump again, then DR back to the stage safely! Here are a few examples of what the move looks like in action:
http://youtu.be/7YSJjQl7BHM?t=50s
http://youtu.be/qH053DojVS4?t=1m15s
http://youtu.be/jV9Vuo5Fb4U?t=30s
Although all of these vids were pre patch (DR recieved a damage nerf) I can confirm the move has not lost its utility as a great gimping tool in the slightest (I was able to KO a Bowser at 60% with it in an earlier match), so I imagine you could probably KO offstage opponents as early as around 40% when used properly. As if this move couldn't get ridiculous enough... if you miss the opponent with initial DR you can sometimes clip them with DR on your way back to the stage while they're recovering and stage spike them! Yes DR is THAT good people and if you use it properly you're going to make your opponent fear trying to recover high. Make them recover low so we can stage spike/Dair spike them instead. ^.^

There's one more option that's a bit more situational but it works! Zard's Fly has superarmor on startup and strong knockback, which means Zard has the ability to chase opponents deep offstage and punish their recovery with Fly... Yes Zard can literally up b the opponents up b for the kill. This is great for chasing someone far from the stage with a Fair or whatever, which forces them to airdodge. After they've committed to airdodging they're then open to losing to Fly since they're forced to recover afterwards, so basically if their recovery lacks armor or invincibility a well timed Fly will punish them hard for it. This will only kill at higher percentages since this mostly happens beneath the stage but at least it's another option that the opponent has to respect.

Summary:
-Flamethrower to cover the ledge
- Dair spike opponents who recover low
- Runnoff Bair to stage spike opponents who hug the stage
- Dragon Rush to challenge opponents who recover at or above the ledge
- Fair/Bair/Uair are also good options for recoveries above the ledge (Bair is probably the best option with its superior range and knockback)
- Nair to cover spotdodges, but the reward isn't as great as the above
- Remember that Fly has superarmor on startup and will beat out any recovery without armor or invincibility if timed right

That's a lot of options! Knowing when to use said options is the key to elevating our Zard play. Zard is a beast offstage so next time you send your opponent flying make sure you let them know it.

Any additional advice? Questions? Comments? Lets talk about it!
 
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RadianB

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 1, 2014
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223
Good summary, I pretty much do everything that you wrote except the Dragon Rush one since I don't play with customs.
I'd also say that Flare Blitz is a decent off stage tool too against low recoveries if you can aim it right as seen in that Sheik VS Charizard tourney vid. I've done it a few times when my opponent expects flamethrower and recovers low. I just jump off and Flare Blitz them during their UP Special, this obviously only works on stages with walls.
You can also use Flare Blitz as a safe way to grab the ledge and force your opponent off it (can't remember what this mechanic is called, trumphing or something?), this then leads to potential Dairs if you can read your opponent right.
 

Knee Smasher

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I believe that reading ledgejumps and punishing with Fair is worth a mention, as is grabbing the opponent as soon as they get up from the ledge and Forward Smashing, Fthrowing or (at higher %s) Dthrowing them back off the edge.
 

The Real Gamer

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I believe that reading ledgejumps and punishing with Fair is worth a mention, as is grabbing the opponent as soon as they get up from the ledge and Forward Smashing, Fthrowing or (at higher %s) Dthrowing them back off the edge.
Sorry I didn't make this clear but this was meant to discuss Zard's options to prevent the opponent from reaching the ledge in the first place.

I could include another section for Zard's best options when the opponent is at the ledge though.
 

-LzR-

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Stuff like a run off Nair is a free kill on Little Mac.

I'm really liking run off Nair, it's hard to miss and it send the opponents in a really good trajectory. Most of the time it doesn't lead up to a kill, but you can dive really deep with it and still make it back.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, Dair is amazing. In many matches I have gotten all of my kills with Dair simply but being ballsy about it.

I don't know about Dragon Rush because I haven't used it yet, but from the videos it sounds convincing. I'm going to a tournament this weekend where customs are allowed so I'll have to go and learn to abuse it.
Any tips on the Dragon Rush? Do I use it in similar situations like I would use Blitz?
 

YeahVeryeah

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Stuff like a run off Nair is a free kill on Little Mac.

I'm really liking run off Nair, it's hard to miss and it send the opponents in a really good trajectory. Most of the time it doesn't lead up to a kill, but you can dive really deep with it and still make it back.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, Dair is amazing. In many matches I have gotten all of my kills with Dair simply but being ballsy about it.

I don't know about Dragon Rush because I haven't used it yet, but from the videos it sounds convincing. I'm going to a tournament this weekend where customs are allowed so I'll have to go and learn to abuse it.
Any tips on the Dragon Rush? Do I use it in similar situations like I would use Blitz?
Well for one thing you can use it more liberally, that's the obvious part. If a player is familiar with the move, then they can shield it and turnaround grab as a solid counter, though I'd expect this isn't pubic knowledge atm.

You will miss the armor, as you'll clang with projectiles fb beats, but its still usable against projectile spam.

As for the offstage (you know, the topic of the thread)... if you they're high and falling, if they're medium and falling (but not a good time for fair), if they're low and you want to disrespect them with a deep dair... dragon rush dragon rush dragon rush. For many characters, their only moves to beat dragon rush will be smash attacks or powerful, charged projectiles; you'll know if they have the latter. rushing at them when they're offstage will pretty much either carry them back off, or force them to airdodge. if the latter, and they airdodge near the end of dragon rush, you can safely nair them... but at this point you gotta work hard to get back to ledge. Our aerial lag will come into play the longer w're out there, but 2 jumps dragon rush and fly should be enough to get back from moderately deep situations.
 

-LzR-

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So it doesn't have armor? Wasn't that the whole point of Blitz. I guess the lack of self harm makes it worth it.
 

The Real Gamer

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Any tips on the Dragon Rush? Do I use it in similar situations like I would use Blitz?
Pros of D Rush over Flare Bliz:
1) Much safer on block since you suffer no recoil + the move goes straight through shields. If someone is standing by the ledge you can easily DR through their shield and avoid getting punished (in most cases) by recovering back onto the stage.
2) Less endlag than Flare Blitz (you can literally combo a DR into a Jab at low percentages).
3) Much stronger/safer offstage tool since it drags the opponent towards the blastzone before applying knockback, plus it covers less horizontal distance so you don't need to worry about launching yourself straight into the blastzone when using it.

Pros of Flare Blitz over DR:
1) Superarmor to pierce through most projectiles and attacks.
2) Much stronger damage output and knockback on hit (19% as opposed to DR's 11% or lower since its a multi hit attack)
3) Covers more horizontal distance

How they're similar:
1) Both make great mid range whiff/endlag punishing tools.
2) Both can be used as recovery options

Basically you can use DR similarly to FB by safely punishing whiffed attacks from midrange and such but the key difference is that you can use it a bit more liberally. Other than that their differences are pretty apparent. Just remember that it doesn't have armor so it can be punished by projectiles and well timed attacks. The main sell of DR over FB is the offstage gimp opportunities it provides.
 
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Cornstalk

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I've had some interesting successes with Fire Fang (instead of Flame Thrower).

A friend is really good at air dodging, so catching him in Dragon Rush off stage becomes harder and more predictable from me as the match goes on. Fire Fang provides an interesting mix up, as I can start the breath animation to cause him to twitch react air dodge. Then all I have to do is watch the spacing to release and get a nice hit with the bite, sending him back out towards the blast zone.

I've also had a few cases catching an edge jump or edge roll by properly predicting with Fire Fang. The advantage comes from being able to stall the final hit. For example, D-Smashing near the edge expecting a roll could miss if they delay or you simply time it wrong that it hits during invulnerable frames. Fire Fang can delay until you can visually confirm that it will land based on the opponents animations.

It's also really obnoxious landing on a shielding opponent, particularly ones with their backs to the edge. If they try to act too soon out of shield, they either get pushed off the edge (by dropping the shield) or get chomped in the face. The best then can do is stand there and wait for the game to push Charizard away. At which point some characters are still at a moment of awkward approach because of poor reach and fire fang still breathing a hit box. It's especially funny when they try to roll behind just as Charizard gets pushed back and ends up right in the bite.
 
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