Legal: Is Nintendo commiting a crime?

[Lvl99Gamer]

Ok so some of you may have heard that they're cutting even MORE content from the new Fire Emblem game.

My question is: Is cutting content and selling/marketing it as the same product that is sold elsewhere (Japan) illegal? I know its their product, it could however be seen as false advertising right?

 

[GreenMonkey]

Since it's slight changes due to different markets and audiences, Nintendo just passes it off as some simple "localization" tweaks. Although this does cut down on the content for other regions while Japan gets everything, it's not as bad as it seems. Also, due to the nature of this thread discussing about cut content and such, please avert your eyes if you want to avoid any spoilers~

I've heard rumors circling around about the N.A. release of Fates, mainly concerning the controversial topic of spiking Soleil's drink, and the removal of the face-rubbing/FE Amie feature. If both of these rumors are proven to be true, the former is simply a change in supports. NoA isn't removing any supports; they're just replacing some very, very ill-written material with hopefully better supports.

With the latter, unless you're a creepy pervert who likes to pet people's faces and listen to them say... some rather interesting lines, I don't think this will be missed very much. Granted, it's unfair for Nintendo to remove an entire feature of the game just based off of different regions, but I suppose it isn't enough to warrant a court case or anything of that degree.

Also, I believe most of these tweaks were put in place to lower the game's rating. In Japan, iirc, the games were rated for 15yrs+, while Fire Emblem games here are traditionally Teen (13yrs+). To reduce the game's rating, they probably took some of the more mature content out.

 

[DarkAuraful]

I wouldn't really go that far to say it's illegal, even though that's a feature that's completely optional. I'll just go ahead with the safe assumption that they're trying to make the game more appropriate for their target audience.

Even though there may be some questionable things in the game still present. The character design particularly for example.

I'm not gonna complain though. But I better not expect any whining from FE fans because back when face rubbing was introduced, they straight up ranted about that feature so much to the point where they began questioning if Fire Emblem has any dignity left as a series.

Some of the character designs were bad enough for them, and they did not tolerate that well.

 

[Kurri ★]

No it's not. It's called localization. Are Japanese players getting ripped off because games get released in the west with dubs and subs? No, it's part of the localization process. These features typically don't appeal to Western players.

 

[Lvl99Gamer]

No it's not. It's called localization. Are Japanese players getting ripped off because games get released in the west with dubs and subs? No, it's part of the localization process. These features typically don't appeal to Western players.

Localization means translating, at most changing things to appeal to a wider audience (spiking a drink as an example). What they're doing here however is is straight up removing content and selling it full-price, marketing it as the same product, hence the false advertising part.

Since it's slight changes due to different markets and audiences, Nintendo just passes it off as some simple "localization" tweaks. Although this does cut down on the content for other regions while Japan gets everything, it's not as bad as it seems. Also, due to the nature of this thread discussing about cut content and such, please avert your eyes if you want to avoid any spoilers~

I've heard rumors circling around about the N.A. release of Fates, mainly concerning the controversial topic of spiking Soleil's drink, and the removal of the face-rubbing/FE Amie feature. If both of these rumors are proven to be true, the former is simply a change in supports. NoA isn't removing any supports; they're just replacing some very, very ill-written material with hopefully better supports.

With the latter, unless you're a creepy pervert who likes to pet people's faces and listen to them say... some rather interesting lines, I don't think this will be missed very much. Granted, it's unfair for Nintendo to remove an entire feature of the game just based off of different regions, but I suppose it isn't enough to warrant a court case or anything of that degree.

Also, I believe most of these tweaks were put in place to lower the game's rating. In Japan, iirc, the games were rated for 15yrs+, while Fire Emblem games here are traditionally Teen (13yrs+). To reduce the game's rating, they probably took some of the more mature content out.

Hey if they decide to just change the supports to be more tasteful, I'm 100 percent fine with that, that falls within the realm of localization. What they're doing here is straight up removing content, and while censoring isn't illegal they shouldn't be allowed to market it as the same product sold elsewhere. Rather, Fire Emblem Fates: Lite edition or whatever.

 

[Kurri ★]

Localization means translating, at most changing things to appeal to a wider audience (spiking a drink as an example). What they're doing here however is is straight up removing content and selling it full-price, marketing it as the same product, hence the false advertising part.



Hey if they decide to just change the supports to be more tasteful, I'm 100 percent fine with that, that falls within the realm of localization. What they're doing here is straight up removing content, and while censoring isn't illegal they shouldn't be allowed to market it as the same product sold elsewhere. Rather, Fire Emblem Fates: Lite edition or whatever.

Translation is ONE PART of localization. There's much more to adapting a product to suit the needs and views of a different culture, and Nintendo is not the first, nor the last, nor even the most drastic when it comes to localization of their products.

Super Mario Bros 2 was a completely different game when it hit the West, yet still marketed as the same thing.

The Japanese release of Fallout 3, the entire side quest to nuke Megaton was taken out, yet still marketed the same.

Resident Evil 4, a Japanese game, doesn't have gory headshots in the Japanese release, yet has gore elsewhere. And it was still marketed the same.

It's not less of a product, it's localization. If you're so adamant about having this content, learn Japanese and import a Japanese copy.

 

[radio silent]

Hey if they decide to just change the supports to be more tasteful, I'm 100 percent fine with that, that falls within the realm of localization. What they're doing here is straight up removing content, and while censoring isn't illegal they shouldn't be allowed to market it as the same product sold elsewhere. Rather, Fire Emblem Fates: Lite edition or whatever.

This absolutely falls within the realm of localization. Whether it's a bad localization or not is up to you, but you have to realize that there's more to localization than straight translation.

Besides, it was a completely optional feature (as I understand it), and didn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. This isn't a Persona 1 situation where they cut out like, half the game in the West.

My question is: Is cutting content and selling/marketing it as the same product that is sold elsewhere (Japan) illegal? I know its their product, it could however be seen as false advertising right?

Did they ever actually advertise this feature outside of Japanese trailers? Even if they did, games are always subject to change before release. That's why they put disclaimers at the start of every game demo ever.

 

[Teran]

No, it's not a crime. It's like saying Nestle are committing crimes for selling peanut butter chocolate bars in some regions and not in others.

Cutting content for localisation is something that's been done since the beginning. All those games on Nintendo consoles you played as a kid had lots of localisation cuts, and these cuts are made because of their assessment of the market they're releasing too. Maybe they just feel there's going to be too much PR trouble from the west with the whole waifu petting and magic potion storyline.

 

[Lvl99Gamer]

.

It's not less of a product, it's localization. If you're so adamant about having this content, learn Japanese and import a Japanese copy.

I... I've been attending a Japanese education (I believe the american term is College? Always forget, never sure) for the past 2 and a half years for this very reason ... Ok maybe not just that reason but it sure helps.

HOWEVER, just because it affects me less than others doesn't mean I should shrug and let others deal with it.
Although you've all made it clear Nintendo can just do whatever the hell it wants and get away with it legally so that's that then I guess.

 

[Kurri ★]

I... I've been attending a Japanese education (I believe the american term is College? Always forget, never sure) for the past 2 and a half years for this very reason ... Ok maybe not just that reason but it sure helps.

HOWEVER, just because it affects me less than others doesn't mean I should shrug and let others deal with it.
Although you've all made it clear Nintendo can just do whatever the hell it wants and get away with it legally so that's that then I guess.

The way you worded that tells me you still don't get it. Localization isn't done so companies can give regions "less of a product" for the same price, it's done because they acknowledge the cultural differences between different regions. It's not even that hard to figure out that FE fans in the West are bothered by the face rubbing mini-game even if it's optional, and iirc, something about a magic potion being extremely distasteful. They won't fly here, so Nintendo removes it to avoid any potential problems, such as lowered sales, worse PR, or whatever else.

 

[Lvl99Gamer]

The way you worded that tells me you still don't get it. Localization isn't done so companies can give regions "less of a product" for the same price, it's done because they acknowledge the cultural differences between different regions. It's not even that hard to figure out that FE fans in the West are bothered by the face rubbing mini-game even if it's optional, and iirc, something about a magic potion being extremely distasteful. They won't fly here, so Nintendo removes it to avoid any potential problems, such as lowered sales, worse PR, or whatever else.

I guess I do have trouble understanding it, I've actually had multiple classes on both localization and legal issues (edit:European laws) for the past years but I still can't wrap my head around all this...
My teacher defined localization as *loosely translated* "the altering and editing of content to improve a products reception in a certain region" but I was taught nothing about the removal of content.

All I can see is selling a "smaller, arguably less complete" product and advertising it as the full package that's being sold elsewhere. I know this was done a million time in the past though it was much harder for this kind of information to spread.
Though if there's anything I've learned about law it's that big corporations are nigh untouchable and they're definitely in a legal safe zone to pull this off.

 

[Kurri ★]

Removal of content falls under "altering and editing". And again, it's not a lesser package. Nintendo never advertised in the West that it'll get that content.

Adding content is also part of localization. Jet Set Radio had two extra levels in the Western release because Sega thought levels inspired by US locations would help with sales. Granted, Japan got a re-release of the game with the added content, but in no way was Japan ever sold "less of a product" the first time through.

 

[finalark]

It's not even that hard to figure out that FE fans in the West are bothered by the face rubbing mini-game even if it's optional, and iirc, something about a magic potion being extremely distasteful. They won't fly here, so Nintendo removes it to avoid any potential problems, such as lowered sales, worse PR, or whatever else.

Pretty much this. With only one or two exceptions, most people I've talked to (these people being Americans, since I live in America obviously) find the idea of rubbing anime character's face to get them to like you more to be off-putting rather than charming.

Removing the feature isn't false advertising. There's a reason why before every trailer and every demo there's teeny tiny baby text
letting you know it's all subject to change.

Although this is the first I've heard about a distasteful potion.

 

[LancerStaff]

There's been cut content, for one reason or another, since the NES days...

Actually, before. The Shining I believe (not a movie fan okay?) had about 15 minutes chopped off the ending after it was shipped to theaters.

It's not illegal whatsoever, and honestly the game's better off without the animu garbage.

 

[Kurri ★]

Pretty much this. With only one or two exceptions, most people I've talked to (these people being Americans, since I live in America obviously) find the idea of rubbing anime character's face to get them to like you more to be off-putting rather than charming.

Removing the feature isn't false advertising. There's a reason why before every trailer and every demo there's teeny tiny baby text
letting you know it's all subject to change.

Although this is the first I've heard about a distasteful potion.

Looked into it. Something about "spiking" someone's drink with a magic powder. It used as a way to help another character, but spiking a drink isn't something viewed fondly here.

 

[Lvl99Gamer]

There's been cut content, for one reason or another, since the NES days...

Actually, before. The Shining I believe (not a movie fan okay?) had about 15 minutes chopped off the ending after it was shipped to theaters.

It's not illegal whatsoever, and honestly the game's better off without the animu garbage.

The content itself shouldn't matter though, whether people find it off-putting or not. I've been a fan of FE long before awakening yet I can't use that as argument in favor of "animu garbage" (had to doublecheck this quote was really yours, with all the kid Icarus on your profile and such). Sigh, something inside me kinda snaps when other decide what I can or cannot see (you should see me rage on censoring from irl, I've been told it's exciting to watch)

Fighting against this type of thing is always hard though, while in theory everyone is against cutting content, many don't care if they didn't care about the content in the first place thinking "Well, it doesn't affect me so whatever"

 

[Shiida]

i didn't even read op but no

 

[Buffoon]

Depends on how much they're cutting out, I'm fine with the mini-game being cut, provided that the rest of the game is still the same.

 

[Minato]

Cut playable content/extras usual suck, but it happens sometimes.

And no, it's not illegal. Nintendo and IS has the rights to the property, and they haven't falsely advertised all these features specifically for the US either. If they did push advertising the affection minigame for the US, show it on a Treehouse stream, and then pulled it right before release, it could be seen as false advertising. Still wouldn't be illegal though.

 

[Zink Imp]

Cut playable content/extras usual suck, but it happens sometimes.

And no, it's not illegal. Nintendo and IS has the rights to the property, and they haven't falsely advertised all these features specifically for the US either. If they did push advertising the affection minigame for the US, show it on a Treehouse stream, and then pulled it right before release, it could be seen as false advertising. Still wouldn't be illegal though.

Even then, there's a chance that they wouldn't be in trouble. Usually game promotions have disclaimers about retail release can differ from streams and such forth.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I'm afraid I'm going to say something that might start some nasty arguments.
Isn't this censoring?
Just where do we draw the line between a localization change and a censor?
You know, censoring! That thing we used to do back when the Church used to rule the world! I thought we should have gotten over that after Mortal Kombat, but sadly no.
Oh wait. Mortal Kombat is violence. This isn't violence.
Because, apparently, commiting acts against humanity in GTA is fine, yet patting a woman is not.
Stay classy, western society.

 

[Minato]

It's not really censorship in the strictest sense. The legal definition of censorship is an outside authority restricting whatever speech or content it is. But some people tend to use it in the broadest sense which makes things confusing.

 

[LancerStaff]

Considering even Japan recoiled in disgust it's for the best it's cut.

 

[Kurri ★]

Considering even Japan recoiled in disgust it's for the best it's cut.

Did they really?

The feature was probably meant solely for Otakus since they spend a ton on this kind of stuff. I can't see Nintendo developing the feature for any other reason, I mean, it has little effect on the actual game right?

 

[finalark]

The feature was probably meant solely for Otakus since they spend a ton on this kind of stuff. I can't see Nintendo developing the feature for any other reason, I mean, it has little effect on the actual game right?

The research I've done has revealed that it actually has no effect on the game. It's pretty much just there for waifu shenanigans.

 

[Kurri ★]

The research I've done has revealed that is actually has no effect on the game. It's pretty much just there for waifu shenanigans.

Which only makes me feel like the feature was always planned to be removed for outside markets. It's literally just meant to pander to Otakus

 

[finalark]

Which only makes me feel like the feature was always planned to be removed for outside markets. It's literally just meant to pander to Otakus

Yeah, pretty much. I know there's a lot of people who will mourn it, but given how much backlash the anime community gets these days I'm really not surprised it's gone.

 

[Minato]

The research I've done has revealed that it actually has no effect on the game. It's pretty much just there for waifu shenanigans.

It actually helps makes things easier for ranking up supports. Without it, it's going to be harder unless they tweak some things. Especially when you want to raise support for characters that aren't really all that great in battle.

 

[LancerStaff]

Sakurai commented on how silly it was to complain about the feature... Although I think the complaints were about Fire Emblem becoming Otaku Emblem between that, the "staring at your s-support with just their undies" feature, the more explicit s-supports with myunit, the "underwear weapons" that would leave your target with just that... Okay, I could be here a while.

Since the gameplay and story side isn't exactly special either (and the third story being on-cart DLC, meaning it was entirely leaked before the official Japanese launch of the game itself and also was underwhelming) people weren't too happy with the additions. Or Corrin in Smash.