Ledge refresh

[reverie2]

Does anyone know when fox is hanging on the ledge, and immediately drops down fast fall, double jump and grab ledge, is it fully invincible? It should not matter if you double jump immediately and then fall afterwards, opposed to fall for a bit and then double jump right? What about other characters like marth (which you see m2k do all the time) and falco/falcon?

 

[Dark Byte]

Not sure of the exact number of frames, but there's definitely a window where you are not invincible before you grab the ledge again. M2k successfully does it with marth because he's a pro. If you do not time your regrab very carefully your oppenent can easily run in with something and kill you in between the time you double jump and when you grab the ledge.

 

[Touhou Flandre Scarlet]

Fox flame-stall (Up-B) Is truly invincible. Near frame perfect (2-3 frame window) fastfall from ledge was 2 frames of vulnerability and if you were a little off it could be around 4 frames. Marth was also around 2-4 frames with Up-B and fastfall double jump. Falcon has a possibly frame perfect 1 frame vulnerability but human error could make you have more for up-b was really bad at about 28-34 frames. Falco up-B was the same as Fox and double jump was was also the same (what a surprise) although the double jump timing was very different. Sheik Up-B has multiple fully invincible options and double jump was the same as everyone except Falcon. Ganon is rather well known for having a truly invincible fastfall double jump but Up-B like Falcon is bad.

Edit: As for the difference between instant double jump vs falling first is that on an instant double jump you will most likely reach the ledge later (making you more vulnerable) as you can't fast fall until you reach the peak of your jump but when falling down you can jump at any point.

 

[Dolla Pills]

Yeah the reason m2k is so successful on the ledge is because of his opponents mess up he converts very well and also people are scared of him. You have to Hax dash to stay invincible as Marth, Falcon, and several other characters (and as Fox/Falco up b stall as previously stated)

 

[reverie2]

Fox flame-stall (Up-B) Is truly invincible. Near frame perfect (2-3 frame window) fastfall from ledge was 2 frames of vulnerability and if you were a little off it could be around 4 frames. Marth was also around 2-4 frames with Up-B and fastfall double jump. Falcon has a possibly frame perfect 1 frame vulnerability but human error could make you have more for up-b was really bad at about 28-34 frames. Falco up-B was the same as Fox and double jump was was also the same (what a surprise) although the double jump timing was very different. Sheik Up-B has multiple fully invincible options and double jump was the same as everyone except Falcon. Ganon is rather well known for having a truly invincible fastfall double jump but Up-B like Falcon is bad.

Edit: As for the difference between instant double jump vs falling first is that on an instant double jump you will most likely reach the ledge later (making you more vulnerable) as you can't fast fall until you reach the peak of your jump but when falling down you can jump at any point.

Are you sure about the last bit? If you instantly double jump, you'll fast fall after you reach the peak of jump for roughly 1 double jump distance. If you wait to double jump, you're fast falling for roughly 1 double jump distance. It seems like you're fast falling the same # of frames. Also, do you have a source where you're finding the exact # of frames of vulnerability

 

[Touhou Flandre Scarlet]

My source is using the collision Bubbles from the debug menu and personally TASing for all of these. I could make a video tomorrow or Tuesday if you want. I also will test jump vs fast fall soon but I am away from my computer for the moment.