Laser and Firefox spamming Fox, and other questions

[Hyperion]

Hey, everyone. My friend just picked up Fox a couple weeks ago, and I played him for the first time a few days back as Marth. He doesn't know how to L-cancel, shorthop, or wavedash (although he prety much has teching perfected), and he rolls constantly, but scarily enough, he comes closer to beating me than any of my other friends. On FD, he sometimes does beat me. Of course, even though I've only been using advanced techniques for a month, I can't have THAT happening . So, I have a few questions about how to beat his tactics.

1. Any time I have him in the air, he uses his Up-B, which completely kills my combo. He could go anywhere, and if I go up to hit him, I usually end up getting hit and comboed a bit. Fox is so quick that even after Firefox I usually don't have time to grab him before he rolls away. What am I supposed to do?

2. Obviously, the lasers make me approach Fox. What's the best way to do this? When I come from the air, he always grabs me or up-smashes me, then pulls a Uair combo. When I come from the ground, he can usually F-smash me a couple times because Fox is so fast. How do I approach him?

And now, a couple of miscellaneous questions:

3. What exactly is DI? I thought it was just pressing a direction in midair any time after being attacked to guide your character that way. Easy. But everybody always talks about how newbies mess up on DI; I've used this since the very beginning. This leads me to believe that I'm doing something else. Also, the DI guide says it is NOT aerial control, whatever that is (sounds like what I'm doing).

4. I know how to dash dance, but it never seems to help me. My friends just run up and hit me in the middle of it. How far away should you be fro an opponent to DD? How fast should you press the control stick? I don't know whether the area of my DD should be small or large. Could someone just show me a video of a Marth who uses it well?

Thanks in advance!

 

[SOPF]

Well, as to your first question, at the beginning of Fox's firefox attack he is suspended in the air for a moment. If you attack the Fox during those moments of suspension you stop his firefox attack and can continue comboingb ut if you can't stop him in time and you know he's going to come at you then you should either roll or WD out of the way of the attack and F-smash or start a combo or counter depending on which you believe will work best.
As to your second question, I think there was a thread about approaching Fox but I may be mistaken. look it up and see if anything comes up.

 

[Imperial Wraith]

Only two things you need to do really. Chaingrab him, use U-tilts at around 27%. And space your fairs. You shouldn't really be getting U-smashed if you space a fair correctly (so it tippers).

And as SOPF said, attacking him in his firfox startup time will cancel it, and leave you free to combo. Look at Emblem Lords thread on how to deal with Falcos lazers, and take out the bits relevent to fox .

Now fer yer questions.

1. Di IS where you point the controller in a certain direction in Mid Air. The reason people say noobs mess it up, as they dont really know where to DI to. For example, if you DI a Marth's Fthrow towards him, you'll get Fsmashed. If you Di away, you won't. Also, Many newer players don't know how to Di smashes. If your knocked off the stage, DI perpendicular to your trajectory. Its just simple things that allow you to escape being comboed.

2. Dashdancing is godly. You should DD just so your weaving in and out of his attackrange, possibly a little further . (Use whatever speed suits you, I prefer faster DDing though). DDing should set you up nicely for a JC grab, and you can chain that spacies a$$ to at least 30%.

 

[Hyperion]

Thanks. I found that approaching Fox thread (I would have found it earlier, but this forums always says there are no results when I do a search for Fox; I think it means to say I need a longer term or something), and it was useful.

Does anyone know the last questions?

 

[thebluedeath1000]

not always the case my friend

Imperial wraith, sometimes di-ing toward marth is a good idea due to the fact he WILL tipper you if you di away with certain characters. Don't try to define doing away as the same thing against marth...unless you're another marth or abit higher than low %. there really isn't a safe thing to do after a grab. Peach is a good example..she di's toward, she either gets weak f-smashed or re-grabbed...she di-es away, she gets tippered....

he doesn't need to be working on the jc grab just yet, he needs to be focusing on the basics and working his way up.

 

[Hyperion]

Thanks again. By the way, BlueDeath, I already have JCed grabs down. I pretty much never do a dashing grab anymore.

 

[Eaode]

Dont just DD mindlessly. the point is to fake them out, not DD there and confuse them xD

 

[metroid1117]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iROxXhBIzuU

Here's your inspiration for dashdancing .

Anyway, against a Fox like that, you can try reading him and just running in with a Counter if you know he's going to FSmash you. Just do it so that he'll be more aware of how predictable he is; from there, you'll have more opportunities to do stuff. Another thing you can do is just run up to him, crouch, then land a tipped FSmash (easily done by crouching and using the C-stick to FSmash). If he's up in the air, bait him into using Firefox by just jumping up towards him and then fastfalling to the ground. You can then wait for him to land (or dodge if he comes at you) and FSmash him after.

 

[Hyperion]

I have just a couple more questions on the finer points of dashing.

1. When you dash dance, do you go directly from left to right, or do you let go of the control stick and let it go to neutral for a second? Do you hold left and right, or just mash that direction?

2. How do you move the control stick to Fox Trot (similar question to the one above this)? I always end up going SLOWER than the normal dash.

 

[Hyperion]

Sorry, double post.

 

[SOPF]

In order to dash dance you go directly from left to rigth or vice versa. You can let go of the control stick let it get neutral and then move it to alternate direction if you want but it's more work.
To fox trot, you press the controlstick in the direction you want to go then once the dash animation finishes press down and then back towards the direction you're running in. Repeat this process for every dash animation until you get where you want to go.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

hyperion, you missed my point.

I wasn't saying you couldn't jc grabs but you're a new player..you're fresh and not very knowing yet.

You need to develop that sense for the game before you worry that much about things like jc grabbing...l-canceling and wavedashing are far more important, thats the only things you need before you start to get the hang of competitive fighting.

Like what points your foes are vunerable in and what points you are weak in..etc...

Judging by your opening post, you're a very new smasher to this and you really haven't learned that feeling yet so I was just saying, I'd be more onto experience than anything.

Jc-ing grabs are great but it should be a light focus, technical play can only go so far with marth.

The fact a fox is nearly beating you with no l-canceling or anything of the sort is all the reason you need to be focusing more on getting your smash sense about you. Marth can murder noob foxes with his chaingrabbing...

ah...'smash sense" thats a good term...if no one has coined it yet, I am

 

[Pye]

As Marth, don't forget about your reach. If Fox is charging a firefox in midair to escape, it's not a problem at all for you to hit him out of it with any attack you have and not trade hits. You could also just let him firefox. Stand in the area with the most open space for him to go and hold up your shield. if he goes at you, you shield it, then wavedash out of shield and grab him. If he goes anywhere else, a wavedash out of shield will get you to his landing place before he does, and you can grab him there. Also, if he likes to roll after he lands, wait for that roll and grab him when he comes out of it. Which way does he roll? Away from you? Ok, when he lands, run at him and crouch. He'll roll away from you, then just run after him and grab him then. If he rolls into you, that's where dashdancing comes in handy. Run at him, then dashdance back when he rolls and grab.

By the way, I feel I should clarify something about DI: Like you said, it isn't air control, which is what you discribed in your first post. DI is inputted BEFORE you are hit, not after. For example, you are Fox playing against a Marth, and you just missed a tech. You know exactly what's going to happen, right? You're probably about to take an fsmash. So what you do is tilt the control stick up, so that when he fsmashes you, most of the momentum becomes vertical instead of horizontal. You go higher, and not as far, so you have a better chance of surviving the hit...blah blah blah.

But you cannot input DI after beeing hit! If Marth fsmashes you before you tilt the control stick, that's it. You didn't DI the attack, and there's nothing you can do about it now except hope you can still recover.

As for foxtrotting, I'm pretty sure you can fox trot without pressing down in between each one, but it's like shifting without a clutch: hard to do, and if you screw up, it's going to cost you.

 

[Hyperion]

Pye, I thought that was ASDI... Could someone clarify?

 

[Imperial Wraith]

Imperial wraith, sometimes di-ing toward marth is a good idea due to the fact he WILL tipper you if you di away with certain characters. Don't try to define doing away as the same thing against marth...unless you're another marth or abit higher than low %. there really isn't a safe thing to do after a grab. Peach is a good example..she di's toward, she either gets weak f-smashed or re-grabbed...she di-es away, she gets tippered....

he doesn't need to be working on the jc grab just yet, he needs to be focusing on the basics and working his way up.

Ahhh I didn't know that xD. Thanks much tbd, I'm still a little nooby on DI :embarrass.