Landing Bowser's Forward Smash.

[EarthBound18]

How do you properly set up this move with out a broken shield stun? I never land it properly without the opponent just shielding it or rolling pass me while I do it. Plus it has bad end lag, properly the laggiest foward smash in the game if I am (mistaken tell me which is) then I get punished hard for it.

 

[Infinite901]

Get dem reads. Also it's possible to land on someone using a high-commitment move, but that's a bit harder to land.

Mostly it's the reads.

 

[Big Sean]

I personally use the move once every 3 games or so, and i've seen other Bowsers use the move a lot more successfully then me, so these aren't all the setups you can get. Here are the rare situations I try to use it in:

* If I know they will roll behind me
* If you read a ledge getup->shield/spotdodge. The timing here is difficult but i'll try it sometimes
* If you read a ledge get up attack. This one is super easy but the problem is you need to be far to not get hit by the attack, and also close enough for them to think they can hit you. So like the only times I've hit this is when I dash towards the edge, stop before attack range, and then immediately forward smash
* You are on the edge and read a roll. This one is a piece of cake and I get this one all the time.
* You are dashing towards someone and read a spot dodge. This one is ballsy. I usually prefer to do an up smash because you have two hits in case you mistime the first one.
* tech chasing especially if you think they will attack out of a missed tech.
* if someone is perfectly spaced from you to hit them with the just the tip of the feet, i sometimes do a YOLO fsmash. Especially if you are a playing a heavy "footsie" type opponent and they happen to forget that spacing isn't exactly safe. People will just throw out pokes so it's kind of a frame trap.
* punishing incredibly slow moves. See http://smashboards.com/threads/deal-with-it-a-guide-to-punishing-wip.381907/ for a parital list of moves you can fsmash
* punishing landings, especially if they mispace an unsafe aerial.
* punishing ledge jumps. This one is awesome, a lot of people are kind addicted to do like a fair from the ledge or something
* punishing opponents who don't ledge snap. I've punished so many shulks and luigis like this. Ive even shielded shulk's up b on the ledge and had enough time to fsmash them.
* i've seen people like mr. eh do jab1->fsmash, but i'm not crazy enough to do that.
* one option that i don't use as much as i should but i'm trying to make it my bread and butter is pivot fsmash. if you know they are going for a dash grab or something you can often pivot and start your fsmash before they've even committed to their grab.

so yeah. Even with this giant list, i barely use it. It's hard to get reads that I feel I want to commit THAT hard to.

 

[Uncle]

^ This, all of this is right.

Also, you can get creative and launch a FSmash out of nowhere after landing with any of our side B specials. It gets even more hilarious if you land in one direction, and then immediately pivot FSmash. They are viable mindgames, but they should be used sparingly like all other hard commitment maneuvers.

One other thing that needs to be remembered is that Bowser's legs are intangible during FSmash. You'd be surprised at what you can beat out with it. I've even hit DK out of his Kong Cyclone a few times with it! It was during the non-armored/non-invincible frames, of course.

 

[Zigsta]

Jab > fsmash is an awesome mixup. Sometimes I also run through an opponent and then turnaround fsmash them.

 

[Karsticles]

Jab > fsmash is an awesome mixup. Sometimes I also run through an opponent and then turnaround fsmash them.

Isn't it just inferior to Jab > Down B in most cases?

 

[MrEh]

Isn't it just inferior to Jab > Down B in most cases?

Beats spot dodges. That's the point.

 

[MagiusNecros]

People scream obscenities if I Dash Slash past them and they think I can't act again and start to chase me and receive the Dropkick of their doom.

If you condition them to fear your Bowser Bomb they will probably spotdodge out of fear so Jab > Dropkick becomes viable.

And even if your dropkick misses it still scares the crap out of people.

Though Dropkick has a few weaknesses. It can be shielded, if you miss you are wide open, oh and if your opponent is smart they can grab you right out of your move before the attack comes out.

 

[Volimutt]

Also between low to midish % I find SH f-air combos into F-smash provided they don't tech the fall. I've pulled it off quite a few times.

This is one I did like a week ago.

 

[Big Sean]

I've also gotten fair->fsmash quite a few times. The only problem is that you have to start the fsmash before you know they will miss their tech. Most people don't know the fair tech timing so it happens more than you think, but still not often enough that I will pull it out in a tournament game.

 

[raromero89]

This one is a little situational, but I use it about every 2 matches.
If the opponent rolls backwards toward the ledge, I will Dair so that the splash hotbox knocks them off. Immediately FSmash and you can usually catch the opponent as they instinctively jump to recover.
This works for me about 90% of the time, usually for a stock.

 

[pitfall356]

* punishing ledge jumps. This one is awesome, a lot of people are kind addicted to do like a fair from the ledge or something

I tend to throw out dair and dunk them instead, although it doesn't land often enough. I'll try out more fsmash!

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Fsmash takes exactly twice as long as Grounded Bomb to come out. While Bomb is your go to "hard punish" as Bowser, Fsmash obviously has more killing power, particularly when slamming somebody near the ledge. I really can't think of an instance where this move is safe without a read. If you're opponent chooses ledge roll as his getup option, you could probably Fsmash that on reaction, but the timing is still tight, and requires you to say no to safer choices, like jabbing, shielding, Bombing, or Dsmashing.

The OP asked if Bowser's Fsmash is the "laggiest in the game". The answer is no. Dedede's Fsmash takes twice as long as Bowser's to come out, and is about as punishable on Block. That move has (marginally) better killing power, better range, and is disjointed thanks to the hammer, but I don't think you'll ever hear a Dedede main talk about how crucial Fsmash is to his game.

 

[MagiusNecros]

When I use ddd fsmash it's to see if my opponent is as stupid as I think they are.

 

[Big Sean]

I really can't think of an instance where this move is safe without a read.

Here is a list of forward smashes that you can do that are safe without a read: http://smashboards.com/threads/deal-with-it-a-guide-to-punishing-wip.381907/

 

[Dark Phazon]

Also between low to midish % I find SH f-air combos into F-smash provided they don't tech the fall. I've pulled it off quite a few times.

This is one I did like a week ago.

Oww that is one Dirty hulk bowser lmao nice and sexy i need to improve my boozer dropkik

 

[The Novice Sword]

Depending on the opponent, I like to bait out their own forward smash (or another slow move) step back a bit, and then let fly.

 

[Corgian]

As always @ Big Sean is a massive help to the boards <3 Another option which is how I get most of forward smashes is walk away pivot fsmash. Its a quasi-solid option if you're playing patiently and the opponent is over-committing to getting in.

Also, the hitbox beyond the feet is larger than it looks—by about an extra calf. This is useful for when someone is recovering and you're waiting at ledge.

EDIT: Also, on the same topic, some people in my scene mention that Bowser's Fsmash has a few frames of super-armor, but I'm almost positive it doesn't. Can anyone confirm?

 

[MagiusNecros]

No super armor. Only his legs are intangible.

 

[Corgian]

No super armor. Only his legs are intangible.

That makes far more sense. Thank you.

 

[Brendan Stepladder]

I've taken Fsmash out of my rotation of moves I consciously use. It's too slow, and Bowser is far from hurting for kill moves.

That being said, when I do use it, it's typically on counter-happy fools on For Glory. I love getting countered. I feel like I know how the entire match is going to go after they hit me with their first one.