Lag strategy

[Kornaki]

Let's stop complaining about lag and let's start incorporating it. Everyone knows the 3ds suffers from lag during online play, but there's no reason we can't make that an integral part of how we play on For Glory. Does anyone have lag strategies that they ever try? I was just fighting an olimar with my pikachu, both down to 1 stock (him: 140%, me: 8%), with 30 seconds left . We were about halfway across the stage when we hit a large lag spike. I thought to myself, if I dash attack ASAP I might be able to whack him while he waits for his unexpectedly un-buffered attack to come out. Worked like a beauty, got the KO and wrapped up the match.

 

[ReturningFall]

I've been wondering when someone would propose something like this.

I think the real question is how to meaningfully discuss lag. Input lag is very different from dropped frames and a couple frames delay is very different from heavy (>1ms) lag. The first frustrates technical players the latter turns the whole thing into a guessing game.

Case in point, I've seen a number of moves kill that absolutely shouldn't because lag prevents a reasonable response from coming out. On the other hand, a couple frames delay can be adapted to by trying to be more read-happy.

I also suspect this is behind 90% of the wild smashing and rolling on For Glory. It can require reads to score punishes and even small lag spikes can result in botched maneuvers that lead to smashes landing that...shouldn't.

 

[HeavyMetalSonic]

Lag can really affect a match if it occurs at the right/wrong time. Sometimes it's really useful, othertimes it can lead to taking a stock in a BS manner. And that's probably why people hate it so much. It disrupts the game in a way that can make someone who has COMPLETE control of a match suddenly lose.

An example of this...

I'm on the edge with Sonic waiting for an enemy to respawn, let's say I'm at 20%, pretty low. My opponent is right next to me and I want a quick move that will knock them back. I opt for down tilt because it's very fast, has decent range, can also trip the opponent, and I sometimes end up forward smashing when going for a forward tilt, so it's safer for me. Meanwhile, the enemy wants to keep me on the edge, so they opt to jab. Let's say they jab before I DTilt and there is input lag. The jab knocks me off the edge while I'm inputting DTilt while I'm on the ground, I get nudged off the edge and my DTilt now becomes a Dair due to lag, so I plummet downwards. The lag continues and I'm unable to jump or do an UpB before it's too late. I lose a stock and a MASSIVE lead.

It's things like this that would really annoy me personally, and likewise many other people. It takes the wind out of your sails and ruins the match for you. Being on the other end of the spectrum, you shouldn't feel accomplished or good about the SD that's just happened. So nobody really wins.

Now, if you're on about using it to your advantage, there's what I've just said, and then there is abusing it to get out of situations where you'd usually get punished. There have been a few times where I have managed to get out of something I shouldn't have because of a little blip in an online game, where the game slowed down briefly enough for me to escape, and sometimes punish the opponent. The problem is, it's hard to predict lag, there is no telltale sign as to when it'll happen and how bad it will be. That's why it's hard to 100% master it, it's an untamable beast, and we just have to get lucky when lag strikes.

 

[_v3]

I just tried online today after owning the game for a week and something. I think I'm done with this game, the online is really really bad.

 

[HeavyMetalSonic]

I just tried online today after owning the game for a week and something. I think I'm done with this game, the online is really really bad.

It's probably your internet man, pretty much all the games I have are flawless, unless of course my opponent is downloading 100 videos of 4K quality porn, or using a potato as their internet provider. Why not try a lan adapter? Having a wired connection might improve it. But then that depends if you want to spend money to play a game. Though, it could help with your other games, and third party ones are fairly cheap.

 

[_v3]

It's probably your internet man, pretty much all the games I have are flawless, unless of course my opponent is downloading 100 videos of 4K quality porn, or using a potato as their internet provider. Why not try a lan adapter? Having a wired connection might improve it. But then that depends if you want to spend money to play a game. Though, it could help with your other games, and third party ones are fairly cheap.

My internet is fine, everything else I play, even RE Mercs 3D is lag free while others keep complaining that it's bad. Also I gave it another go and got suspended for targeting too much 1 player... What is this??? I don't even...

 

[ReturningFall]

Lag can really affect a match if it occurs at the right/wrong time. Sometimes it's really useful, othertimes it can lead to taking a stock in a BS manner. And that's probably why people hate it so much. It disrupts the game in a way that can make someone who has COMPLETE control of a match suddenly lose.

It's things like this that would really annoy me personally, and likewise many other people. It takes the wind out of your sails and ruins the match for you. Being on the other end of the spectrum, you shouldn't feel accomplished or good about the SD that's just happened. So nobody really wins.

Now, if you're on about using it to your advantage, there's what I've just said, and then there is abusing it to get out of situations where you'd usually get punished. There have been a few times where I have managed to get out of something I shouldn't have because of a little blip in an online game, where the game slowed down briefly enough for me to escape, and sometimes punish the opponent. The problem is, it's hard to predict lag, there is no telltale sign as to when it'll happen and how bad it will be. That's why it's hard to 100% master it, it's an untamable beast, and we just have to get lucky when lag strikes.

That's what I'm talking about. The buffered d-air killing you is bad luck. But then again, what do we tell little mac players about running towards the opponent on the edge and whacking side-B?

Yeah, lag is unpredictable at times, but it can be semi-constant. The question is, in the average case, can you adapt or exploit it to get away with things you shouldn't. How can you stop people who are trying to take advantage? Case in point, I've found recovering low is safer in lag because it's more risky to drop down low and try to spike as the game can sometimes cause you to fast fall and kill yourself. It's been happening to me a lot recently.

Also, I suspect that lag spikes can be a random decider when both players are poking around at high percent. Does it justify things that are considered 'bad' like fishing? Does this mean that heavier characters who die from smashes slower and KO from the stage faster have more of an advantage online? At what levels of lag and behaviors do things change dramatically?

My internet is fine, everything else I play, even RE Mercs 3D is lag free while others keep complaining that it's bad. Also I gave it another go and got suspended for targeting too much 1 player... What is this??? I don't even...

I'd have to see your setup to judge but it might be your WiFi is slow or has lots of interference. I play on the original 3ds (purchased within a year of release) which is considered the worst for lag. There's noticeable lag, but it's not an insurmountable hindrance. I can say for me there are definite times of the day when lag gets awful (like dinner, when all the neighbors start microwaving or just before bed when the apartment's on Netflix).

Consider playing offline with friends more or in a club. Smash has always been more of a local party game with lots trash talk and yelling.

 

[_v3]

I'd have to see your setup to judge but it might be your WiFi is slow or has lots of interference. I play on the original 3ds (purchased within a year of release) which is considered the worst for lag. There's noticeable lag, but it's not an insurmountable hindrance. I can say for me there are definite times of the day when lag gets awful (like dinner, when all the neighbors start microwaving or just before bed when the apartment's on Netflix).

Consider playing offline with friends more or in a club. Smash has always been more of a local party game with lots trash talk and yelling.

This makes me sad, none of my friends have a 3DS (or a nintendo console for that matter, they are more PS fans) D:

Welp, I guess I'll stick to offline mode.

 

[HeavyMetalSonic]

My internet is fine, everything else I play, even RE Mercs 3D is lag free while others keep complaining that it's bad. Also I gave it another go and got suspended for targeting too much 1 player... What is this??? I don't even...

I've not really had much lag on my 3DS or WiiU, it's very rare, and usually because of the other party, but that's because my connection is pretty insane. Like fall said, I'd have to be there and be able to mess about to find out what was up. I was just suggesting a few things. cx

Really? I've left a few matches, just to join back with the same person which is weird... But how can you even target someone if it's randomly matching you up with them? Am I missing something? Also I don't get why you get banned for 10 minutes for leaving a match. You still receive a loss, the enemy will likely beat the CPU and get a win... What gives? It makes people have to SD, which makes their record look awful in the process.

 

[ReturningFall]

This makes me sad, none of my friends have a 3DS (or a nintendo console for that matter, they are more PS fans) D:

Welp, I guess I'll stick to offline mode.

Yeah, that sucks. A lot of the guys around me have always ben Call Of Duty types who look down on us that play REAL games. Actually, WiiU seems to usually have less lag.

Really? I've left a few matches, just to join back with the same person which is weird... But how can you even target someone if it's randomly matching you up with them? Am I missing something? Also I don't get why you get banned for 10 minutes for leaving a match. You still receive a loss, the enemy will likely beat the CPU and get a win... What gives? It makes people have to SD, which makes their record look awful in the process.

I think it's more likely _v3 just found scrubby poor sport who couldn't take a loss or made himself too easy to punish. I'm guessing it was team battle or FFA where there are multiple targets but one person always gets wrecked.

My brother plays a lot of Call of Duty. He wears all the times he's been banned/reported/complained about with pride. Apparently scrubs like to abuse these reporting systems when they lose. Nice work _v3.

 

[derpcube]

Lag can really affect a match if it occurs at the right/wrong time. Sometimes it's really useful, othertimes it can lead to taking a stock in a BS manner. And that's probably why people hate it so much. It disrupts the game in a way that can make someone who has COMPLETE control of a match suddenly lose.

An example of this...

I'm on the edge with Sonic waiting for an enemy to respawn, let's say I'm at 20%, pretty low. My opponent is right next to me and I want a quick move that will knock them back. I opt for down tilt because it's very fast, has decent range, can also trip the opponent, and I sometimes end up forward smashing when going for a forward tilt, so it's safer for me. Meanwhile, the enemy wants to keep me on the edge, so they opt to jab. Let's say they jab before I DTilt and there is input lag. The jab knocks me off the edge while I'm inputting DTilt while I'm on the ground, I get nudged off the edge and my DTilt now becomes a Dair due to lag, so I plummet downwards. The lag continues and I'm unable to jump or do an UpB before it's too late. I lose a stock and a MASSIVE lead.

It's things like this that would really annoy me personally, and likewise many other people. It takes the wind out of your sails and ruins the match for you. Being on the other end of the spectrum, you shouldn't feel accomplished or good about the SD that's just happened. So nobody really wins.

Now, if you're on about using it to your advantage, there's what I've just said, and then there is abusing it to get out of situations where you'd usually get punished. There have been a few times where I have managed to get out of something I shouldn't have because of a little blip in an online game, where the game slowed down briefly enough for me to escape, and sometimes punish the opponent. The problem is, it's hard to predict lag, there is no telltale sign as to when it'll happen and how bad it will be. That's why it's hard to 100% master it, it's an untamable beast, and we just have to get lucky when lag strikes.

Another issue about lag is it is different for everyone. I have like High Speed Internet on steroids so there may be occasions where the most lag I get is some frame drops that don't affect the game that much.

People that have horrible internet however(Especially those with input delay) are used to it and can time their attacks perfectly.
A while back I was playing against a little mac with alot of input lag, inputs would be like 2 seconds late. I was getting my ass beaten while my opponent knew which direction I would go, and knew how to follow up with their input lag scenario.

But one day I fought my friend with that horrible internet and then... a miracle happened....

I was fighting a full 60 frames per second with no input delay what so ever
It was like playing smash 3ds offline.
It was beautiful...

 

[HeavyMetalSonic]

Another issue about lag is it is different for everyone. I have like High Speed Internet on steroids so there may be occasions where the most lag I get is some frame drops that don't affect the game that much.

People that have horrible internet however(Especially those with input delay) are used to it and can time their attacks perfectly.
A while back I was playing against a little mac with alot of input lag, inputs would be like 2 seconds late. I was getting my *** beaten while my opponent knew which direction I would go, and knew how to follow up with their input lag scenario.

But one day I fought my friend with that horrible internet and then... a miracle happened....

I was fighting a full 60 frames per second with no input delay what so ever
It was like playing smash 3ds offline.
It was beautiful...

Yeah, I'm on of those people who have a good connection, it's rare that I have a bad connection with my opponent, but when you do, it's REALLY noticable. But luckily you can adapt fairly quickly on the fly. But people who have lag more often are definitely at an advantage. It's usually frame drops that I get, I've only had a handful of input lag matches during my 500+ matches online.

 

[Kornaki]

If you're getting banned for targeting, it means you're doing a FFA, and those I've noticed tend to be a lot more laggy. Try sticking to 1v1 fights.

The sonic analogy above is perfect. Doing a D-tilt near the edge is a risky maneuver in online play, because it might get buffered into a D-air if there's lag. Stuff like that I think makes for interesting theorycrafting; obviously I don't think anyone wants to figure out how to 'hit the lag-lab' so to speak and figure out empirically what moves are superior/inferior in a laggy environment, but analogies and observations can be assembled to minimize frustration/maximize exploitation of the opponent. If I notice my opponent down tilts a lot I might try to knock him off the edge more often, and I would feel OK about it if I won like that.