L-Cancelling Tips

[Jackson]

Ok, L-cancelling. I realize how important it is in this game. It's needed to halve lag and continue combos, obviously something that i want to do. I'm new to PM, so I'm currently struggling with it. I know the L in L-Cancelling actually means "lag", not the L button, but I'm pretty sure most people L cancel with the L button. I think that would be the optimal way, but the Z button is easier. In Training mode, I see the white flash that appears when you L cancel a lot when I do it with Z, but not as much when with L. Maybe I just don't notice it. The problem is, pressing L to do it makes more sense because I obviously use Z to grab and R to shield. I know that was lengthy, but after that exposition, can you guys answer these questions?

- Do most people L cancel with the L button?
- Is there a good trick with the timing?
- Is it easier to do it with the Z button than the L button?
- Are there any major drawbacks to doing it with the Z button?
- Can you tell me any general helpful things with L cancelling?

 

[lubko]

L, R, or Z for l canceling is mostly preference. There's no real trick to the timing, it ends up being muscle memory. Technically in PM you have to l cancel 1-7 frames before you land. It's easier to use Z if it's easier for you to use Z, one pro of using Z is you could mash it after l canceling to perform a quick grab. That could also be considered a draw back if you hit Z late and then have grab lag when there's no one to grab.

General help? For me it was just accepting there was no trick to l canceling. Practice practice practice, take a break to watch some pro technique, some good streams, then practice practice practice some more.

 

[Jackson]

L, R, or Z for l canceling is mostly preference. There's no real trick to the timing, it ends up being muscle memory. Technically in PM you have to l cancel 1-7 frames before you land. It's easier to use Z if it's easier for you to use Z, one pro of using Z is you could mash it after l canceling to perform a quick grab. That could also be considered a draw back if you hit Z late and then have grab lag when there's no one to grab.

General help? For me it was just accepting there was no trick to l canceling. Practice practice practice, take a break to watch some pro technique, some good streams, then practice practice practice some more.

Sounds good. I might end up using Z.

 

[lubko]

Also just found this on /r/smashbros, about soft-cancelling (something I didn't know aobut til just now)

Basically if you use L or R to l cancel, don't press it far down enough to click, or else you could lose your ability to tech if you get hit. However with Z you don't have to worry about that.

 

[Y-L]

If you do use Z you need to keep your finger on Z always, however there are some benefits to using L or R as you can light press L cancel (I still can't do this) and it won't mess up your ability to tech if you get punished while trying to L cancel. Furthermore it just seems more comfortable to use L or R.

Here's something you should know: for the majority of moves if you short hop the attack you can hold down to fast fall and press L/R/Z to L cancel at the same and get it to work. So try doing SH->A->down on analog+L/R/Z. Now over time you want to delay L/R/Z by just a fraction of a second but do it at the same time to get the hang of it.
Note that the timing of the fast fall L cancel is different if you a) full hop or b) hit an opponent or c) hit a shield. Bowser with damage ratio really low is great to practice on.

 

[Jackson]

Good advice guys. Soft canceling sounds tough, so I plan to use Z unless it impairs my game.

 

[Bazkip]

If you do use Z you need to keep your finger on Z always, however there are some benefits to using L or R as you can light press L cancel (I still can't do this) and it won't mess up your ability to tech if you get punished while trying to L cancel. Furthermore it just seems more comfortable to use L or R.

But Z is a light press

Anywho, if you might want to try your hand at controller modification, some people remove the membrane that enables hard presses in one of their shoulder buttons, making it light press only. So you get the ease of using a shoulder button without worry of messing up your techs or trying to avoid hard pressing. They'll also usually take the spring out of the other should button, making it hard press only. It's a nifty setup.

 

[Jackson]

^Cool. You know, contrary to my previous statement, after messing around in training a bit I decided that I will indeed use L to L cancel. After playing Smash for years holding my controller a certain way, it just felt too unnatural to keep a finger on Z at all times.

 

[Mera Mera]

But Z is a light press

Anywho, if you might want to try your hand at controller modification, some people remove the membrane that enables hard presses in one of their shoulder buttons, making it light press only. So you get the ease of using a shoulder button without worry of messing up your techs or trying to avoid hard pressing. They'll also usually take the spring out of the other should button, making it hard press only. It's a nifty setup.

Z is a light press in Melee, but iirc that's not currently true in PM, sadly. Z counts as a hard press. I could be wrong. I read it somewhat recently but I don't remember who said it.

 

[Bazkip]

Z is a light press in Melee, but iirc that's not currently true in PM, sadly. Z counts as a hard press. I could be wrong. I read it somewhat recently but I don't remember who said it.

If it was a hard press, using Z to do aerials wouldn't work, no? It'd just result in an airdodge?

 

[Scuba Steve]

If it was a hard press, using Z to do aerials wouldn't work, no? It'd just result in an airdodge?

That would be true if Z was mapped to shield, but it's mapped to grab by default. There was a thread not too long ago about this. Z in Melee counts as a light press when L-cancelling, but in PM it counts as a hard press.

 

[Smash John]

you can tech with z, so it's definitely a hard press. as for mashing z after an aerial for a grab, for me anyway, it's much too easy to push z too early and just get a shield. i'd rather use L, hold L after you land and mash A. there's no risk of getting stuck in shield that way. tho some people like to use z for aerials and find it easier to just press the same button twice. mess around and find whatever's comfortable for you
overall, it's really not that hard to get the timing down after a little practice, but if you're still having trouble with it, i'd say go ahead and use a fullpress of L. lightpress and fullpress count as 2 different inputs, so you're technically pressing the trigger twice in a row which slightly widens the input window by a couple frames

 

[standardtoaster]

full press doesn't increase the window for it haha

 

[Smash John]

i know it doesn't technically, but more of...if you start a lightpress 8 frames before you land, and you start a fullpress 8 frames before you land, doing a fullpress would register the initial lightpress and then register the fullpress about a frame later, right? (unless you mash down on the trigger ungodly fast, i guess)
more of just artificially increasing the window

 

[Jackson]

Ok, so apparently hard pressing with the L button is bad... But it seems so hard to press it and NOT make it click, especially in the heat of battle.

 

[9bit]

Anywho, if you might want to try your hand at controller modification, some people remove the membrane that enables hard presses in one of their shoulder buttons, making it light press only. So you get the ease of using a shoulder button without worry of messing up your techs or trying to avoid hard pressing. They'll also usually take the spring out of the other should button, making it hard press only. It's a nifty setup.

Definitely. It's been around a week or something since I did this and I am really loving it. For me the benefits are outweighing the drawbacks.

Ok, so apparently hard pressing with the L button is bad... But it seems so hard to press it and NOT make it click, especially in the heat of battle.

Yeah I was having that problem, too. I ended up taking the "lazy" way out (i.e. not actually training to get better) by removing the hard-press ability from the L button. The only drawbacks to doing this are you can't ragequit (L+R+A+Start) and you can't air-dodge with it (which hopefully will get fixed).

 

[Y-L]

Ok, so apparently hard pressing with the L button is bad... But it seems so hard to press it and NOT make it click, especially in the heat of battle.

It's bad, but it's by no means vital. I don't light press L cancel and I still perform well. You just want the ability (by using L/R) to learn it without having to change what button you use when you're ready to learn it.

 

[Y-L]

you can't air-dodge with it (which hopefully will get fixed).

I'm pretty sure no light press air dodges was intentional.

 

[9bit]

@ Y-L yeah I wasn't sure on using the word "fixed" there, but I would consider it a fix along with @SpiderMad

 

[Jackson]

Hmm. Controller modification sounds legit. Where would you get yours modified? Also, does removing the hard press membrane have an effect in Brawl? (If anyone knows)

 

[Y-L]

Hmm. Controller modification sounds legit. Where would you get yours modified? Also, does removing the hard press membrane have an effect in Brawl? (If anyone knows)

Just do it yourself with a tri-wing screwdriver, they're like 2 bucks on Amazon.

 

[Jackson]

Just do it yourself with a tri-wing screwdriver, they're like 2 bucks on Amazon.

Lol, I feel like I would mess up the controller.

 

[Bazkip]

Definitely. It's been around a week or something since I did this and I am really loving it. For me the benefits are outweighing the drawbacks.

I'm considering doing it, but I also kinda want to keep a shoulder button on attack for easier DACUS...decisions, decisions.

 

[9bit]

I'm considering doing it, but I also kinda want to keep a shoulder button on attack for easier DACUS...decisions, decisions.

Thankfully I don't play any characters that can DACUS, but when I did I set Z to attack. Now I have Z set to footstool.

 

[Bazkip]

Thankfully I don't play any characters that can DACUS, but when I did I set Z to attack. Now I have Z set to footstool.

What do you do to grab, shoulder button and A?

 

[9bit]

What do you do to grab, shoulder button and A?

I set X to grab. Did it when Brawl first came out and I got sooooo used to it

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Fall into the ground from a short hop, press L while the attack is still out.

It's how I perfected it. I thought of it as 'interrupting' the aerial with a L-press and a landing. Gives you a sort of physical goalpost to hit.

 

[AcousticAdrian]

@ 9bit I am not sure whether you know this already, but in the wifi-safe setup, you can air dodge with a light press.

 

[9bit]

@ 9bit I am not sure whether you know this already, but in the wifi-safe setup, you can air dodge with a light press.

Yeah, but it doesn't have c-stick buffering which affects me more than the air-dodge thing, unfortunately. Oh, well. I can manage.

@ Jackson as long as you remember to push the button before you land, and don't try to time it for when you land, you should pick it up pretty quickly. Like lubko said, you need to push it 1-7 frames before landing. And note that if your attack hits someone or their shield, the timing for the L-cancel will be different than if you don't hit anything.

 

[Jackson]

Thanks guys, you all have been very helpful.