Known Differences From Brawl?

[Saikyoshi]

Okay I'm just going to say it straight; I don't know how to argue against the "Smash 4 = Brawl 2" thing. The few things I do know, I don't know how to back up. So how is this game an improvement? I've tried pointing out all the usual things - combos are back, hitstun is back, tripping's gone, some moves autocancel. All on deaf ears.

Not criticizing the game. I just want to fortify our argument.

IMPORTANT: You cannot mention the roster or a hope that the final build will be changed from the demo. People arguing "Brawl 2" won't listen to that.

 

[Blazeth]

No tripping.
Much faster.

That alone should be enough to please you competitive gurus more than Brawl did.

 

[Saikyoshi]

No tripping.
Much faster.

That alone should be enough to please you competitive gurus more than Brawl did.

I tried arguing that. They said it wasn't enough. "I played the demo, it's a terrible game", one person said. "It's not hard to be superior to Brawl."

 

[josh bones]

The game is diffrent from brawl as it is super smash brothers for the wii u/ 3da, and therefore not brawl
/thread

 

[Saikyoshi]

The game is diffrent from brawl as it is super smash brothers for the wii u/ 3da, and therefore not brawl
/thread

Gee, that is an extremely compelling argument. You just made the entire Melee fanbase fall to their knees and worship you with that one. 9_9

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

Biggest known differences from Brawl is the version, where Brawl is 1.0.

 

[Gameboi834]

Holy hell, the only thing you can think about in this board is trying to compare this game to the other games. Why can't you just let it be its own game?

 

[Saikyoshi]

Holy hell, the only thing you can think about in this board is trying to compare this game to the other games. Why can't you just let it be its own game?

I want to, but nobody else will.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Smash 4 is as much of a fixed Brawl as Brawl was a fixed Melee.

 

[josh bones]

Smash 4 is as much as a fixed Brawl as Brawl was a fixed Melee.

....I don't see the comparison.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

....I don't see the comparison.

Thats the point.

 

[josh bones]

Thats the point.

So, removing tripping, speeding stuff up, and having a more viable rooster isn't fixing brawl?

 

[Saikyoshi]

So basically, you guys can't come up with an argument, either.

That's fine, I'll just go jump in a lake. How dare I try to get excited for a game and hope Sakurai isn't that stupid.

 

[Doomstar]

I dunno, at this point any debate stemming from "Smash 4 = Brawl 2" devolves pretty quickly. It goes without saying that this game is different but for many of the people who didn't play the demo or don't know what to make of the hours of footage we have so far, the release of the game will be the true indicator.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

i don't see your problem you said that your argument were falling on deaf ears. meaning that they were not going to listen regardless of your argument. Don't trouble yourself with people not worth being troubled for.

 

[GLStephen]

You put forth several valid differences in the first post. If that's not enough for other, why care? You can still enjoy it. They may be looking for different things from you, and it really may not offer the specific experience that they desire from a video game. That's fine. You shouldn't need justification from others to enjoy something.

 

[Saikyoshi]

i don't see your problem you said that your argument were falling on deaf ears. meaning that they were not going to listen regardless of your argument. Don't trouble yourself with people not worth being troubled for.

They're going to keep ruining the game for me and making me too depressed to touch the series at all if I don't think of something.

You put forth several valid differences in the first post. If that's not enough for other, why care? You can still enjoy it. They may be looking for different things from you, and it really may not offer the specific experience that they desire from a video game. That's fine. You shouldn't need justification from others to enjoy something.

I'm what you call "an easy target" and "easily discouraged".

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Taken from SSBWiki:

Spoiler

Gameplay changes


Brawl character size comparison.


SSB4 character size comparison.

• The size differences between bigger and smaller characters will be somewhat more drastic, which can be seen when comparing the pictures on the right, with Sakurai remarking "A group shot of the big guys. How much bigger are they compared to Mario?" for the latter image.[14] It should be noted that character sizes seem to fluctuate between images, suggesting that their sizes will be different in the final build.
• It appears the movesets and animations of returning characters will go through a larger amount of change than the returning characters did from the transition of Melee to Brawl, with many returning characters being shown with completely new moves, and some appear to be getting significantly altered (such as Bowser).
  • It additionally appears there is a greater emphasis on buffing the returning characters, with even characters that were top and high tier in Brawl, such as Diddy Kong and Lucario, being shown to receive explicit significant buffs.
• Mid-match character changes, such as Zelda/Sheik's Transform, will no longer exist. This means Zelda and Sheik, along with Samus and Zero Suit Samus, will be completely separate characters that are no longer able to transform to the other. This also means the Pokémon Trainer will not return as a playable character without being completely revamped as a single character.
• In an interview with Kotaku, Sakurai confirmed that tripping would not return.[15] It seems he was referring to random tripping, since forced tripping appears to have returned, as shown by the return of the banana peel item.
  • Similarly, it appears potential randomness in moves is being cut down; for example, Olimar now plucks his Pikmin in a set order instead of the Pikmin plucked being chosen at random, and King Dedede's Waddle Dee Throw has been replaced with a new move that involves throwing only Gordos instead of throwing one randomly chosen minion.
• To appeal to both casual and hardcore gamers, Sakurai said the game's speed will be between that of Melee and Brawl.[16] In support of this, in the gameplay footage shown so far, characters seem to be falling faster than they do in Brawl.
  • In a similar appeal to both casual and hardcore gamers, there are now two distinct type of With Anyone Wi-Fi modes; one called For Fun, which seems similar to the previous game's casual-styled Basic Brawl, and one called For Glory, a mode explicitly catered to competitive-styled play.
  • Additionally, almost every stage now will have a "Final Destination form", where the stage's design is altered into a single large flat platform with no additional platforms, and these stages cannot be played on in the For Fun mode while being the only stages available in the For Glory mode.
• In a demo match between Mario and Mega Man, there appears to be no stale-move negation [17]. It is unknown whether it has been explicitly removed, yet to be programmed at the time of the demo, or temporarily disabled for the demo.
• Neutral attacks that previously ended in an indefinite number of weak hits (such as Fox's and Kirby's) will now "always transition into a finishing move", making such moves safer to use (as simply ending the move no longer leaves the opponent nearby). It is currently unclear if rapid jabs can still be held infinitely, or if they will automatically transition into the finishing hit after a period of time.[18]
• Holding the right control stick (C-Stick on GameCube controller) in a direction will now charge smash attacks until the stick is released.
• It appears that pummeling has been sped up dramatically.
• The ability to act out of hitstun has been removed.
• The mechanics of grabbing ledges will undergo an unprecedented overhaul[19]. The difference between fast and slow edge options based on current damage will be removed, the length of intangibility given by grabbing the ledge will be affected by air time and current damage, and there appears to be some way to steal the ledge from opponents edge hogging, though no information about it was given.
• Tether recoveries will be buffed, with their reach being improved. In addition, multiple tethers can grab onto the same edge at once, making such moves less suspectible to edgehogging, though "who actually grabs hold is determined by the same rules as the standard ledge grab".
• Star KOs no longer occur near the end of a timed match; it is unclear from the relevant post's wording[20] whether this means that all top-side KOs will be Screen KOs or typical blast KOs.
• It appears that swimming has been removed.
• The special moves for characters can be modified using a new moveset customization feature. The customization will go beyond simple damage and knockback altering, with the moves' functions and aesthetics being able to be completely revamped.
• The Wii U version will be compatible with a set of amiibo figurines utilizing the Wii U GamePad and near field communication (NFC). By using their respective figurine, players can give a character custom moves and level them up to level 50.

Aesthetic changes

• In general, the game is much more stylized and visually intense than previous entries, with the overall colors being bolder and brighter and many elements having been redone to stand out more.
• The characters' design styles are more distinct from each other and more in-line with their home series, in contrast to Brawl which gave the characters a more unified realistic look. For example, characters from cartoony franchises such as the Mario and Kirby series are much closer to their native styles, while those from more realistic-looking franchises such as The Legend of Zelda and Metroid series maintain more realistic appearances.
• In the Wii U version, most characters will always stand facing the screen regardless of which direction they face, with the intent of having them face the screen more often.
  • This applies to movement and attack animations as well, often involving them mirroring their stance and attacks. Due to this, there is a possibility that some attacks may behave slightly differently when they interact with each other from different directions. For example, if such an "ambidextrous" character and another character that does not use this feature attack each other, the attacks may clang in a different location or even connect with the opponent differently depending on what direction the two characters are facing.
• Damage percentage is now displayed with a metallic gradient and rises through yellow shades before turning red.
• Several visual effects are significantly bolder and brighter (and so are arguably more visually disruptive):
  • Attacks' visual effects (such as motion blurs) are in general more pronounced, with bright saturated blurs replacing the previous game's subtle ones.
  • Smoke trails of hit characters are now thick trails of light, colored according to which player would be credited with a potential KO. Should the KO occur, the attacker will flash with an aura of their own color.
  • The design of KOs themselves closely resembles those in Brawl, but the soundbite sounds much more like an actual explosion now.
  • Hits that deal knockback above a certain value produce a red-and-black lightning effect on contact.
• Certain items such as the Bumper and Home-Run Bat have been given new, more striking designs. The Home-Run Bat, for example, is more ornate and is now colored to match the new high-knockback lightning effect.
• In the 3DS version, characters now have team colored outlines in Team Battles, and can select a color normally.
• Revival platforms now have a section that changes color based on the remaining time left before the platform disappears.
• Characters with high damage percentages now emit steam, presumably to make their vulnerability more clear.
• In the 3DS version, players can tap on a characters icon on the bottom screen to place a marker on that character on the top screen, in order to more easily follow their movements.
• Victory scenes seem to be a cross between Brawl and Melee. Like Melee, only the winner is shown in the main area, while the others are seen applauding in small windows on the screen. However, instead of a featureless black screen, the winner's area is an environment similar to that in Brawl’s victory screen.
• Screen KOs now feature characters hitting the screen and staying there ("splatting") for a moment before sliding off, whereas in preceding games, they simply bumped into the screen and kept falling at their initial speed.
• The Stock Icons for Stock Matches are now akin to those in Melee, in which they appeared as the character's head, as opposed to Brawl, where they were merely small circles colored depending on the player. Additionally, the stock icons are placed below the HUD that contains the character's damage percentage rather than on it.
• Characters no longer "halt" as they run off of ledges, and instead have animations that transition them into their air speed.

Other apparent changes

• Sakurai stated that the short movies for introducing new characters, including Mega Man, Villager, and Wii Fit Trainer, will be viewable without having to be unlocked, much like the reveal trailers for Snake and Sonic in Brawl's Movies menu.
• As claimed during the Smash Bros. Direct, Assist Trophies will "figure into all-star mode".

I trust, this proof will suffice?

Seriously dude, there's a lot different. That list doesn't even count changes in character movesets (like Sonic's new Dsmash, Link's new dash attack, etc.). The comparisons to Brawl are mostly to do with Smash 4's likeness being more heavily similar to Brawl than 64 and Melee. It's about scale. Is it similar on the whole? Some would argue yes (including me). Is it an absolute carbon copy that didn't change anything at all and is just being sold with a new coat of paint? Absolutely not.

 

[ShizChiz]

I want to, but nobody else will.

Gotta let it go, Usher. Just mellow out and go with the flow man.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Besides anytime i hear brawl 2.0 i imagine less combo's less hitstun, more landing lag, more broken meta knight, and more tripping.

 

[HeavyLobster]

• It has a good number of true combos(no hitstun cancelling)
  
• Chaingrabs appear to be gone
• No tripping
• Pivot cancelling, as well as faster dashes and rolls, mean increased ground movement options
• Getting rid of planking and gliding, as well as nerfed airdodges, make it harder to simply run away
• Spikes, like Hard Knuckle and now Thunder, appear to be more dangerous
• Projectiles appear to be nerfed
• Shields appear to be easier to break
• Bowser is actually good

 

[Gameboi834]

So basically, you guys can't come up with an argument, either.

That's fine, I'll just go jump in a lake. How dare I try to get excited for a game and hope Sakurai isn't that stupid.

It was literally under thirty minutes when you posted this very flammable topic. Give it time; you'll get a spark eventually and then it will go down in flames.

 

[GLStephen]

They're going to keep ruining the game for me and making me too depressed to touch the series at all if I don't think of something.


I'm what you call "an easy target" and "easily discouraged".

I've noticed, but it doesn't have to be that way.

 

[☆Jazz☆]

Textures. The characters look so much better than how they looked in Brawl.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

I'll be honest, I have no idea what this thread is really about or what's going on.

 

[GLStephen]

psychotherapy through smash bros.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

So, removing tripping, speeding stuff up, and having a more viable rooster isn't fixing brawl?

Thats some charged wording isn't it? Brawl was fine how it was.

Slowing things down, adding more characters, improving recoveries isn't fixing Melee?

Its all a matter of preference.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

DON"T FORGET yoshi and bowser stand up right :S

 

[Saikyoshi]

psychotherapy through smash bros.

I admit that's pretty much what's going on. *shrug*

 

[ShizChiz]

In all seriousness, its your money. I understand feeling like you need to justify your purchase, but you're the one getting the game, for you. Who cares if a million people hate the game but you love it? Spend that money, JG Wentworth.

 

[Nikes]

Though unintentional, this is probably going to come across as rude...a lot of solo-Melee players I've seen always appear to choose to be ignorant to anything Smash 4 has going for it. Not blanket-grouping Melee players by saying everyone is, but the majority does anyway. How I'd love to be proven wrong...

They're going to keep ruining the game for me and making me too depressed to touch the series at all if I don't think of something.


I'm what you call "an easy target" and "easily discouraged".

I'm very similar to you here, it doesn't look like we'll have a solution until the game is released unfortunately...

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I admit that's pretty much what's going on. *shrug*

your just spending you much time on smash 4 NEGATIVES and need to start going on some SMASH 4 POSITIVES.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Don't bother with people who say its Brawl 2.0. Just tell them that Smash 4 is Melee 2.0. Then watch them be confounded at something equally as ridiculous as Brawl 2.0.

There are so many differences. We don't even know the technical aspect of the game yet. Something that took Melee years to develop. How can they say something so definitive when the game isn't even out yet? It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Crawful]

I tried arguing that. They said it wasn't enough. "I played the demo, it's a terrible game", one person said. "It's not hard to be superior to Brawl."

Lel, sounds like all of the trolls on /ssbg/. It's good not to listen to them, or blacklist "Brawl 2.0" or something.
If someone says that to you, they're either looking for a reaction or are a complete moron who doesn't understand what game design is, and how engines of games work.
I mean, if they went down and changed every little thing to the point of making all 100% new UI system, then it's its own game, and nothing more. And, let's just say they did add in all of the competitive stuff. Those same trolls would just call it "Melee 2.0", and even though this is considered not a bad thing, they would use the argument of Melee being fundamentally flawed, and put it on the game.
Trolls will complain about literally any fault. Some of the Brawl 2.0 trolls were saying the game was terrible because of the Giga Bowser hanging glitch that happened during the tournament.

 

[Doomstar]

I'll be honest, I have no idea what this thread is really about or what's going on.

If I understand it right then the cynicism and critique of S4 on the boards is seemingly overwhelming to him and at this point he's looking for something, anything, to convince him that the game won't be the abysmal, stunted, unbalanced mess some members are predicting it will be.

 

[Saikyoshi]

In all seriousness, its your money. I understand feeling like you need to justify your purchase, but you're the one getting the game, for you. Who cares if a million people hate the game but you love it? Spend that money, JG Wentworth.

The thing is, if I buy it, I'll probably keep paying for it if you get what I'm saying.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

All i know is that there is a certain bleach anime character username and rouge the bat avatar thats been ruining peoples day lately

 

[Opossum]

These threads are by no means encouraged here. In fact, they're discouraged. Hence, as it may start flame wars, this thread will be locked.