Kirbycide: cheating or fair play?

[Dutch Kirby]

Yesterday, I was playing on the Wii U's For Glory mode, and won most of my battles. I won most of my battles, using Kirbycide/Swallowcide a lot. My sister, who was watching, called me a cheater and said that it's unfair to use.

However, I think it's fair play. It's not banned in tournaments. If it would really be broken, or unfair, the competitive Smash scene would've done something about it.

Also, if I play against human characters and they see Kirby near a ledge, they know, or should know, what they can expect. Maybe I'm a sneaky, dirty, cheap little *******, but in the end, I'm the one winning more often than I lose.

So my question to people here: do you think Kirbycide is unfair, or do you think it's perfectly fine? And most importantly: why do have the opinion you have?

I hope not only people with Kirby as their main will see this and respond, but according to the rules, it has to go in here instead of the main forum...

 

[cwjakesteel]

It's not Fair. It's actually neutral B.










but srsly tho. It's obviously fair...

 

[DD_]

It's Perfectly Fine. The strategy can be beaten and if they fall for it it's their problem not yours.

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

Even if you DO get caught in Kirby's mouth, depending on who and where you are, how much percent you have on you, and what Customs you have on, you actually can survive it with stick spinning & button mashing, and depending on how you recover, you can possibly even counter-gimp Kirby for it.

Perhaps one of the worst stages to try this is a walled Omega, due to the amount of characters that can make use of wall-jumps to help themselves back up to the stage, like , , and . Even has a shot at surviving it if he makes it to the wall for the wall-jump, and his chances increase with Up 2 as well.

Characters that you'll struggle very much trying to Kirbicide are folks like , , and , due to how great their recoveries are (I'd only consider Jr's recovery great if Side B Jump Cancels are used).

So yeah, I'm totally okay with Kirbicides, for it is a legit tactic with hard counters to it. Feel free to go for it if you're at non-walled Omegas or hard-to-recover-on stages like Lylat Cruise & Kongo Jungle 64. Also go for it if you're up a stock, your opponent's trying to go far off-stage against you for the deep edgeguard, and said opponent is someone like , , or .

 

[KirbCider]

I believe Kirby-cide, as well as D3-cide is completely fair.

It can be easy to escape depending on your percent, plus if they aren't smart enough to stay away from a Kirby/Dedede on the edge that has the potential to do so then it's their fault. There's also the chance of your opponent reading what you're about to do and actually giving you a harsh punish due to the inhale end lag. If I also remember right you can survive all the ciding techniques now in Sm4sh, but for some reason a lot of people just don't try to and accept their fates.

 

[JAZZ_]

Yes it's totally fair. Just like any powerful ko move like,
Jigglys rest
Macs ko punch
Ganon's warlock punch
Samus' charge shot
Martha shield breaker
Etc
You can and should avoid putting yourself in a situation where you get punished by said move. The people who say kirbycide is unfair are not intelligent enough to avoid it. Smash is a game of skill and wits. Be aware of such threats and don't be gullible.

 

[Dutch Kirby]

Agreed with all of you. I just think any smart player who sees Kirby near a ledge knows what to expect. Still, I've won plenty of battles on For Glory by taking both of the opponent's lives with a Swallowcide.

 

[Dutch Kirby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXrAHV-Tvqw
What do you all think of a win like this? Would you say it's skill, or the opponent being stupid enough to fall for Kirbycide? I'd say the second. Especially if Kirbycide killed you once, you need to stay away from the ledge if Kirby is there!

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

That win was legit skill on your end & a lack of MU knowledge on your opponent's part, because that Roy player didn't slow down enough to try to outrange your inhale with his sword's disjoint on many of his moves, like his tilts (easier done with C-Stick set to Attack, especially if he was calmly walking) or the Green Down Ender of his Double-Edge Dance, nor did he properly (double) jump over your inhale for a counterattack. Roy's NAir & Neutral B are not good options for challenging Inhale directly from the front, but his well-timed & spaced FAir & DAir are if he's going to land in front of Inhale (close to Kirby himself, not from a distance), which I personally would not recommend going for, due to how risky it is if he mistimes it.

Plus, Roy Not Koopa IS one of those characters that I suggested trying to Kirbicide (), and your replay shows how effective it is against him if his spacing & timing are off, especially if said Roy player doesn't mash buttons and/or spin the stick fast enough if/when he's already Inhaled.

Strangely, I myself don't actually go for the Kirbicide most of the time, if mainly because I'm more interested in taking their abilities, depending on which FG room I happen to be in and who it is I'm up against. Against someone like or , I would definitely skip out on Kirbiciding them, because not only are their recoveries fantastic, but so are their abilities when under my control.

 

[Paxadin]

Strangely, I myself don't actually go for the Kirbicide most of the time, if mainly because I'm more interested in taking their abilities, depending on which FG room I happen to be in and who it is I'm up against. Against someone like or , I would definitely skip out on Kirbiciding them, because not only are their recoveries fantastic, but so are their abilities when under my control.

Funny enough, I tend to never copy abilities and just use either attack to follow up.
Swallow can get easy follow ups if your opponent doesn't react, and spitting out the opponent near the edge i feel like is a lot more efficient.
You force them to use a second jump to get back, and you get the upper hand by being on the stage.

I only ever Kirbycide for fun against my friends or when the opponent in FG is lagging really bad.
Everything in this game, if used in a non-glitchy way is fair (I.E; Pac-man's up-special glitch), even spammers. They are simply using the tools given to them, and if you can't find a way around it, it's your own lack of skills.

 

[Dutch Kirby]

That win was legit skill on your end & a lack of MU knowledge on your opponent's part, because that Roy player didn't slow down enough to try to outrange your inhale with his sword's disjoint on many of his moves, like his tilts (easier done with C-Stick set to Attack, especially if he was calmly walking) or the Green Down Ender of his Double-Edge Dance, nor did he properly (double) jump over your inhale for a counterattack. Roy's NAir & Neutral B are not good options for challenging Inhale directly from the front, but his well-timed & spaced FAir & DAir are if he's going to land in front of Inhale (close to Kirby himself, not from a distance), which I personally would not recommend going for, due to how risky it is if he mistimes it.

What surprised me most is that he fell for it a second time. The first time, okay, that can happen. But instantly after dying, falling for the same old trick again? It really surprised me how easy it was to do that. I've battled plenty of Roy players who did slow down and hit me without getting swallowed. Many Roy players did try eutral B as well, but it was an utter fail against me.

Plus, Roy Not Koopa IS one of those characters that I suggested trying to Kirbicide (), and your replay shows how effective it is against him if his spacing & timing are off, especially if said Roy player doesn't mash buttons and/or spin the stick fast enough if/when he's already Inhaled.

Strangely, I myself don't actually go for the Kirbicide most of the time, if mainly because I'm more interested in taking their abilities, depending on which FG room I happen to be in and who it is I'm up against. Against someone like or , I would definitely skip out on Kirbiciding them, because not only are their recoveries fantastic, but so are their abilities when under my control.

Yeah, I notice that many players don't mash buttons and just give up once inhaled. Why don't they even try anymore? I don't get it.

I personally rarely take abilities, since the advantage of getting a Kirbycide in is just too big to forego.

Funny enough, I tend to never copy abilities and just use either attack to follow up.
Swallow can get easy follow ups if your opponent doesn't react, and spitting out the opponent near the edge i feel like is a lot more efficient.
You force them to use a second jump to get back, and you get the upper hand by being on the stage.

I only ever Kirbycide for fun against my friends or when the opponent in FG is lagging really bad.
Everything in this game, if used in a non-glitchy way is fair (I.E; Pac-man's up-special glitch), even spammers. They are simply using the tools given to them, and if you can't find a way around it, it's your own lack of skills.

Understandable. I also often just either stand near a ledge for a quick Kirbycide, or start taunting, wait for the opponent to come at me, time properly and hit them with a smash attack.

Makes sense, I also like hitting opponents who try to recover to the stage. Sometimes, I can even get in a Fire Hammer, that just feels so amazing.

I'm glad you're not whining about legal strategies like some sore losers. Have you ever lost to a Kirbycider yourself?

 

[Paxadin]

Understandable. I also often just either stand near a ledge for a quick Kirbycide, or start taunting, wait for the opponent to come at me, time properly and hit them with a smash attack.

Makes sense, I also like hitting opponents who try to recover to the stage. Sometimes, I can even get in a Fire Hammer, that just feels so amazing.

I'm glad you're not whining about legal strategies like some sore losers. Have you ever lost to a Kirbycider yourself?

Not particularly since I rarely find a good Kirby in FG, and I'm the only person I know who uses Kirby where I live.
Although I did get murdered by a Sonic only doing spin dashes in FG while using Kirby. Worst match up, couldn't ever land a hit. I just switched to Ness after though, it did the trick.

 

[Dutch Kirby]

Not particularly since I rarely find a good Kirby in FG, and I'm the only person I know who uses Kirby where I live.
Although I did get murdered by a Sonic only doing spin dashes in FG while using Kirby. Worst match up, couldn't ever land a hit. I just switched to Ness after though, it did the trick.

Understandable... I also don't know any other Kirby players personally, and only see some on this forum. And on For Glory, Kirby-using opponents are extremely rare.

And Sonic doesn't give me that much trouble, actually. I sometimes don't try to go for the Kirbycide, and just use Smash attacks and tilts a lot. That way, my win-loss ratio against Sonic is probably around 50/50. What other opponents do you have trouble with as a Kirby player?

 

[Elec]

A Kirby player myself. I think the Kirbycide/Dedecide is fair as you need more requirements than the Ganoncide as you need to know on the percent of your opponent, what character they are & the stage your playing on, whereas the Ganoncide is just "Hah, gotcha" & its over.

As for me, I almost never try to Kirbycide simply because its not reliable when compared to Kirby's other kill options.

 

[cwjakesteel]

Same, I normally never DDD-cide because the spit-out mix ups are more fun. Also as Kirby I would prefer to not absorb the ability because I think having a command grab is great, but maybe it's not so important for Kirby as it is for DDD.

 

[Asdioh]

This thread is going on so long ._.

Protip: if it was unfair, people would be winning tournaments with it and people would be calling for it to be banned. Neither of these things happen because not only do most people not fall for it, but oftentimes Kirby can die first, or get footstooled.

 

[Dutch Kirby]

This thread is going on so long ._.

Protip: if it was unfair, people would be winning tournaments with it and people would be calling for it to be banned. Neither of these things happen because not only do most people not fall for it, but oftentimes Kirby can die first, or get footstooled.

Well, I think it's interesting to see people back up their reasoning. The poll and replies so far are all in favour of Kirbycide, but it's interesting to see how people explain their opinions.

Anyways, most people don't fall for it? That depends on who you play against. On For Glory, many opponents do fall for it. Of course there are both competitive players and casual ones there, but still... When I started playing For Glory, I never expected so many people to actually fall for it. I mean, my cousin fell for it six battles in a row once, but he was 10-11 back then. I didn't think almost half of the For Glory mode players I defeated would fall for it that easily.

In some battles, I go near the ledge and just start swallowing, like in that battle against Roy I shared that video off. However, I also often like to engage in battle, not even try swallowing once, and then subtly going near a ledge. Because I haven't tried swallowing that battle, opponents will think I'm not thinking about Kirbycide. Then, when they don't expect it, if I see a chance, I swallow them, giving me an almost guranteed KO while often surviving myself, since most opponents won't even try breaking out.

 

[Asdioh]

If people are ignorant of something, that doesn't make it unfair. Character knowledge is very important in this game. The only people that would call something "cheap" are inexperienced people who wouldn't get far in a tournament anyway.

 

[Superfiremario]

It's part of Kirby's moveset and it kills you too so I think its fair.

 

[JAZZ_]

Technically if you were to get swallowed by Game accurate Kirby.. You're Dead. Period. End of story. (well your sucked into another dimension but idk if you can breathe in there so yea... dead)

So quit your whining and stop playing stupid.
Seriously its not hard to avoid.