Kirby help

[Zozefup]

I played Melee pretty hardcore as a Samus Main, I just got into Brawl about 2 weeks ago. I gave up Samus pretty quick and switched to Kirby. I've already gotten good enough to do decent in major tournaments just by reading all the stickys and watching Chudat videos, but theres still some huge holes in my game.

Here is my entire game. If any part gets countered, I have lots of problems. I need more options.

Low percents (0%) Grab
Pretty much the only way I can consistently get grabs is to run and shield right in front of them. When they hit my shield; grab.
Sometimes I run into sidestep if I think they are going to do an attack that will send me to far away to grab.

Any percent, but usually (35%-90%)
Full Jump Bair> Falling Bair > Full Jump Bair > Falling Bair repeat. Space the Falling Bair so they can't shield grab me. It been amazingly good for me. I'm surprised I don't see more players using it.

Sometimes I roll into Utilt, but it usually only gives me 20-30% per game.

High percents (90%-150%) Fsmash
Dair>Fsmash
Sidestep>Fsmash
Wait for them to land>Fsmash
Anytime they are in Fsmash range>Fsmash


Thats pretty much my whole game.


What I need to know:

More Grab techniques. How do you get grabs when they are a 0%?

What do you do when you get a grab at 20%? 40%? 60% 80% 100%? 120? 140+?
Recently after about 40% I've started doing grab>release. It recharges my Bair. I haven't been able to combo very often after them though. What grab>release options do I have?

If you and your opponent are both on opposite ends of Final D at 40%, whats your first instinct? (Run at them>? Turn around>Bair Spam?)

Is 'SH dodge' any good? I see some Kirbys use it, but I didn't see much use for it. It looks like they just do that and hope their opponent messes up? What situations should you use it? Whats going through their mind?

I've heard some people like Dtilt>Fsmash. Is that a good kill option? And how the heck do you land a Dtilt? You can't just stand their and spam it. If your goal was to land as many Dtilts as possible, what would you do?

Same goes for Nair. (I don't see chudat use it.. ever. Is it good?) When should I use it? What combos can you consistently land with it?

What do you do after the huge grab combo? Grab>Fthrow>Uair>Utilt>Bair. I usually full hop the Bair>Falling Bair>WoP. It only works once or twice max though. Chudat short hops the Bair and waits for them to land. If you SH the Bair and land, what are common follow ups?


To sum this all up, I really need a playstyle. Whats your playstyle? Whats going on in your head during the match?

 

[Asdioh]

More Grab techniques. How do you get grabs when they are a 0%?

If your opponent is smart, and expects it, you shouldn't attempt to grab too much, or you will get punished. Some Kirbys get into the mindset of "my opponent is at 0%, time to grab!" and that can lead into you taking more damage than when you finally land the grab.

I find Uptilt or Bair to be perfectly fine at 0% if it seems like you won't land a grab.

What do you do when you get a grab at 20%? 40%? 60% 80% 100%? 120? 140+?
Recently after about 40% I've started doing grab>release. It recharges my Bair. I haven't been able to combo very often after them though. What grab>release options do I have?

Kirby's grab release isn't very good at all. He has nothing "inescapable" from it. You can mindgame a few things, but they won't work most of the time:
-at high % I like to grab release->fsmash. If they screw up and do anything offensive (like try grabbing or a jab or something) fsmash will usually hit and KO them. If they shield it, that's not too good for you.
-if you think they expect you to fsmash from grab release, run in and regrab them. That gives you more pummels.
-dash attack sometimes works.

As for what throws to do at what percentages, it's personal preference, and knowledge of what angle certain characters fly at at certain percents. For example, I like to Fthrow ROB, G&W, Zelda, some others at around 20%, and follow up with a double jump Fair. It usually works pretty well. I hear some people say they try aerial hammers after fthrow, but it's something I personally never do.

However, Dthrow is the best option in most cases, since it does the most damage, and a good opponent will be able to avoid followups if they're careful. You can also simply dthrow and then chase opponents and regrab them as they land (shielding their hit if they do an aerial)

At very high percentages, especially under platforms like on Battlefield, Upthrow can KO.

Bthrow is Kirby's worst throw, but it has its time and place to be used. Preferably if it will throw them offstage.

If you and your opponent are both on opposite ends of Final D at 40%, whats your first instinct? (Run at them>? Turn around>Bair Spam?)

It all depends on the character and stuff. A combination of all three...I mix up my moves all the time, though Bair is always a good choice for spacing.

Is 'SH dodge' any good? I see some Kirbys use it, but I didn't see much use for it. It looks like they just do that and hope their opponent messes up? What situations should you use it? Whats going through their mind?

I've heard some people like Dtilt>Fsmash. Is that a good kill option? And how the heck do you land a Dtilt? You can't just stand their and spam it. If your goal was to land as many Dtilts as possible, what would you do?

*shrug*

I'm not so good at using Dtilt, it's what I need work on most probably. However, the obvious time to use it is when your opponent is in front of your, or you predict that they'll roll in front of you. I usually use uptilt or ftilt instead, but dtilt is good because of the tripping mechanic.

Same goes for Nair. (I don't see chudat use it.. ever. Is it good?) When should I use it? What combos can you consistently land with it?

It comes out relatively quickly, and has no landing lag. It also has low knockback, so if you manage to hit a grounded opponent, you can followup with jabs or a grab or something. I really only use it as a "combo breaker," it doesn't have many uses. If it came out just a little faster, it'd be great, and/or if it had a little more priority. Or less ending lag in the air. >_>
lolmetaknight. compare his nair to kirby's -_-

What do you do after the huge grab combo? Grab>Fthrow>Uair>Utilt>Bair. I usually full hop the Bair>Falling Bair>WoP. It only works once or twice max though. Chudat short hops the Bair and waits for them to land. If you SH the Bair and land, what are common follow ups?

Chudat's opponents need to learn to DI >_> he does that combo way too effectively, it's escapable for most characters.

If you SH the Bair and land, a dash grab or dash attack seem like sensible followups to me.

Really though, as I've been playing Kirby the past few months, I've noticed it's harder and harder to grab people at 0%, because everyone is learning how to play against Kirby. Even when I do grab at 0%, so many characters have ways to escape after the uair that it's not even worth it anymore. I find utilt->utilt->upsmash or something else to be possibly more effective against low % opponents, depending on character.

If your opponent is smart and does a double jump and airdodge after your fthrow->uair, you can predict it and chase them upwards, with more uairs or Bairs or something.

@_@ what I'm wondering is how you're doing well at tourneys after only two weeks of Brawl and Kirby. Is it just your Melee experience that helps so much?



edit: Wow it's really interesting doing an in-depth review of my own video. Sorry for doing it in your thread, ignore it if you want XD


here's a match of me just for the hell of it. Pretty much everything I do in here XD you might want to turn the sound off since my controller was near the camera. I do better in the beginning than later on. Also, it's wifi, and wifi sucks :[

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKvU0j6jvPc

0:04 - fthrow->uair ->whiffed reverse utilt because ROB escapes it.
0:18 - falling uair -> utilt ... fun combo :]
0:22 - how to use Stone.
0:31 - falling dair -> ftilt ... something I do often that is pretty much unpunishable even if they shield the ftilt. If they shield the whole dair, that's usually bad for you.
0:34 - grab release -> inhale mindgames? lolz
0:41 - spotdodge -> utilt ... THE greatest thing Kirby has on the ground, it helps me so much.
0:46 - Beep! spam ... epic much?
In this match I accidentally grab release a few times because he breaks free before I dthrow...as you can see, Kirby's grab release isn't advantageous for him, most of the time.
1:15 - dair->vulcan jab ... pretty hard to punish unless they grab at the right time.
You see him airdodge the top part of Final Cutter a few times in this match...Brawl is ******** like that >_>
1:41 - another spotdodge -> utilt.
1:46 - how NOT to use Stone.
3:00 - another spotdodge -> utilt.
3:05 - another dair -> ftilt.
3:19 - how NOT to space Bair.
3:32 - again.
3:40 - how to space Bair and land a fsmash?!
3:48 - dair -> fsmash that gets dodged. :[
3:51 - well-done Bairs. =D
4:11 - failure Bair.


here's another match: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKiLICvRLxg

First stock is pretty much epic ownage, and then I lose. Watch what happens when I try fthrow->uair->reverse utilt on his second stock. That's why I don't like that combo -_-

 

[Zozefup]

Wow, thanks for the response! That helps a ton. It's mainly my Melee experience and I'm getting help from really good players (Sofaking and Rookie). Kirby was my 2nd best in Melee somehow. And by doing decent, I just do average, I can beat most of the people no one has ever heard of at tournaments . I might be able to beat Rookie (best player in Indiana) now, but just because I have lots of Snake practice and he sucks at the match-up XD.

I mainly wrote that I do decent at tournaments so I would get intelligent responses. I didn't want any extremely basic stuff.


Quote:
"If you and your opponent are both on opposite ends of Final D at 40%, whats your first instinct? (Run at them>? Turn around>Bair Spam?)
It all depends on the character and stuff. A combination of all three...I mix up my moves all the time, though Bair is always a good choice for spacing."

Like what options do I have to mix it up? lol. I only know 2 options :*(

And how do you land Utilt at 0%? The only thing I've found is roll>Utilt and sometimes when I miss a Bair they try to run in and punish and I Utilt.

That awesome about Utilt>Utilt>Usmash though. I'll try it out


What part of Indiana are you from? Why haven't I seen you at any tournaments?! XD

 

[Asdioh]

I was about to ask the same >_> I've only been to 3 though...2 in Warsaw (where I live) and one in Michigan. I am moving to Fort Wayne for college next week though...where are YOU from?

Utilt->utilt->usmash isn't necessarily guaranteed, but most of the heavier characters don't tend to DI out of it.

It's great against Spacies. I love playing Wolf sometimes (even though he's broken as hell on wifi) because I can just uptilt him to like 30%, and then he will inevitably use his Reflector because it comes out fast and breaks my combo because it has a large hitbox. I predict the Reflector and shield it, and then uptilt him again or better yet, turn around and grab. I did it earlier today :]

As for landing utilt at 0%... roll->utilt works fairly well, but rolling into your opponent (frequently) is a "noobish" tactic. spotdodge->utilt works well, like I've said. Falling uair/nair/bair? -> utilt work pretty well. Utilt is just a good move by itself, you can just stand still and spam it against an approaching opponent and be pretty safe. A lot of times it will clash with their attack, and it comes out fast so you can do it again and hit them.

If you and your opponent are both on opposite ends of Final D at 40%, whats your first instinct? (Run at them>? Turn around>Bair Spam?)

I don't know, give me some examples, like, what character, and what they're doing. I really don't know what I would do, I kind of 'go with the flow' during matches. Look at the ones I posted, they might give you an idea of what I do when I have to approach an opponent.

Let's say it's Snake, since Snake is common and too good. He will likely be spamming grenades in my direction. Assuming I don't have his power, I will approach from the air, over grenades and landmines. Attacking with Dair is something I do by habit, but against Snake, he can just pull a grenade and shield the dair, and I will blow up. Snakes also like to pull a grenade and rolldodge so that you attack the spot they were just in, and hit a grenade, and again, blow up. Kirby's Bair is best here because it almost never hits dropped grenades, so you can space them and poke his shield.

So what I'd do: if I'm at lower % and he's trying to make me blow myself up, I'd space Bairs.

If I'm at higher % and he wants to kill me with uptilt, I will stay just a little outside his range. I might use a Final Cutter, but not too much because it's laggy. Spacing Bairs against Snake's utilt is just asking to get killed.... (refer to picture below) ... so what I might do instead is wait for him to uptilt, and run in and grab. Or run in, powershield the uptilt, and grab. This is all obviously risky...but playing Snake is risky because he's broken.

But like I said, it depends on their character, I guess. And my mood >_>

<-- pretty sure that Kirby was doing a well-spaced Bair, but Snake's invisible hitbox of utilt simply beats the tip of Kirby's foot. BECAUSE IT'S BROKEN.