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Just Starting as Ness...

NightOfFire

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
Messages
12
Location
Orange County, CA
Tl;dr at the bottom. Ok, first post on these boards. I lurk quite often on the Gfaqs message boards and am an ex-Falco player. I've recently decided to pick up Ness because I want a change of pace. And I like having a low tier character so my friend doesn't bish about me beating his Link with Falco. Anyway. My Ness game currently consists of shuffling fair and nair as well as using PK Fire for pressure and the bat for a finisher. I also throw in the occasional stomp as a combo starter at mid to high percentages. What I've found, however, is that Ness's approach game is a little bit different than Falco's. I can't just ***** SHB and dairs into pillaring. What I'm looking for here is some general Ness tips, some approach tips, and some good ways to edgeguard. Thanks for any help you guys can provide.

tl;dr: Looking for help with Ness's approach game, edgeguarding, and basic Ness strategies.
 

Ademisk

Smash Champion
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
2,759
Location
Kirkland, Washington
Add the bair to your finisher list, short hopped and shffled bairs can come out really fast, especially useful for approaching projectile users since its priority trumps almost everything(except for Sheik, Fox, and Falco).

Also, try to focus a good amount of time practicing your Recovery, you need to be able to sweetspot somewhere near 80% of the time, from any angle, to be decent at recovering with Ness.

In addition, learn his bat's range. Really learn where the tipper is, and learn to use it. Knock people just coming up on a recovery, it might be even better than Marth's for that purpose.

Use Ness's dair, it's wonderful. It has its own built in mindgame with the lag, high priority, a big long lasting hitbox. I personally use it a lot when I'm trying to fake an enemy out, use a dair way above their heads and then come down with a bair or fair.

Other than that, using Ness is a combination of spacing, timing, mindgames, and an overall cohesion of movement. Ness moves from one attack to another in a swift flow of jumps, double jumps, shffls, and wavedashes. Don't allow your enemy to interrupt your flow, and he can become a powerful force.


For your specifics, his approach is difficult, definitely master the DjCffls until you can do them lightning quick, they're your best bet for approach. Learn the spacing on his dash attack, the popup from the last spark is good for combing into attacks, and it has crazy long range. Fake the enemy out, and wavesmash into them, Ness has awesome wavesmash. Jump around, and trick the enemy into coming into a position where you can fair or bair them, and then keep pounding them, if you're fast enough you can carry them across the stage with nothing but fairs. Use your dair to fake people out, and even use it to attack, try to come in so they think you're just bluffing, and then actually hit them with it. His uair is also great, it has a hitbox on the side of his head, not just the top, so you can use it as an approach move with a DjC.

Edgeguarding too is tough. You basically have 4 choices, none of them spectacular.

A: Bat. Use it to knock enemies off trying to recover, doesn't work on many characters sweetspots. A good trick to use is, if you know the person excels at sweetspotting their recovery, PK Thunder them just outside their jump range, they'll be a little more confused than usual, and a little less likely to sweetspot their attack, though it's not 100%

B: PK Thunder. Tailwhipping is extremely difficult, but against a Fox or Falco, it can mean instant demise. At the very least, it's something they're forced to watch out for. Stand so you're just over the edge, and if your enemy looks like they'll still recover, veer the PK Thunder back to yourself and hit yourself with it. Worst case scenario, you'll be out of range of the enemy's attack. Best case scenario, you hit yourself just as the enemy is recovering, and they get hit by the mighty PK Thunder 2.

C: Dair. Not a good choice in my opinion. Too many recoveries outprioritize it, the lag is difficult to measure, and the meteor spike doesn't kill often enough against skilled players. The biggest problem you might have with this attack is if you time it wrong, and end up too low on the screen to recover with a PK Thunder. Or at a bad angle. Or you just **** up your recovery. Ness should be off the platform as little as possible.

D: Physically going after the enemy with an aerial. I highly reccomend this one in most cases. An fair can usually outpriorities most enemy aerials, and while it doesn't kill, it can keep your enemy off the ledge until you get into a position to bat or bair. The bair....well that's just obvious. Hello killing move. And against Ganondorf and Captain Falcon, the nair is pure hardcore ****(use it just above their recovery, so you don't get grabbed).

You can also try some of Simna's more...complicated PK Thunder techniques. An old favorite of mine is the PK Thunder False Edgeguard. Get an enemy off the ledge, but stay close to the ledge, as close as you dare. Send a PK Thunder after them then. Use the PK Thunder in a way that they're forced to recover over you(figure 8s work, as well as a simple curve) but make sure that you lead the PK Thunder back to yourself near the end. Just before the enemy lands on the other side of you, smack yourself with a PK Thunder. Also, say your goodbyes to your enemy.


Hope that was helpful.
 

EarthboundMun

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 16, 2003
Messages
58
Location
Florida
Personally, I do great comboing down throw into a forward smash. At higher percentages, when they roll a bit more away as a result, you'll have to move forward a little to smack them with the bat, but it's worth it. At high percentages, this is often a sure-fire kill, since moving forward a little bit just after the throw will insure a solid hit.

And I have to agree with Ademisk wholeheartedly about dair. I use it quite a bit in my Ness game, and it sets up for nice combos, as well. At higher percentages, I can usually combo immediately into an uair or bair, depending on which way they choose to fall and my current position. Also, dair is sweet in that it can break through most recovery moves. With precise timing, I can usually spike down a Falco, Fox or Marth into oblivion. A lot of timing, and a little luck. It's do-able, though.

PK Thunder. I guess it goes without saying that it's Ness' recovery move. It's just a shame that it's so easy to edgeguard and so easy to predict that people with fast spiking moves can demolish Ness, so it's generally a good idea to stay on the platform in most cases. Personally, I don't bother with tailwhipping except against Fox/Falco players. Instead, I like to intentionally assist players back to the platform by nailing them with PK Thunders. This way, I know where they're going to land, which sets them up for a dair or bair.

Experiment with that a bit. It works.

Just a few things to consider when working on playing Ness. Those're things that I do, but I don't play competitively (except amongst friends). Not for lack of wanting to, of course.

Figured I'd give some input.
 

Ademisk

Smash Champion
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
2,759
Location
Kirkland, Washington
Dthrow is only good for comboing into bairs and fairs. Smashes won't usually work, your opponent can DI too much. Fair works though, quite well, think of it as your most damaging throw move.
 

DD151

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
236
pk fire discourages space animals from recovering with phantasm/illusion

light shield edgehog works well against opponents with damaging up B's that sweetspot well; i guess it's particularly useful if you have trouble landing the bat as an edgeguard

and as ademisk said, learning how to recover consistently and intelligently is really important, since you don't want to end up dying every time you're knocked off the stage
 

Simna ibn Sind

THIS IS unMODNESS!
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 20, 2002
Messages
4,534
Location
1108 R St. Sacramento, CA 95811
Slippi.gg
SIND#745
hi nightoffire...havent seen u since gfaqs^_^

best way to get good is to play against wide varieties of players of wide varieties of skill levels....you can do that by downloading and joining and using the GSC

you can find info and DL links for the GSC here: http://www.smashwiki.com/wiki/GSC

i hope that helps u find lots of new ppl to smash with

btw here is the first ness video i ever saw...maybe you'll pick up things from it slowly as you advance.....a little more and more as u get better and better^_^: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9178320166049830385
 

NightOfFire

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
Messages
12
Location
Orange County, CA
Wow guys, thanks a lot. Simna, it's nice to see you *out of the entire GFAQs community* remembers me haha. Anyway, this stuff was really helpful. I generally play with my friend who uses Fox, Marth, and the occasional Link. I'm looking to join the competitive scene at some point next summer when I head off to college. Anyway, I will definitely take your suggestions into account next time I play my friends. You guys were seriously helpful. And Simna, those are some scary DJCs. Also, I'm joining the GSC.
 
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