Just looking for some general advice

[Zodiacx10]

Hello everyone, its been a while since I posted on smashboards since i stopped playing until recently. Anyway I was just wondering if i could get some quick advice on some stuff.

First biggest issue i have is i have some trouble playing against my friend who likes to put out a lot of hitboxes. everytime i try to go offstage to edgeguard or juggle him i get hit instead or trade. i know you can wait and read an air dodge for juggles and stuff but when i do that i just get hit away while waiting for the air dodge. what do you do when they come down with a move that hits below them or a sex kick that is very difficult to get around when you try to juggle them? i sometimes try to short hop to bait out a reaction but he just DIs away and doesnt do anything until i actually commit. the few times i successfully bait the attack and go in for the punish i just get with another move before i can get in. i can try to hit him an an angle that his moves hitbox isnt present but that usually doesnt work out for me. i feel like when i get him in the air i can only maybe connect one aerial without getting hit if im lucky then i just have to land and try to catch his landing hopefully. if he lands with an aerial then i should be able to just shield that and go in for the punish right? that's what i try to do but whenever i shield a move and go to punish i can never seem to, and i mean never lol. if i even try to it gets blocked or i get hit away or my grab attempt gets spot dodged and i get punished instead. so games with him boils down to him throwing out moves on my shield that i am never able to punish so i just block them and run away so he gets a better stage position until he conditions me to shield a lot and grabs me or punishes any offensive attempt i make on him to regain center stage. i usually dont run into these issues playings as mac since his tilts out of shield are quick enough and have lone enough range for me to punish things and i rarely try to juggle or go off stage to edgeguard with mac and if he throws moves i can just armor them or out range them no problem. but recently i've been wanting to play more characters than just mac so i was just looking for some advice. He usually plays Donkey Kong, Samus, Luigi. I usually play Mario, Falcon, Ganon.

Second thing is i have trouble finding people to play against to practice. i used to play with my friend every weekend and go to tournaments occasionally when i lived back home but ever since i joined the military its been difficult finding games. i don't own a car to travel to tournments/other peoples house to play games. i live in the dorms on base so most people dont have access to base to come to my place. and i can't play online because the internet on base is terrible. there are two people in my squadron who play but one of them is very new so he's not the best practice. the other friend is the one i mentioned in the other part, him and me are about equal i would like to say. but they both do a lot of other things in their free time so i usually can only get a couple hours a week in playing if im lucky. i tried making posts on the south carolina threads and the south carolina facebook page with little success. once i move off base and have a car it'll be easier but that isnt for a few years.

sorry for the wall of text that im sure nobody will read more than 20% of lol.

 

[MarioManTAW]

I'd suggest 2 things:
Weave/adjust your spacing slightly if he tries to throw out hitboxes.
Use your shift key when typing a wall of text.

 

[Captain Phobos]

If you have a decent internet connection, For Glory mode can be a good one to get practice, which can also help you improve your ledge guarding. You also might try characters that don't need to edge guard as much. For instance, Samus and Mewtwo can sit and charge their neutrals, and when your opponent gets back on stage, you'll have a nasty weapon to use against them. Cloud is also good with his limit break, and even if you feel like you need to go offstage, he has really good aerials.

 

[MarioManTAW]

If you have a decent internet connection, For Glory mode can be a good one to get practice, which can also help you improve your ledge guarding. You also might try characters that don't need to edge guard as much. For instance, Samus and Mewtwo can sit and charge their neutrals, and when your opponent gets back on stage, you'll have a nasty weapon to use against them. Cloud is also good with his limit break, and even if you feel like you need to go offstage, he has really good aerials.

He said he doesn't have good internet.

Also, I would add that you might want to pick up (or at least consider) Pit. He's a largely fundamentals-based character, like the others you play, and has some multihits that could give you an edge in juggling and edgeguarding (especially if combined with arrows).

 

[HYP3R]

If he's choosing an offensive option every time you get him in the air, you should start running underneath him and shield grab his landing.

Only try to edgeguard him when you know he has to burn his double jump. Based on the characters you said he likes to play, if he still tries to challenge you while you edgeguard him and you trade, he'll lose his stock for not respecting you.

You said he has a habit of spotdodging your grab attempts, switch it up and go for Mario/Falcon jabs instead. It's a simple punish, and once you get comfortable punishing them you can start getting harder reads if he doesn't adapt.

 

[Zodiacx10]

If he's choosing an offensive option every time you get him in the air, you should start running underneath him and shield grab his landing.

i wrote that i try to do that every time but after i block it and go in to do anything i get hit with some other move or he blocks my move. i can never seem to punish anything out of shield ever with any character and its really frustrating.

Only try to edgeguard him when you know he has to burn his double jump. Based on the characters you said he likes to play, if he still tries to challenge you while you edgeguard him and you trade, he'll lose his stock for not respecting you.

if i trade with DK's forward air i die. if i trade with luigi misfire i die. if i try to edgeguard his samus her f-air disjoint simply out ranges any of my moves. also if he has a double jump and can recover high do i just not go for an edgeguard and just stay on stage?

You said he has a habit of spotdodging your grab attempts, switch it up and go for Mario/Falcon jabs instead. It's a simple punish, and once you get comfortable punishing them you can start getting harder reads if he doesn't adapt.

i mean there are plenty of matches i play with him where jab is literally the only move i can hit him with occasionally but that isnt going to win me any games since he's move likely to kill me before i jab him to death. sometimes i try to read the spotdodge and opt for a pivot grab but if i do that and he just forward smashes me instead of spot dodging then its game over lol

 

[Zodiacx10]

I would add that you might want to pick up (or at least consider) Pit. He's a largely fundamentals-based character, like the others you play, and has some multihits that could give you an edge in juggling and edgeguarding (especially if combined with arrows).

sure, i might consider it. pit does have a disjointed hitbox with his sword which is nice for not trading with moves if you space it really well. but i know its me just playing poorly and not my character choice. i mainly want to work on my mario

 

[HYP3R]

i wrote that i try to do that every time but after i block it and go in to do anything i get hit with some other move or he blocks my move. i can never seem to punish anything out of shield ever with any character and its really frustrating.

That's why you want to force your shield directly underneath his landing to get the grab.
Say you get him in the air and he tries to land with Luigi N-Air, look at where he is landing, run to the spot and hold your shield. He will have no choice in the matter because he's already committed to the N-Air.

if i trade with DK's forward air i die. if i trade with luigi misfire i die. if i try to edgeguard his samus her f-air disjoint simply out ranges any of my moves. also if he has a double jump and can recover high do i just not go for an edgeguard and just stay on stage?

DK you should challenge his recovery instead of whatever move he decides to throw out. Falcon D-Air is perfect for example. Luigi Misfire is just bad luck, no comment. You just have to focus on getting rid of Luigi's double jump. And Samus is the hardest to edgeguard because she has a tether. If you aren't confident in your edgeguarding then yes it's usually better to try and trap the ledge and maintain stage control.

i mean there are plenty of matches i play with him where jab is literally the only move i can hit him with occasionally but that isnt going to win me any games since he's move likely to kill me before i jab him to death. sometimes i try to read the spotdodge and opt for a pivot grab but if i do that and he just forward smashes me instead of spot dodging then its game over lol

I'm not saying all you should do is jab, I'm saying jab is your tool to deal with his spotdodges. He whiffs a move and thinks "oh no I need to spotdodge because I made a mistake." Assuming you're a reasonable distance away from him, instead of dash grabbing like you usually do, just walk up to him and jab. It will eat up the spotdodge. If you keep punishing him for it eventually he might stop spotdodging altogether.

 

[KirbCider]

sorry for the wall of text that im sure nobody will read more than 20% of lol.

I'll give this bit of advice first: It'd help a ton to break it up into smaller bits instead of just one big wall. When in smaller portions it makes it so much easier to read due to being easier on the eyes. It may make it look longer, but it will look nicer and readable.

First biggest issue i have is i have some trouble playing against my friend who likes to put out a lot of hitboxes. everytime i try to go offstage to edgeguard or juggle him i get hit instead or trade. i know you can wait and read an air dodge for juggles and stuff but when i do that i just get hit away while waiting for the air dodge.

Correct me if I'm wrong and sorry for assuming this, but judging from your icon and the fact you have Little Mac as your Main...

Are you using Little Mac during this? If so, it's really not wise to go off stage for an edge guard as I don't think Little Mac benefits from that at all. If you're not using Little Mac then my advice would be to watch how he recovers. If he's throwing out attacks while trying to get back to the stage then don't try to challenge them. If your character has a counter (minus Shulk and Little Mac for this), you can always counter him off stage to send him further away from it and then make it back to the stage safely yourself.

It may also depend on the characters you use as well. Some just do poorly off stage and trying to edge guard them by going off stage really isn't the best choice for them. Sometimes you don't even have to leave the stage at all. Just read their get-up.

Or if anything, you can Edge Trump them and get them that way.

what do you do when they come down with a move that hits below them or a sex kick that is very difficult to get around when you try to juggle them? i sometimes try to short hop to bait out a reaction but he just DIs away and doesnt do anything until i actually commit. the few times i successfully bait the attack and go in for the punish i just get with another move before i can get in. i can try to hit him an an angle that his moves hitbox isnt present but that usually doesnt work out for me. i feel like when i get him in the air i can only maybe connect one aerial without getting hit if im lucky then i just have to land and try to catch his landing hopefully. if he lands with an aerial then i should be able to just shield that and go in for the punish right? that's what i try to do but whenever i shield a move and go to punish i can never seem to, and i mean never lol. if i even try to it gets blocked or i get hit away or my grab attempt gets spot dodged and i get punished instead. so games with him boils down to him throwing out moves on my shield that i am never able to punish so i just block them and run away so he gets a better stage position until he conditions me to shield a lot and grabs me or punishes any offensive attempt i make on him to regain center stage. i usually dont run into these issues playings as mac since his tilts out of shield are quick enough and have lone enough range for me to punish things and i rarely try to juggle or go off stage to edgeguard with mac and if he throws moves i can just armor them or out range them no problem. but recently i've been wanting to play more characters than just mac so i was just looking for some advice. He usually plays Donkey Kong, Samus, Luigi. I usually play Mario, Falcon, Ganon.

Sometimes it's wiser to do nothing than try to punish something. In other words, sometimes defense is a better option.

Some things just cannot be punished as there's plenty of moves that are safe on shield. Trying to punish these safe moves will only end up in you getting punished instead. You also have to consider the opponents speed and range. If they outrange you then your attack isn't going to reach while theirs will. Have you also tried Tomahawking instead of going for an attack right after short hop? Basically, it's just you going for a grab after short hop/jump instead. Or again, just fake them out by doing nothing.

See what they do when you make them think you're going for something.

It honestly just sounds like you have a problem reading him, or you make your options too predictable with him. You also have to remember you can't rely on super armor forever to save you. While it's a good perk for Little Mac it will make you more sloppy with other characters given how your used to having a bit of protection. You aren't allowed to be as reckless as usual.

Though, since I don't main Little Mac I can't give any true advice directly for Little Mac, just general advice.

You may try the Little Mac section of the forums and see if they can help you out.

Second thing is i have trouble finding people to play against to practice. i used to play with my friend every weekend and go to tournaments occasionally when i lived back home but ever since i joined the military its been difficult finding games. i don't own a car to travel to tournments/other peoples house to play games. i live in the dorms on base so most people dont have access to base to come to my place. and i can't play online because the internet on base is terrible. there are two people in my squadron who play but one of them is very new so he's not the best practice. the other friend is the one i mentioned in the other part, him and me are about equal i would like to say. but they both do a lot of other things in their free time so i usually can only get a couple hours a week in playing if im lucky. i tried making posts on the south carolina threads and the south carolina facebook page with little success. once i move off base and have a car it'll be easier but that isnt for a few years.

Well, I was gonna say this was something I could for sure help with, but the more I read it the more difficult it became trying to find the correct advice. If the internet there is truly terrible then looking for opponents online may not be the best option then.

However, if the internet were better looking online would have certainly been the best choice for you.

Without a car for travel it definitely makes going to local areas much harder as well. It's honestly safe to assume your a bit screwed in the finding opponents area due to these limitations sadly. Unless you can find someone who won't mind a sucky connection, or at the very least find a way to have your own connection there's just not much you can really do but play against the person you've been Smashing against. After all, it's not necessarily a bad thing that you only have him to go against.

Having a long term Smash partner can be beneficial even if they're the only ones you got.

You both learn and adapt to each other, so you're both constantly improving and developing new habits and so forth. At the very least you're still getting practice in with another human opponent, so that's not so bad at all. Sadly though, that's all I really got.