Smash 3DS Just got SSB3DS: RIP wavedashing...

[S_B]

Surprised I've not seen more gripes about this...

So now, when you land while having recently airdodged, not only do you not autocancel but instead you experience landing lag. In fact, the only way to not experience lag is to make sure to not shield until your character's feet are firmly on the ground.

I mean, DAMN, they went to great lengths to ensure that WDing didn't even come close to making it into SSB4. I have to retrain myself to not shield as I land any longer, and THAT is gonna take some effort...

 

[Narpas_sword]

you've not seen more gripes, because everyone got over it about 10 min after we found out...

 

[S_B]

you've not seen more gripes, because everyone got over it about 10 min after we found out...

You mean like how people still haven't gotten over it being missing from Brawl? (or at least declaring melee superior because of WDing)

I'm not upset: I'll adapt. Just surprised that it's so clear that deliberate action was taken on the part of Namco to ensure nothing even similar to it existed in the game.

 

[Doruge]

I don't think the landing lag was added just to prevent wavedashing...

 

[Loki]

You mean like how people still haven't gotten over it being missing from Brawl? (or at least declaring melee superior because of WDing)

I'm not upset: I'll adapt. Just surprised that it's so clear that deliberate action was taken on the part of Namco to ensure nothing even similar to it existed in the game.

It wasnt made to "put the last nail on the Melee coffin". It was made to nerf air-dodging as it was really strong in brawl. Wavedashing was never intended to exist to begin with, so dont hate on the programmers for fixing what they never intended to program in the first place.

 

[JipC]

Momentum based airdodging already cut out wavedashing from the picture.
It is annoying since I'll sometimes accidentally airdodge instead of shield but its just another thing we have to get used to. If they simply just made it so it's only one airdodge per airtime it wouldn't be so much of a problem

 

[S_B]

Momentum based airdodging already cut out wavedashing from the picture.
It is annoying since I'll sometimes accidentally airdodge instead of shield but its just another thing we have to get used to. If they simply just made it so it's only one airdodge per airtime it wouldn't be so much of a problem

Yeah, this is the issue for me as well. I can deal with it, it'll just take some getting used to.

It wasnt made to "put the last nail on the Melee coffin". It was made to nerf air-dodging as it was really strong in brawl. Wavedashing was never intended to exist to begin with, so dont hate on the programmers for fixing what they never intended to program in the first place.

No one is "hating" on anything.

I'm just commenting on it because I was surprised, that's all.

 

[木西Galaxy]

Surprised I've not seen more gripes about this...

So now, when you land while having recently airdodged, not only do you not autocancel but instead you experience landing lag. In fact, the only way to not experience lag is to make sure to not shield until your character's feet are firmly on the ground.

I mean, DAMN, they went to great lengths to ensure that WDing didn't even come close to making it into SSB4. I have to retrain myself to not shield as I land any longer, and THAT is gonna take some effort...

I feel this is greatly relevant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmDkNkNPWYY&list=LLhxDK7SU-5J6esXE9f-cxUg&index=4
(Got 10 posts just to post this link)

 

[Reila]

Nothing of value was lost.

 

[Dsull]

I love how the biggest complaint about smash post melee is the lack of wavedashing, and not the speed.

Wavedashing was a GLITCH. Cutting animations down, removing landing lag, dodging while moving and being able to stop and attack at any point is clearly a damn glitch especially when you are using the standing animation when doing it rather than a sliding/walking one. I for one am glad its gone, but i wouldnt mind the speed coming back.

I admit brawl was dumb for competitiveness, but it wasnt because of lack of wavedash or the slowness, it was the tripping. Thank GOD they removed that.

 

[LIQUID12A]

I'm pretty sure everyone not a Melee player doesn't care.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I love how the biggest complaint about smash post melee is the lack of wavedashing, and not the speed.

Wavedashing was a GLITCH. Cutting animations down, removing landing lag, dodging while moving and being able to stop and attack at any point is clearly a damn glitch especially when you are using the standing animation when doing it rather than a sliding/walking one. I for one am glad its gone, but i wouldnt mind the speed coming back.

I admit brawl was dumb for competitiveness, but it wasnt because of lack of wavedash or the slowness, it was the tripping. Thank GOD they removed that.

There was quite a bit more with Brawl that was brother some. Match length, tripping, the domination of MK, removal of many fun mechanics from Melee, and ledge mechanics.

Its more the fluid motion that Melee had which made it super fun to play. Hard to describe. But, after doing Brawl from 08-11 and 11-present melee has really good fluidity about it. It will be missed.

 

[Raijinken]

Rest in piece indeed, Wavedashing had its time to shine. At least there's no counterintuitive barrier to skilled play now.

 

[Narpas_sword]

At least there's no counterintuitive barrier to skilled play now.

SEX

Statement
Explanation
eXample.

You forgot the E and the X.

please, continue.

 

[GeNo-BreaKer]

I love how the biggest complaint about smash post melee is the lack of wavedashing, and not the speed.

Wavedashing was a GLITCH. Cutting animations down, removing landing lag, dodging while moving and being able to stop and attack at any point is clearly a damn glitch especially when you are using the standing animation when doing it rather than a sliding/walking one. I for one am glad its gone, but i wouldnt mind the speed coming back.

I admit brawl was dumb for competitiveness, but it wasnt because of lack of wavedash or the slowness, it was the tripping. Thank GOD they removed that.

 

[Raijinken]

SEX

Statement
Explanation
eXample.

You forgot the E and the X.

please, continue.

I've said it in so many other threads, I'll shorten it here:
Explanation: Wavedashing is an unintuitive technical input, no known techniques in Smash4 are either comparably technical or have a similarly unrelated chain of inputs to output. This, in my opinion, is a very good thing for Smash4's competitive scene.

eXamples:
Wavedashing is technically demanding and the relation of cause to effect is not intuitive:
Airdodge (no other inputs allowed) + Ground (landing lag, character-property-based skidding) = quick movement and non-dash attacks? No amount of explanation can make that into an obvious conclusion given the inputs.

Pivot attacks (most technical Smash4 technique known to me, feel free to direct me to information about things you might find more technically demanding):
Turn (directional change, often with animation lag) + Attack (Damage hitbox typically in facing direction) = direction-changed attack, animation lag skipped. One property is changed, all else is exactly as expected given the same inputs without precise timing.

See also: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodBadBugs

 

[CitizenSNIPS]

I can live without wavedashing but losing that AND dashdancing is hard to get over. Getting used to the constant smashing (hur hur hur) of buttons then to just totally lose that is hard to deal with.

 

[Kaiza]

I dunno guys what did you honestly expect

 

[Narpas_sword]

Intentionally leaving it in gane

I've said it in so many other threads, I'll shorten it here:
Explanation: Wavedashing is an unintuitive technical input, no known techniques in Smash4 are either comparably technical or have a similarly unrelated chain of inputs to output. This, in my opinion, is a very good thing for Smash4's competitive scene.

eXamples:
Wavedashing is technically demanding and the relation of cause to effect is not intuitive:
Airdodge (no other inputs allowed) + Ground (landing lag, character-property-based skidding) = quick movement and non-dash attacks? No amount of explanation can make that into an obvious conclusion given the inputs.

Pivot attacks (most technical Smash4 technique known to me, feel free to direct me to information about things you might find more technically demanding):
Turn (directional change, often with animation lag) + Attack (Damage hitbox typically in facing direction) = direction-changed attack, animation lag skipped. One property is changed, all else is exactly as expected given the same inputs without precise timing.

See also: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodBadBugs

Ah, i see.

So what you were stating as fact, was rather, an opinion.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

Sometimes I'm glad I didn't play any of the previous smash installments so I don't have to deal with these things

 

[D-idara]

You mean like how people still haven't gotten over it being missing from Brawl? (or at least declaring melee superior because of WDing)

I'm not upset: I'll adapt. Just surprised that it's so clear that deliberate action was taken on the part of Namco to ensure nothing even similar to it existed in the game.

The landing lag was added to prevent a predominance of defensive play, which is something Melee players complained about.

 

[Raijinken]

Intentionally leaving it in gane


Ah, i see.

So what you were stating as fact, was rather, an opinion.

Indeed, as what constitutes intuitivity is purely a matter of opinion in the first place, and we've not had Smash4 long enough to prove my statement either way.

Either way, I think a lower technical barrier is good for the game's competitive growth (regardless of the effect it has on competitive PLAY), fun as wavedashing was once I learned it half a decade into my Melee play.

 

[S_B]

I really didn't mean to open Pandora's box here or anything, only to express my surprise that Z/L canceling are completely gone from the game.

I can understand not wanting to bring WDing back. What surprised me was the fact that canceling of any kind didn't return.

As @ 木西Galaxy pointed out, there are definitely some advanced techs for certain characters to eliminate landing lag, but not ALL characters have it. I wonder if we'll see this changed in a later patch...

 

[PeachPlumPear]

Wavedashing was gone from Brawl as well so I don't know why you would expect it in Smash 4.

As for Z/L Cancelling, I believe there's a technique where you can shorten your landing lag from air dodges significantly, but I forget where the thread is. Basically there are frames at the end of an air dodge that you can cancel to input an aerial attack, and if you do so at the right moment, you will not only have the air dodge invulnerability as you reach the ground, but you will also cancel the aerial and most of the landing lag associated with it. At least that was my understanding of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmDkNkNPWYY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1tlXgy8-bE

EDIT: Also all characters can do this. But only some of them can do it from a short-hop.

 

[S_B]

Wavedashing was gone from Brawl as well so I don't know why you would expect it in Smash 4.

What surprised me was the effort put in by Namco to ensure there was nothing even CLOSE to WDing in the game.

And yeah, I've read up on the canceling thing. I just need to work it into my own game now...

 

[StarBot]

So it was a giltch, but Sakurai left it out because of how popular the hardcore players.

Okay thanks.

 

[shapular]

I really didn't mean to open Pandora's box here or anything, only to express my surprise that Z/L canceling are completely gone from the game.

I can understand not wanting to bring WDing back. What surprised me was the fact that canceling of any kind didn't return.

As @ 木西Galaxy pointed out, there are definitely some advanced techs for certain characters to eliminate landing lag, but not ALL characters have it. I wonder if we'll see this changed in a later patch...

L-cancelling is gone, but plenty of aerials have low landing lag so it isn't needed. The ones that are still laggy are generally the ones that shouldn't be able to be spammed.

 

[Orngeblu]

Good one.