Just Another Smash 4 Complaint Agree or Disagree?

[THERyanP7]

Not sure where to put this so I'll throw it here... I know I can't be the only one who's come across a spot dodge or shield happy player online! And I know I can't be the only one who notices that there is absolutely zero post shield or dodge lag which helps that player instantly attack you once he dodges or shields! It's by far the most frustrating thing in Smash 4 along with other annoying problems but I'll stick with this one for now. It almost ruins the game for me and I know it's the troll players fault for doing it but you gotta think the developers could see that coming! Losing to guys cause they can shield and dodge like no other is honestly no fun for anyone and I can't see how it's fun for the people who do it! Please tell me if I'm crazy or not but I know there's something wrong going on when Falco and Marth are being out sped by a Bowser... I'm no slouch in smash and I'm not trying to be a ****** player but it seriously makes me wanna give up on this game! someone else has to be noticing this stuff right? And if anyone could shed some light on specific changes from previous smash games to this one when it comes to the lag differences I'd appreciate it!

 

[Cthulhu_MD]

I'm not sure if this is how it works online, but my guess is that they're doing to compensate for the lag spikes that can occur in the game or they're attempting to make sure that if they do get hit, them spot dodging/shielding would take into effect the lag and make it so they don't suffer any damage.

Again, I'm not sure that's how it works.

For the shield happy players, just keep grabbing them and throw them off. It'll disrupt them for a bit.

Not too sure what to do with spot dodgers, except have an attack that lingers or keeps going, like Marth's Side B or something.

 

[THERyanP7]

I had a bit of success with Falco against a spot dodging Bowser but ultimately lost due to me dash attacking, him spot dodging and instant over smash or even browsers spinning attack (not sure the input) which randomly goes through alot of moves this proves to be almost an unstoppable combo sometimes especially against my main, Ness since alot of his moves last long and have movement lag shield happy players aren't too much of a problem just annoying especially when theyre powerful characters like Bowser but the spot dodging is what is really ridiculous. I never had too much of a problem with it until tonight which prompted me to write this whole thing haha but there's gotta be a difference in the post lag when it comes to spot dodging from other smash games cause I don't remember spot dodging and shielding all the time being a viable strategy in melee, brawl or even PM.

 

[THERyanP7]

And what really pissed me off was my strategy against the shield happy bowser was to just neutral B his shield with Marth and break it but I would nail bowser with it and his shield would not break! Even after charging for a bit which eventually led to my demise! I've used it with alot of success before but for some reason that bowser was invincible! He wasn't exceptionally good or anything just mastered the arat or shieldin and spot dodging.... that *******!

 

[Vic]

Kind of a general tip but this type of play is pretty easy to bait out or work in your advantage. Best bet would be to play very defensive and have the bowser approach you; granted, his approach in sm4sh is better than it has been it still kind of puts him in an awkward spot, especially if it's a bowser who loves shield-grabbing and spot dodging. If he tries to grab pull the same **** on him: spot dodge, grab, punish. Rinse and repeat.

 

[THERyanP7]

Kind of a general tip but this type of play is pretty easy to bait out or work in your advantage. Best bet would be to play very defensive and have the bowser approach you; granted, his approach in sm4sh is better than it has been it still kind of puts him in an awkward spot, especially if it's a bowser who loves shield-grabbing and spot dodging. If he tries to grab pull the same **** on him: spot dodge, grab, punish. Rinse and repeat.

I see what you're saying but I refuse to drop myself to that low level of play! I wanna be able to beat those types of people by playing right and showing them a better way of playing!... but this smash rewards defensive play too much and it just doesn't work sometimes... I dare to say this guy was a pro at spot dodging I've never seen a guy so quick with it especially with Bowser but I just wish there was a better way to handle these players the right way not by stooping down to their style of play! And that damn spinning attack just goes through everything! But thanks for the help anyway!

 

[Roukiske]

Many threads like this have come and go. For those who have less competitive experience I can see where you are coming from. The thing about spot dodges and rolls are that they are fast, but not invincible. They actually are very punishable especially if you see it coming, which is what you will see many smarter players doing.

If you are going straight pure offense without thinking about what the opponent is going to do, you're going to always be attacking where they are, which will never land you a hit. What you should be thinking about is where they are going to be (FUTURAMA!!!). Here's a few things you can do to anticipate a roll (behind you):

• Run at them and stop where they would normally end if if they rolled behind you. I don't combo into rest anymore because now people dodge into them. Use something quick like most character's down-smash.
• Short hop at them but instead of attack them, wait a moment and do a back-air. Most useful on characters who have back-airs like Falcon.
• Run at them, stop, charge a smash attack behind you. This is risky since if they don't roll you're going to get punished. Good reward for a good read though.

Hope you get the picture here. On rolling away do something like a dash attack and on spot dodges you have to delay an attack or use one that has a lot of active frames. Shield spam = grab. If you punish them enough they might change their playstyle. This would represent a good player. If they don't then you can punish all day.

Also, a side note on playstyle:

You don't have to be all offensive, which is what I'm getting from here correct me if I'm wrong. If you want to be good you have to be able to play defensively as well, with balance of course. There's nothing wrong with blocking an attack and punishing it (Bowser has many moves that can be punished with a simple shield). I've heard people say they never use the shield or dodge. That amazes me really. You should be able to use all the tools the game gives you, otherwise you will lose against the tools that counter you.

 

[Mysteltainn]

I've met quite a few roll spammers. My answer is almost always switching to Shulk with his hilarious D-Smash and short-hop N-Airs that linger. Those types of players will almost always fail against this, because these same people often don't know how to fight differently once they get stomped, and will more often than not leave once you figure them out.

 

[THERyanP7]

Many threads like this have come and go. For those who have less competitive experience I can see where you are coming from. The thing about spot dodges and rolls are that they are fast, but not invincible. They actually are very punishable especially if you see it coming, which is what you will see many smarter players doing.

If you are going straight pure offense without thinking about what the opponent is going to do, you're going to always be attacking where they are, which will never land you a hit. What you should be thinking about is where they are going to be (FUTURAMA!!!). Here's a few things you can do to anticipate a roll (behind you):

• Run at them and stop where they would normally end if if they rolled behind you. I don't combo into rest anymore because now people dodge into them. Use something quick like most character's down-smash.
• Short hop at them but instead of attack them, wait a moment and do a back-air. Most useful on characters who have back-airs like Falcon.
• Run at them, stop, charge a smash attack behind you. This is risky since if they don't roll you're going to get punished. Good reward for a good read though.

Hope you get the picture here. On rolling away do something like a dash attack and on spot dodges you have to delay an attack or use one that has a lot of active frames. Shield spam = grab. If you punish them enough they might change their playstyle. This would represent a good player. If they don't then you can punish all day.

Also, a side note on playstyle:

You don't have to be all offensive, which is what I'm getting from here correct me if I'm wrong. If you want to be good you have to be able to play defensively as well, with balance of course. There's nothing wrong with blocking an attack and punishing it (Bowser has many moves that can be punished with a simple shield). I've heard people say they never use the shield or dodge. That amazes me really. You should be able to use all the tools the game gives you, otherwise you will lose against the tools that counter you.

Thanks! Great input! I think another problem was some slight lag since it was online which threw my shield timing off but don't get me wrong I shield and roll effectively when I need to its just I hate playing guys who use it so much. Like I said I usually don't have a problem facing these guys especially bowsers but damn that dude was quick with it he could be good if he wasn't such a *******! Haha but i guess I could tweak my defensive game! Thanks for the tips!

 

[THERyanP7]

I've met quite a few roll spammers. My answer is almost always switching to Shulk with his hilarious D-Smash and short-hop N-Airs that linger. Those types of players will almost always fail against this, because these same people often don't know how to fight differently once they get stomped, and will more often than not leave once you figure them out.

..... I can't stand Shulk so I can't do that haha but I see what you're saying I need to find an effective plan using Ness

 

[Vic]

I see what you're saying but I refuse to drop myself to that low level of play! I wanna be able to beat those types of people by playing right and showing them a better way of playing!... but this smash rewards defensive play too much and it just doesn't work sometimes... I dare to say this guy was a pro at spot dodging I've never seen a guy so quick with it especially with Bowser but I just wish there was a better way to handle these players the right way not by stooping down to their style of play! And that damn spinning attack just goes through everything! But thanks for the help anyway!

A playstyle is to each their own friend. If this "low-level" play was enough to beat you why would he cease?

 

[Teh Sandwich]

The sheild in this game is the worst of the series. It locks you in for a few frames if you sheild without getting hit. If your opponent is shielding every time you approach; short hop at them, and don't throw out an aireal attack. Just fast fall to the ground then either start jabbing or throw a grab. (If they spot dodge when you land in front of them, the jab will always hit) Your opponent won't be able to drop sheild fast enough to hit/grab you first.

 

[THERyanP7]

A playstyle is to each their own friend. If this "low-level" play was enough to beat you why would he cease?

Tis true! That's why I'm looking for a good way to beat it using my style of play! It's just no fun for either of us (I don't see how it could fun playing like that) but I can have fun getting my ass handed to me by getting combo'd to death but it just ruins the game when people play like that

 

[THERyanP7]

The sheild in this game is the worst of the series. It locks you in for a few frames if you sheild without getting hit. If your opponent is shielding every time you approach; short hop at them, and don't throw out an aireal attack. Just fast fall to the ground then either start jabbing or throw a grab. (If they spot dodge when you land in front of them, the jab will always hit) Your opponent won't be able to drop sheild fast enough to hit/grab you first.

Hmmm.. good idea I need to try this I would try short hopping and doing ness fair to try and hit him or atleast land behind him but I would always hit his shield and it would warp my landing to land directly in front of him and... BOOM! ha like I said lag made my timing a bit off but I'll try these suggestions later on when I face another troll (it shouldn't take long on for glory) haha

 

[Ferblantier]

..... I can't stand Shulk so I can't do that haha but I see what you're saying I need to find an effective plan using Ness

Ness' dash attack is really good at catching rolls.

 

[THERyanP7]

Ness' dash attack is really good at catching rolls.

Yeah I know but the problem wasn't rolling it was the spot dodging which can really screw Ness since its a multi hit move and he's locked into the move for a few frames