Jigglypuff's Grab Game?

[MarioMeteor]

What do you think of Jigglypuff's grabs and throws and her grab game in general? I find her grab game to be very unorthodox. Her throws are great for putting opponents in awkward positions, but the main problem I have with it is Jigglypuff's lack of grab follow up options. Her back throw is made for offstage ****, her forward throw does some good damage and I kinda like the weird angle it knocks them in, her up throw is great for opponents who don't have good options coming down, and her down throw...meh.

 

[PandaEffect]

Personally, I only use the grab in order to condition people to stop blocking and falling with aerials more than anything.
Sort of, like an investment for a future moment in a match where they will not block or will not fall with an aerial because of earlier occasions.

Other than that, nair out of shield is so good that it makes her grabs almost useless other than for positioning.
Whether your nair hits or not you can usually either retreat, crossup , or try to follow up / techchase depending on percents.

For really laggy attacks, rising dair, up smash, or plain rest is a way better option out of shield compared to nair or grab.

I still feel like grabbing is important to lower the pace of the match, positioning, and conditioning since I feel like hitting them with a nair out of shield twice in a row is not as frustrating as being grabbed twice in a row.
Oh and don't forget to pummel at mid-high percents since Jiggs' pummel is pretty strong.

 

[Zegend]

Tomahawking opponents who repeatedly shield your aerials is a good mixup option. Also Jigglypuff's pummel does around 3-4% I think, so try to get at least one in there when you get a grab.
And while it may not do much, down throw is just too hilarious for me to not use.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Tomahawking opponents who repeatedly shield your aerials is a good mixup option. Also Jigglypuff's pummel does around 3-4% I think, so try to get at least one in there when you get a grab.
And while it may not do much, down throw is just too hilarious for me to not use.

True. Jigglypuff probably has one of the best pummels in the game, not to mention the best facial expressions. Look at its face whenever it throws somebody.

 

[pikazz]

I love jigglypuff grab and throws, almost all her throws are ment to be position in the air and the fact the down throw is the coolest looking of all her throws!

 

[TSKHAN]

Everything about it sucks. punish shields with pound. Seriously she throws way too far and yet doesn't have a good kill throw. And the angle for forward throw is terrible for gimping, the angle for backthrow is mediocre at best, and you can't even gimp anyone in this game so it's useless.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Everything about it sucks. punish shields with pound. Seriously she throws way too far and yet doesn't have a good kill throw. And the angle for forward throw is terrible for gimping, the angle for backthrow is mediocre at best, and you can't even gimp anyone in this game so it's useless.

First of all, don't punish shields with Pound because a full shield will survive and you'll get shieldgrabbed. Second of all, forward throw is used for damage and putting opponents in awkward positions, back throw is used to get opponents off stage. Nobody said anything about gimping.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Her throws are meh......
No follow ups and really only 1 actually sends opponents offstage reliably Bthrow.
Her pummel is very slow even if it's 3% so it's kinda situational.
I mean they all deal 10 or 11% so that's ok, but really none kill anyways so overall it's kinda poor overall if you compare it to other characters.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I wish up throw KOd. That alone would make her so much better.

 

[TSKHAN]

First of all, don't punish shields with Pound because a full shield will survive and you'll get shieldgrabbed. Second of all, forward throw is used for damage and putting opponents in awkward positions, back throw is used to get opponents off stage. Nobody said anything about gimping.

Well don't punish a fresh shield with pound, but punish excessive shielding with it. Down air is good for shield pressure before you want to pound.

The grabs are absolutely useless for anything but dmg (except back throw which is decent-ish), and even then it's a pretty slow and unsafe way to rack up dmg, especially seeing how slow jiggs is on the ground.

Forward throw doesn't put them in an especially awkward position, the opponent is facing jiggs and is too far away for her to do anything. doing it off the stage gives the opponent a lot of options to get back on stage since it sends you up and out. It's really only a bad position if it's someone with a bad forward air and they for some reason decide to approach a jiggs before they land.

Backthrow gets them off stage in a better way but what's the point if you aren't going to gimp them. You could try to rack up dmg or fence of pain (yes sorry but it's not a wall anymore, its a broken fence) but back throw sometimes puts jiggs in an awkward position to approach a lot of characters.

The problem with the throws is that there are literally no decent follow ups. Backthrow is decent because of how good jigg's airgame is, but once again she's really slow and there's no real way to reliably grab other than punishing a shield, which i would rather sh-dair into pound pressure.

 

[drakeirving]

If you're trying to dashgrab from far away or something you're doing it wrong. Grabs are potent mixups and pressure in the form of empty hop grab and so on; they aren't meant as a raw option as you might see from the faster characters. Part of its utility comes entirely from taking advantage of overshielding opponents and conditioning them to not just shield approaches freely, which itself leads to openings as well as potential punish opportunities. Sure, the direct effects are pretty lackluster and could definitely use some good follow-ups, but grabs are still important for good play. Attempting to pressure shields directly is often not good enough alone since OoS options are plentiful throughout the cast. Dair isn't even safe on shield unless you barely get any hits in.

 

[TSKHAN]

If you're trying to dashgrab from far away or something you're doing it wrong. Grabs are potent mixups and pressure in the form of empty hop grab and so on; they aren't meant as a raw option as you might see from the faster characters. Part of its utility comes entirely from taking advantage of overshielding opponents and conditioning them to not just shield approaches freely, which itself leads to openings as well as potential punish opportunities. Sure, the direct effects are pretty lackluster and could definitely use some good follow-ups, but grabs are still important for good play. Attempting to pressure shields directly is often not good enough alone since OoS options are plentiful throughout the cast. Dair isn't even safe on shield unless you barely get any hits in.

Grabs are obviously decent if the situation arises (This is true for LITERALLY everyone) but it's a situation you don't want to be in in the first place.

If you're in the position for a grab, you're generally in a bad position in the first place. This is because her close up ground game is so terribly bad compared to pretty much everyone in the game. If we had something we can use to go into a grab it'd be fine, but we can't safely put ourselves in the position for a grab. Even if we did, a spot dodge would be devastating while there are many other safer spacing options.

The only situations i can think of where you aren't in a bad position is after you shield an attack or they shield your jab. I'll admit that makes it a good mixup then but the throws themselves are still subpar.

I just don't see why i would ever be on the ground next to my opponent otherwise.

If the question is what i think of jigg's grab game, my answer is "Her grab game is bad."

Every character enjoys getting a throw off if the situation arises, to have a good grab game you have to be able to put yourself in a situation for a grab and/or follow up a grab really well. Jigglypuff is far below average on both of those conditions so i'd say her grab game is bad.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Keep in mind that Jigglypuff's meta isn't revolved around grabs or being on the ground, it's overwhelming opponents in the air. Her throws are meant to be "once in a while" things. That's why all of them do at least 10%. If you're grabbing that much with Jigglypuff. You're doing something wrong.

 

[TSKHAN]

Keep in mind that Jigglypuff's meta isn't revolved around grabs or being on the ground, it's overwhelming opponents in the air. Her throws are meant to be "once in a while" things. That's why all of them do at least 10%. If you're grabbing that much with Jigglypuff. You're doing something wrong.

That's literally true for everyone.

However unlike most other characters, being in the position for a grab is generally bad for jiggs and her grabs are also basically useless other than some dmg.

You asked what people thought of jigg's grab game, not whether a grab every once in a while is good.

Jigg's grab game is far far below average.

If you can get a grab off then of course its not bad, but that's true for LITERALLY EVERY CHARACTER IN THE GAME.

EDIT: Seems to be a misunderstanding, go to my next reply for a better summarized response

 

[Duplighost]

That's literally true for everyone.

Not quite. In my opinion, characters like Bowser and DK have a better time on the ground rather than focusing on being in the air. In addition, characters like Sheik need grabs at their disposal to execute effective combos. Jigglypuff happens to have an inferior grab range with minimal follow-ups.

However unlike most other characters, being in the position for a grab is generally bad for jiggs and her grabs are also basically useless other than some dmg.

I do not necessarily think they're bad, but definitely not great. I see your opinion on Jigglypuff's combo potential after a grab/throw, but that does justify that her grabs are useless. You bring up a good point though.

You asked what people thought of jigg's grab game, not whether a grab every once in a while is good.

If it is to my knowledge, "grab game" covers a very general discussion. I think deliberating when a grab is a good idea is conductive to the topic.

 

[MarioMeteor]

That's literally true for everyone.

It literally isn't. Luigi's meta is completely revolved around grabs. If you approach Luigi with the same mindset as Jigglypuff or vice-versa, you will quickly find your **** completely wrecked.

 

[TSKHAN]

Not quite. In my opinion, characters like Bowser and DK have a better time on the ground rather than focusing on being in the air. In addition, characters like Sheik need grabs at their disposal to execute effective combos. Jigglypuff happens to have an inferior grab range with minimal follow-ups.

I do not necessarily think they're bad, but definitely not great. I see your opinion on Jigglypuff's combo potential after a grab/throw, but that does justify that her grabs are useless. You bring up a good point though.

If it is to my knowledge, "grab game" covers a very general discussion. I think deliberating when a grab is a good idea is conductive to the topic.

It literally isn't. Luigi's meta is completely revolved around grabs. If you approach Luigi with the same mindset as Jigglypuff or vice-versa, you will quickly find your **** completely wrecked.

Okay i formatted it wrong. I didn't mean the air game or that grabs are good only every once in a while.

I meant:
Every character benefits a bit from being able to grab. Getting a little benefit doesn't make a characters grab game good. For the Grab Game to be good, you need to have either a good way to set up grabs or a good reason to throw (Combos for example).

Jigglypuff cannot get into position for a grab without putting herself into a bad situation, She has no combos, no kill throws, and every throw puts her in a neutral/awkard position unless it's a backthrow off the edge vs certain characters.

The only reason to grab with jigglypuff is to put space between yourself and the opponent because being in a situation where you're able to grab in the first place is bad.

Even then there are often easier ways to get out of the situation that don't leave you vulnerable to a spot dodge or a grab because jigglypuff's ground speed and grab range/speed is terrible.

Jigglypuff's grab and throws are terrible in comparison to nearly every other character. Therefore her grab game is bad.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I meant:
Every character benefits a bit from being able to grab. Getting a little benefit doesn't make a characters grab game good. For the Grab Game to be good, you need to have either a good way to set up grabs or a good reason to throw (Combos for example).

Jigglypuff cannot get into position for a grab without putting herself into a bad situation, She has no combos, no kill throws, and every throw puts her in a neutral/awkard position unless it's a backthrow off the edge vs certain characters.

The only reason to grab with jigglypuff is to put space between yourself and the opponent because being in a situation where you're able to grab in the first place is bad.

Even then there are often easier ways to get out of the situation that don't leave you vulnerable to a spot dodge or a grab because jigglypuff's ground speed and grab range/speed is terrible.

Jigglypuff's grab and throws are terrible in comparison to nearly every other character. Therefore her grab game is bad.

I'm sorry, could you make it a little bolder, I don't think you got your point across. Now I think you fail to understand two things: One, I'm not calling Jigglypuff's grab game good, nor am I calling it bad. I can definitely see why one would call it bad, but your reasons for it aren't convincing. Two, it is true that Jigglypuff's grab game would be considered bad if her character was revolved around being on the ground, which it isn't. What I'm saying is that for a character who spends very little of her time on the ground, Jigglypuff's grab game is rather acceptable.

 

[Zegend]

Gosh, why are we still arguing about this
Yes, jiggs' throws are sub-par, and her grab range is pretty bad compared to other characters, but if you can manage to get a grab you've easily got 14+% from pummel(s) + throw. It's also good for punishing shielding opponents, a much better punish than Pound in my opinion, seeing as it only does about 50% of shield damage and your opponent must have something wrong with his brain if you actually manage to break their shield with it
Okay, you can all stop now

 

[MarioMeteor]

Gosh, why are we still arguing about this

Because it's kind of the point of this thread. I didn't name it "Jigglypuff's Grab Game" because I wanted instructions on how to play the piano, I wanted to know what people's thoughts on her grab game was. Eventually, two opinions are going to differ, that's inevitable.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Gosh, why are we still arguing about this
Yes, jiggs' throws are sub-par, and her grab range is pretty bad compared to other characters, but if you can manage to get a grab you've easily got 14+% from pummel(s) + throw. It's also good for punishing shielding opponents, a much better punish than Pound in my opinion, seeing as it only does about 50% of shield damage and your opponent must have something wrong with his brain if you actually manage to break their shield with it
Okay, you can all stop now

Uh even if someone's shield gets broken due to pound that's a rude way to describe that person,
Her grab game is really only good for damage, 1 or 2 pummels and a throw is pretty much 15%
Yea her terrible ground game, grab, speed and slow pummel, no followup throws, no true KO throw, only 1 good throw to get people offstage.......yea her grab game is on the worser side.

 

[TSKHAN]

I'm sorry, could you make it a little bolder, I don't think you got your point across. Now I think you fail to understand two things: One, I'm not calling Jigglypuff's grab game good, nor am I calling it bad. I can definitely see why one would call it bad, but your reasons for it aren't convincing. Two, it is true that Jigglypuff's grab game would be considered bad if her character was revolved around being on the ground, which it isn't. What I'm saying is that for a character who spends very little of her time on the ground, Jigglypuff's grab game is rather acceptable.

You asked what people thought about jigglypuff's ground game and each time I answered you rebutted about an additional comment I had rather than arguing against my main point. If you're going to ignore a point until someone makes it more clear, then criticize it without giving a good reason other than a statement, don't ask a question in the first place.

1. You didn't give any reasons why my arguments aren't convincing, you simply stated that they aren't. Leading me to ask, what is your criterion for a good grab game?

2. My definition of a good grab game is a character that can utilize their grabs and throws better than the average character. Whether you're an aerial or ground character doesn't matter. A character like Jigglypuff who has problems with both initiating a grab and following it up does not have a good grab game.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

You asked what people thought about jigglypuff's ground game and each time I answered you rebutted about an additional comment I had rather than arguing against my main point. If you're going to ignore a point until someone makes it more clear, then criticize it without giving a good reason other than a statement, don't ask a question in the first place.

1. You didn't give any reasons why my arguments aren't convincing, you simply stated that they aren't. Leading me to ask, what is your criterion for a good grab game?

2. My definition of a good grab game is a character that can utilize their grabs and throws better than the average character. Whether you're an aerial or ground character doesn't matter. A character like Jigglypuff who has problems with both initiating a grab and following it up does not have a good grab game.

Yep that's already enough to convince most people
Besides, what good are they overall besides DMG? But even then characters with better grabs can get follow ups that do overall more damage, soooooooo..........yea its pretty bad
You know, there should be a thread that actually rates every characters grabs in order from best, to worst.
I think you should it, you'd be awesome.

 

[MarioMeteor]

You asked what people thought about jigglypuff's ground game and each time I answered you rebutted about an additional comment I had rather than arguing against my main point. If you're going to ignore a point until someone makes it more clear, then criticize it without giving a good reason other than a statement, don't ask a question in the first place.

1. You didn't give any reasons why my arguments aren't convincing, you simply stated that they aren't. Leading me to ask, what is your criterion for a good grab game?

2. My definition of a good grab game is a character that can utilize their grabs and throws better than the average character. Whether you're an aerial or ground character doesn't matter. A character like Jigglypuff who has problems with both initiating a grab and following it up does not have a good grab game.

Bull****. Your main point was that Jigglypuff's grab game sucked, and I told you why I thought that was a rather irrational and bold statement. I've given you quite a few good reasons, if you're actually going to sit there and say I didn't, you're leading me to believe that you can't read. I base the strength of a grab game on how well it cooperates with the characters playstyle, which is why I say Jigglypuff, a character not focused on grabs, has a subpar grab game. Not horrible, not great. I think that's a reasonable conclusion, don't you?

You know, there should be a thread that actually rates every characters grabs in order from best, to worst.

That's actually not a bad idea. Someone should get on that.

 

[Psymon]

Grabs are only good to rack up percentage. They don't combo into anything, and they don't kill until around 160% or something stupidly high.

If opponent is shield-happy - bait their shield, then grab.

If someone is overly-aggressive - shield-grab.

Never use it in the neutral, as you need to be patient and keep your spacing on point at all times (her little arms aren't going to save you from taking an F-tilt to the face).

 

[MarioMeteor]

How exactly does Jigglypuff grab anything? It doesn't have any fingers... Is Jigglypuff secretly a Psychic type?

 

[Psymon]

My girlfriend actually drew my avatar (and she may have used another image as a template), but it shows Jiggs holding the marker pen she carried in the anime. Tentacle-esc...no comment.

 

[MarioMeteor]

So Jigglypuff is the first triple-type in Pokémon history... That explains everything. As a side note, I wish Jigglypuff had her microphone marker in some fashion. Imagine how funny it would be if her forward tilt was her poking you with her marker.

 

[Psymon]

So Jigglypuff is the first triple-type in Pokémon history... That explains everything. As a side note, I wish Jigglypuff had her microphone marker in some fashion. Imagine how funny it would be if her forward tilt was her poking you with her marker.

No idea why it wasn't her final Smash. She could sing with a microphone, everyone, sleeps, she draws on them, then kicks 'em into the sunset.

...or, you know, just grow really big and do sweet FA...

 

[MarioMeteor]

No idea why it wasn't her final Smash. She could sing with a microphone, everyone, sleeps, she draws on them, then kicks 'em into the sunset.

...or, you know, just grow really big and do sweet FA...

I like Puff Up. I think it fits having Jigglypuff do something really goofy for its Final Smash. It's funny that they took something that was a little gag in the anime and made it an entire move.

 

[Psymon]

I like Puff Up. I think it fits having Jigglypuff do something really goofy for its Final Smash. It's funny that they took something that was a little gag in the anime and made it an entire move.

But the tribal drawings haha. Nah it is cool, I get that. Just seemed like a very odd choice to me from the start.

...but then, so does dying instantly from a shield-break...

 

[MarioMeteor]

But the tribal drawings haha. Nah it is cool, I get that. Just seemed like a very odd choice to me from the start.

...but then, so does dying instantly from a shield-break...

Of course it's odd, everything about Jigglypuff is odd, that's why I love her.
I always thought the reason she goes flying from a shield break is because she's a balloon, so it's kinda like a balloon popping. It's still stupid, but it somewhat makes sense.