Is there any benefit to playing against CPUs?

[BlueDaruma888]

So I've been playing this game for a while. Rather more specifically, I've been playing this game against CPU opponents, and I've gotten a bit stuck on how I can improve/ be consistent. The few times I've gone online has resulted in extreme lag, and other times disconnection, so I've been trying to avoid that until my wired adapter finally comes in, which will hopefully fix some of the problem.

I've heard a lot about how playing against CPUs locks you into certain habits (I've gotten to the point where I can beat Level 8 CPUs consistently (with the characters that I use frequently anyway), and Level 9s every so often given that my punishes/ grabs are on point) but I find it hard to believe that there isn't anything that I can try to hone given my limited resources (aside from the basics, of course). Obviously, it'd be preferable if I can get experience against actual people, and I'm hoping all of that can change fairly soon.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

There really isn't any benefit from fighting CPUs, as it's not like facing a human player. Human players don't have the reflexes that a level 9 CPU has, which means that even someone like a level 9 Jigglypuff can mess up Sheik quite hard.

 

[BlueDaruma888]

There really isn't any benefit from fighting CPUs, as it's not like facing a human player. Human players don't have the reflexes that a level 9 CPU has, which means that even someone like a level 9 Jigglypuff can mess up Sheik quite hard.

I was afraid of that... the first time I actually won against a Level 9 was after returning from a full day of playing at a friend's house. First time after playing against CPUs for a couple of months as well; my reflexes overall were significantly better.

That's unfortunate Guess I won't be having the real smash experience until I get to play against people more frequently.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

CPUs don't exactly have the intelligence of a human player either. They sometimes SD themselves when the SD is completely avoidable.

 

[BlueDaruma888]

CPUs don't exactly have the intelligence of a human player either. They sometimes SD themselves when the SD is completely avoidable.

I've been unfortunate (or fortunate? haha) enough to not have seen that yet, but there are certainly some CPUs that tend to be "stronger opponents", although it's probably just their given moveset at hand. ie: Ness/ Lucas will constantly try to hit you with PK Thunder 2 while on stage, raw Falcon/Warlock Punches when you're nowhere in range, etc.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Another amusing moment is seeing Bowser Jr. use Koopa Meteor whenever he's nowhere near a grabbable ledge. Clown Kart Dash and Koopa Drift can both help his recovery if his up special is set to Koopa Meteor after all.

And of course, Koopa Meteor is counter bait, which can give you an easy KO if you're using the right fighter.

 

[BlueDaruma888]

On that note, would amiibos possibly be "better" practice partners then? I know that they deal more damage and knockback, even without equipment, but since you technically "train" them to adapt to your playstyle, could they potentially work? Or do they, like CPUs, also read your inputs?

Granted, you'd still technically only be playing against "yourself" rather than a multitude of other players/ playstyles...

 

[FamilyTeam]

Yes, CPUs are really wonky and should really only be used to try new techs or to get used to a new character. Hell I'd only recommend you training against LVL8 if you fall into the second category, you should still try to do new techs against actual people.
For example: I can Shino-Stall perfectly in Melee, and Shino-Stall makes nearly all human players hesitant to approach you. CPUs don't fell intimidated, though, which is why they just slowly walk up to you and tilt you. CPUs just aren't affected by mindgame techs period, if you Dash-Dance against a CPU in any Smash game, they'll just ignore it completely.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Sadly, amiibo don't keep your training lessons once they've reached level 30+. My Mewtwo amiibo began spamming smash attacks, which was something that I hardly do whenever I use Mewtwo.

It should also be noted that attacks that would be considered safe against human players likely won't be safe against CPUs, which means that even Bouncing Fish is not a foolproof attack against them.

 

[BlueDaruma888]

Another amusing moment is seeing Bowser Jr. use Koopa Meteor whenever he's nowhere near a grabbable ledge. Clown Kart Dash and Koopa Drift can both help his recovery if his up special is set to Koopa Meteor after all.

And of course, Koopa Meteor is counter bait, which can give you an easy KO if you're using the right fighter.

Oh geez haha. Better cross Bowser Jr. off the list too

Sadly, amiibo don't keep your training lessons once they've reached level 30+. My Mewtwo amiibo began spamming smash attacks, which was something that I hardly do whenever I use Mewtwo.

Ahhhh really? My sole amiibo also happens to be a Mewtwo, and upon reaching level 50, I've been wondering why he hasn't been using Shadow Ball at all... Oh well. Worth a shot.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Oh geez haha. Better cross Bowser Jr. off the list too

That's IF Bowser Jr. has Koopa Meteor though. Otherwise, you'd have to find some other way to put him away. And of course, if you don't have a counter move, then you can't really use Koopa Meteor's flaws to your advantage.

 

[FamilyTeam]

It should also be noted that attacks that would be considered safe against human players likely won't be safe against CPUs, which means that even Bouncing Fish is not a foolproof attack against them.

I think the problem with both that and mindgame techs is that CPUs aren't human. Simple as that. They don't feel, they don't fear, they don't get cocky. For the CPUs, dash dancing is just you repeatedly pressing directions, not your character skipping from side to side to confuse someone as to which direction they'll go and when.

 

[BlueDaruma888]

That's IF Bowser Jr. has Koopa Meteor though. Otherwise, you'd have to find some other way to put him away. And of course, if you don't have a counter move, then you can't really use Koopa Meteor's flaws to your advantage.

Oh. I didn't actually realize that wasn't the name of his default; don't have a lot of Bowser Jr. background. Although I suppose I wouldn't be too surprised if I saw Abandon Ship used on stage either.

I think the problem with both that and mindgame techs is that CPUs aren't human. Simple as that. They don't feel, they don't fear, they don't get cocky. For the CPUs, dash dancing is just you repeatedly pressing directions, not your character skipping from side to side to confuse someone as to which direction they'll go and when.

Makes sense. I haven't had a whole lot of proper baiting/ punish experience as a result of fighting them either. They just sorta do what they wanna do.

 

[C0rvus]

I used to think playing against computer players was useless and even harmful to your gameplay. And it can be, but as with any form of practice, it needs a purpose; a specific goal. I heard this one in a post-event interview with @TheReflexWonder where he was talking about not having many players near where he lived, so he practiced a lot on his own.

Mostly, training mode was where his time was spent (and it shows, check out his YouTube channel). But he said he would use level 9 CPUs to practice spacing and counterpoking. Consider the fact that the AI has impeccable defense; they perfect shield a lot. If you can land hits on these guys without getting punished, you can likely do it on an actual player.

It's just one thing, but its there. I think CPUs DI to some extent, so you could practice just executing combos or something. Just don't do it too much. Nothing can replace playing another human. The game begins when both players start thinking, expecting things, and reacting to one another.

 

[MockRock]

There actually are certain things that CPU opponents can help you with: spacing, combo percentages, timing, etc. They don't, however, teach you how to properly play neutral, how to spot the patterns of different people, how to use mindgames and mixups... there's a huge amount of stuff that you miss out on by playing against a CPU. That being said, it's not entirely a waste of time.

 

[Axel311]

There really isn't any benefit from fighting CPUs, as it's not like facing a human player.

I disagree. I've gotten way better at neutral by playing level 9s. As long as you're aware of the CPU's lack of adaptation and don't cheese them you're completely fine. You also must play real people regularly as well so you don't develop bad habits.

Level 9s are frame perfect, that means they're an excellent way to learn how to space in neutral because level 9s will powershield everything and punish anything that's not a safe poke.

It's very character dependent though. For some characters level 9s will be useless. My main has short range and relies on safe pokes in netural so CPUs are good practice. But CPUs won't be near as good of practice for a character that is projectile based, for example. Or a character like that relies on an item, because CPUs won't adapt to your use of it.

 

[GerudoKong]

Definitely helps you learn to react to rolls better. Level 9 Cpus roll a crap-ton, and usually know how to avoid getting punished for it. So roll punishing gets a bit easier IMO if you're used to playing cpus.

 

[BlueDaruma888]

Thanks for all of the replies everybody! I really agree C0rvus that there needs to be some end goal to all of this. Fortunately, since has so much tech/ punishing that I have yet to master gameplay, at least I know that there'll probably always be something for me to work towards, even with just having CPUs as opponents. I'll definitely try to get some person to person experience in soon though.

*rushes to mailroom expectedly hoping that adapter has finally arrived. Returns downtrodden.

 

[MarMarTheGreat]

Hell no I decided to try to learn from Level 9 CPU and all I learned was being forced to use tactics that would be terrible online but good against CPU

 

[marteen_]

Well.. if you're someone who uses Mii fighters..

 

[DPKdebator]

I prefer to play against a nice mix of CPUs and human players. Level 9 CPUs especially have perfect reaction times, making it very difficult to hit them in the air. When you play against a human, your aerial skills will be better acquainted towards someone who airdodges a lot. It isn't good to play against CPUs too much and hardly play against humans, since the CPUs do not use many techniques that a real player uses frequently.

 

[gamecubeguy214]

So from what some of you guys are saying, level 9 CPUs are harder to fight than tournament players?

 

[zzmorg82]

So from what some of you guys are saying, level 9 CPUs are harder to fight than tournament players?

CPUs are able to perfect shield and airdodge as soon as your inputs are entered majority of the time, but they can still be exploited, so no. You'll get better mileage from playing real players, but for learning fundamentals and certain tactics, then playing CPUs isn't entirely bad.

 

[BigBisharp]

CPUs aren't terrible, but after playing online, it's so much better to learn from actual people. Sure, you get the occasional spammer or namecaller, but you progress. Beating the same computer over and over again may feel like you're getting better, but in reality, you're not gaining that much ground.

And yes, the Lv. 9 CPUs can install some bad habits into your brain. If you do happen to catch yourself using CPU tactics, well, to quote Yoda, "you must unlearn what you have learned".

Good luck with your practicing, but don't take For Glory results too seriously!

 

[FamilyTeam]

Oh. I didn't actually realize that wasn't the name of his default; don't have a lot of Bowser Jr. background. Although I suppose I wouldn't be too surprised if I saw Abandon Ship used on stage either.



Makes sense. I haven't had a whole lot of proper baiting/ punish experience as a result of fighting them either. They just sorta do what they wanna do.

I'm sorry, what is wrong about this post? Why does it have a warning?

 

[BlueDaruma888]

I'm sorry, what is wrong about this post? Why does it have a warning?

I posted two different replies in the same post. Shoulda read the rules more carefully. No biggy though.

 

[KirbCider]

I believe one can benefit to some degree from CPUs; however you can never beat going against actual players.

CPUs can help you learn, especially if you're new to the game. They can also be useful when it comes to practicing combos and getting used to doing them depending on the level. Once you've gotten used to doing the combos just try to apply it to human players and adjust accordingly. It's what I did, and am still doing with Bayonetta. Been using CPUs to learn her combos, and going against real players to further help me preform and adjust them as needed. Honestly, that alone has helped me quite a lot when using her in general.

I've learned to time the combos better, as well as figure out what combos work on what characters (given character weights and all). CPU's still can't beat learning from actual humans though, so I guess what I'm saying is yes it can be beneficial; however not on it's own.