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Is Marth a good character for beginners?

D

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I'm introducing a friend to competitive Melee, and he's looking to choose a main. He seems rather keen on Marth, but I'm afraid that he might develop some bad habits with the character. I've suggested that maybe he play Captain Falcon first, to at least start learning basic tech, gameplay mechanics, and combos. (He has not practiced tech yet, plus I main Falcon so it would be a little easier for me.) I know that Marth in his own right can teach you a lot about spacing and such, but I would like to hear your opinions before sitting down and teaching him the game. Any advice is much appreciated.
 

OGS GOSU

Smash Rookie
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Feb 4, 2016
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2
I believe that marth is a fine/great starting character, he has a great wave dash and has easy to learn combos, his grab is also great. As an ex-marth main I think that he's really strong and an excellent starting character. I only dropped him because he isn't as aggressive as spacies.
 

OGS GOSU

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
2
I believe that marth is a fine/great starting character, he has a great wave dash and has easy to learn combos, his grab is also great. As an ex-marth main I think that he's really strong and an excellent starting character. I only dropped him because he isn't as aggressive as spacies.
Side note, have him figure out a playstyle he likes, because character is deffinitely decided by how you want to play.
 

Rpggames77

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
324
Marth is a great starting character. He helps develope the fundamentals of the game, but like GOSU said, make him figure out his play style. Even though he may like marth if his play style doesn't agree with marth then I would recommend a different character. You should also have him watch the super smash academy marth guide, it's good for beginners.
 
D

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I suppose my wording might have been a bit confusing originally. What I was really trying to ask was:

"Would it be a good idea to use Captain Falcon as TOOL to learn all the core tech every player needs to know (Dash dancing, SHFFLC, Wavedashing etc), introduce simple flow chart combos, and proper mind set to a green horn player?"

My sort of theory is that by starting with Marth, you have a ton of options and tools in your move set that you won't be able to use optimally until you develop a certain grasp of the game. Some of which are easy to abuse, such as F-Smash. If I had to bet, the F-smash habit would be beaten out of a Falcon rather than a Marth starting off, just because of how much more likely you would whiff the attack.
 
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ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
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Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
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College Park, MD
Puff and Sheik are recommended for beginners. They enable one to learn the game acutely without requiring tremendous amounts of technical skill to support their control of the character.
 

Stride

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
680
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North-west England (near Manchester/Liverpool)
I suppose my wording might have been a bit confusing originally. What I was really trying to ask was:

"Would it be a good idea to use Captain Falcon as TOOL to learn all the core tech every player needs to know (Dash dancing, SHFFLC, Wavedashing etc), introduce simple flow chart combos, and proper mind set to a green horn player?"

My sort of theory is that by starting with Marth, you have a ton of options and tools in your move set that you won't be able to use optimally until you develop a certain grasp of the game. Some of which are easy to abuse, such as F-Smash. If I had to bet, the F-smash habit would be beaten out of a Falcon rather than a Marth starting off, just because of how much more likely you would whiff the attack.
Like I was saying, it's the same with Falcon. No-one is playing totally optimally or without exploitable habits no matter how good they are, never mind when they've just started.

Lots of scrubby habits (or if not able to be classified as habits as such, then at least gameplay/strategic flaws which are present in habits) are fundamentally the same across characters. To name a few: not respecting crouch-cancel, neglecting movement and focusing on spamming hitboxes, relying on guessing rather than reaction or actual prediction (because you're coincidentally rewarded for it working sometimes so the habit is reinforced), and generally doing things that you know are bad or at least not the best because it's easier than the other options.

As Falcon this expresses itself as things like running around spamming full jump/drift forwards nair, fishing for easy guaranteed grab combos/kill confirms like down throw knee and up throw up air strings (which compensate for poor understanding of punish game), spamming Gentleman after every unsafe approach or every tech (stunting the development of better approaches or tech options since the opponent not being able to deal with the Gentleman lets you get away with the bad ones), and randomly stomping or Raptor boosting (in both tech chases and neutral; it's especially bad for Falcon since those moves are so high reward).

Some character-specific bad habits will be corrected early on while playing against low level players, but some of them will go a very long time before they are or require relatively high-level experience before they're exploited enough to incentivise it (or at least bring attention to the need for it), especially once you start to get into more nebulous things (an example being the difference between the habit of spamming forward smash as Marth and the habits of excessively or mindlessly doing things which give up stage control to fish for throw gimps by the ledge as Marth). All characters create a range of bad habits from easy to fix to hard to fix. They also all teach a range of useful things. The important thing is that there's they're all still Melee characters and the game can be learned though any of them; it's not like only playing a certain character will leave you completely unable to understand a major area of the game (at least not when you're at a reasonable level of play), even if you may not understand it as well as you would when learning through another character.

Also, you can change mains or play multiple characters whenever you want, so the decision of a first character really isn't important in the long term. The player's opinions and priorities will change a lot. Honestly, I'm inclined to believe that character choice at this level is mostly arbitrary, considering that you're not exactly going to be learning character specific things at this level that you couldn't pick up near-immediately at a higher level. The character just acts as a way to play the game, and you need to choose someone, but the things you're learning which are important for the long term aren't really anything to do with the character. You need to pick up some character-specific things to be able to play, but which character's they are doesn't really matter.
 
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Klemes

Smash Journeyman
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Jul 4, 2015
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236
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France
Short answer : yes. Marth is a great starting character. Shiek is awsome as well.
Peach and Puff could be fine, but they're more unique characters and won't teach him the "core mechanics" of Melee as well.
Avoid Fox Falco Falcon : too much SDs, harder recoveries, harder to control their movement, harder and more punishing lcancels, they're just rough for a true beginner if you care about getting him in comfortably.
 

Dr. Bread

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
121
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Norcal(humboldt county)
falcon is a pretty good suggestion for beginners, but honestly the main way to prevent someone from developing bad habits is punishing them yourself.

falcon can give some bad habits too though since he has certain very gratifying hits and you dont want people to fish for them.

i guess the best character for beginners is really whatever character teaches somebody the most.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Yes. You'll learn a lot from Marth as a beginner, and he's not too difficult to control and kill other beginners with.
 

The Young Izzy Iz

Smash Apprentice
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Aug 6, 2014
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146
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Charleston, SC
Definitely been said before but I just want to reiterate that playing Marth well is essentially just understanding the basics of the game to a fair degree. Everything good about Marth requires you to have the fundamentals down. F-Smash requires reading the opponent, Dair spike requires recognizing DI in, some of his better neutral options are simple things like SHFFL'd Fair, and Marth's playstyle incentives the grab which can lead to learning about tech-chases.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
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College Park, MD
A zealous beginner could definitely use Marth as a catalyst to learning a lot about the game. He's the sort of character that forces you to fix your most glaring problems, and in a hurry.
 
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